Political Science - Fall 2011 Cycle

[RWBG]

I've always been a bit skeptical of the merits of the locavore movement. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it, GopherGrad.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2011/LuskNorwoodlocavore.html

Also, I'm really jealous of those of you who have eaten at El Bulli, Noma, and the likes. I spend a large proportion of my disposable income on food, but my travel budget in the past few years has been limited to places I've been going for debating tournaments.

[explodingstressball]

I've always been a bit skeptical of the merits of the locavore movement. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it, GopherGrad.

Can I ask where your skepticism comes from?

[Subsonic Bass]

I see that two rejected for Northwestern have come in via their website. I have yet to hear from them. Anyone get an acceptance?

[RWBG]

Can I ask where your skepticism comes from?

Briefly, I think that the local food movement has two main components: (1) keep money local, and (2) environmental externalities. I think the local money argument ends up being similar to anti-outsourcing, anti-trade arguments that don't take into account principles of comparative advantage. And I think "local food" as a response to environmental externalities is often misdirected. There are a lot of circumstances where inefficient distribution networks of smaller local producers can actually increase the environmental externalities of locally-sourced food. Additionally, there are circumstances where growing conditions/other factors can actually make shipping in food more environmentally friendly than producing it locally; an example that I think was given is that it is less environmentally damaging to ship in lamb from Australia then for a number of European producers to raise it themselves.

In terms of the whole health/taste stuff, I think it just suffices to say that stuff isn't universally true, so it's not really an argument for local food generally.

[secretly_yes]

I am making a pitch for my town: DC has excellent food. I have lived here for three and a half years and found the food here wonderful. There's farmers' markets if you are a talented cook (I am not) and lots of options for the culinary-ly challenged, like myself.

In case any of you end up coming to DC, my favorite restaurant here is Founding Farmers. It's a block from the World Bank in the Foggy Bottom neighborhood. They get all organic, fresh food and they make everything from scratch- even ketchup! It's owned by the North Dakota Farmers Union or something like that. It's a little expensive but definitely worth it.

[explodingstressball]

In terms of the whole health/taste stuff, I think it just suffices to say that stuff isn't universally true, so it's not really an argument for local food generally.

I salute you for applying political science principles to food!

I am a big supporter of the local food movement because of its focus on ingredients. While taste is entirely subjective, I love learning what the farms around me produce and what talented chefs are able to do with what is around them. I think it forces the attention away from crazy ingredients ("Libyan chicken feet with Bolivian foie gras sauced with Persian saffron and Indian berries") and puts it where — in my opinion — it should be: on the food, the flavor, and the texture. I also think it makes it easier to compare the flavor of ingredients and find things that I like more than others. I have not had enough of the extremely exotic foods to often make qualitative judgements about their preparation or the freshness of the ingredients.

I also am a fan of the local food movement for focusing on more traditional ingredients and heirlooms. While this can be taken to the extreme (anyone see the first episode of Portlandia?), I find that there is really something to be said for using traditional ingredients in traditional recipes.

[explodingstressball]

In case any of you end up coming to DC, my favorite restaurant here is Founding Farmers.

That place opened right after I moved out of DC. I really wanted to try it! Glad to hear it is good. But in general, I didn't find much good food in the District itself, but a lot of awesome food in Virginia.

[JPhoenix]

Im losing patience. I notice Ohio State, UCLA, Wisconsin, and now Northwestern are starting to give decisions. I still have yet to hear from these schools and have already been turned down by Michigan. Sick of checking my email and mailbox to see nothing. Basically like many I am sick of waiting. If they want to reject me they should just tell me now. Im a little crabby today. Always waking up tired and have school work due.

[EliAle]

I see that two rejected for Northwestern have come in via their website. I have yet to hear from them. Anyone get an acceptance?

Not I.

[yinumzhou`]

Im losing patience. I notice Ohio State, UCLA, Wisconsin, and now Northwestern are starting to give decisions. I still have yet to hear from these schools and have already been turned down by Michigan. Sick of checking my email and mailbox to see nothing. Basically like many I am sick of waiting. If they want to reject me they should just tell me now. Im a little crabby today. Always waking up tired and have school work due.

Are you sure Wisconsin is sending out decisions?

[Rose]

I see that two rejected for Northwestern have come in via their website. I have yet to hear from them. Anyone get an acceptance?

I haven't heard anything yet either but you nearly gave me a heart attack. I checked the website but it still just says "submitted."

[GopherGrad]

I've always been a bit skeptical of the merits of the locavore movement. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it, GopherGrad.

It has merits. The biggest one is taste. Chomp into an heirloom tomato grown in your backyard, then try one of the chemically ripened ones at a mega-mart.

It's not true of every food, but lots of meats and produce don't travel well, or at least lose something in the preparation, that's not a concern at a (real) farmer's market. I live in Minnesota, and it's very expensive to get, say, fresh halibut or scallops. In general, then, I pick up fresh trout and walleye because it's either cheaper or tastier than the coastal seafood on offer. That said, you have to occasionally splurge for the halibut.

"Getting to know your farmer" is a mixed bag, too. Might not be so important with raspberries, but there is an advantage with other products. I buy whole lambs from a farm half an hour away and butcher them myself. (Not the killing part, just the stripping them into proper cuts.) Trusting the farmer allows me to preserve and store the meat differently. I use pretty much everything, including bones for stocks and glaces. That saves money and makes some extra-amazing food.

Trust is extra important when eating from small farms. My GF works in sourcing organics for a major food corp. and complains that small farms often lack quality control and safety standards to the point that large manufacturers won't work with them. To really leverage the advantage of seeing the farm, you need to know something about quality audits. I'm lucky enough to have someone with that experience in my life, but otherwise it's hard to know what a farmer could hide from me.

In terms of energy, I'm skeptical, too. Industrial ecology is a tough subject, but your link's discussion of comparative advantage is persuasive. There is also something to be said for mass production and the efficiency of industrial fertilizers and pesticides.

Locavore eating isn't exactly like organic, but a lot of the same arguments apply. In general, the cost of an item reflects the total energy inputs required to make it (including, in some cases, raising a person with expertise, etc.), so sky-high costs for organic (and sometimes local) foods imply that inputs are higher, too. A recent British study showed that organic farming has lower environmental impacts per acre, but not per yield (organics yield less per acre than conventional crops).

There is an argument that the true cost of transport of foods from afar is hidden because we just slurp up hydro-carbons and burn them. In a world without oil, the argument goes, no one in New York could afford to eat California tomatoes. Organic and local farming simply do what everyone will need to do eventually; find non-carbon ways to drive agriculture.

I don't know if I'm sold on that argument. I really think it's impossible to know how the energy breakdown works, and so I don't put much stock in locavore ecology arguments: except one. My lawn just sits there with nutrients in it. It rains here all the time. If I can grow some of my intake there, I reduce demand for industrial crops and thus reduce pressure on those ecosystems. I think spreading production out would help certain localized ecological disasters (like the salinity of the Murry/Darling in Australia or the water crises in the American West).

Your link might argue that comparative advantage will straighten that out eventually; when the Murray's soil is to salty for wheat, we won't grow it there. But slash-and-burn industrial ag tactics don't feel right to me. If compost from the veggies I consume already can largely refresh the soil to grow new ones, I'm shifting the balance. The system may not be forever sustainable, but it's a lot longer run.

In sum, I look at preachy locavores like I look at preachy Prius drivers. They both ignore the system and thus write off important side-effects of their behavior. What's more, relatively few people actually look into the reality of food supply chains and energy use. Most of those that do (myself included) are hardly bright or well-educated enough to understand what it all means. Pretending it works because it feels nice doesn't mean it works.

Edit:

There are a lot of circumstances where inefficient distribution networks of smaller local producers can actually increase the environmental externalities of locally-sourced food.

I didn't read RWGB's response when I wrote mine, so I missed this. It's completely true. A USDA study suggested that mid-sized firms are often the most ecologically sound; they have well-considered supply chains and transport networks, but still focus on delivering "green" goods.

Otherwise it looks like I fall firmly between stressball and RW.

Edited February 9, 2011 by GopherGrad

[mcmanos]

I haven't heard anything yet either but you nearly gave me a heart attack. I checked the website but it still just says "submitted."

I checked the website too and saw no change. To be honest, I'm suspicious of the Northwestern posts until someone will claim them here. If I recall correctly, they promised answers "by early March", so posting results a month ahead of time sounds strange (until proven otherwise).

[explodingstressball]

In sum, I look at preachy locavores like I look at preachy Prius drivers.

I live in Northern California. Preachy locavores and preachy Prius drivers constitute 80% of my city, and the other 20% are preachy locavore-Prius-driving-raw-fooders.

[JPhoenix]

Are you sure Wisconsin is sending out decisions?

The results page for political science shows some.

[Subsonic Bass]

I checked the website too and saw no change. To be honest, I'm suspicious of the Northwestern posts until someone will claim them here. If I recall correctly, they promised answers "by early March", so posting results a month ahead of time sounds strange (until proven otherwise).

Last year Northwestern posted acceptances by the 4th, and the bulk of their decisions came in by the 9th. I think we are right around that time.

[GopherGrad]

Oh, great.

Now I've got to sweat Berkeley AND Northwestern. Somebody tell me something!!*

*Note: if that something is a rejection, do not tell me.

[explodingstressball]

Now I've got to sweat Berkeley AND Northwestern.

I'm tempted to go over to Berkeley and ask them what's going on myself

[adaptations]

so as we're all playing the waiting game...if some schools aren't sending out notifications (good or bad) until mid-march, when are their accepted students' weekends? do they push all the way up until the weekend before april 15? is it possible that some schools won't have visitations at all?

it seems as if a lot of places are already starting to monopolize weekends in march/april and schools notifying late will be in direct competition with others (even of the same caliber) that have notified earlier and already made travel arrangements for prospective students. (one program requested that i finalize plane reservations today, for example, which seems absurdly early!)

anyone have an idea?

Having gone through this before, I've seen admitted student days range from the first weekend in March to as late as April 6th. If you're lucky enough to have lots of invitations, you probably can't get to all of them since some overlap, but that's a good problem to have.

Best of luck to all!

[JPhoenix]

Do fridays mean rejection days? I notice many get rejected on that day.

[wtncffts]

I posted my Northwestern rejection. First one. Hurts, but not overly despondent.

[Wishing and Hoping]

Im losing patience. I notice Ohio State, UCLA, Wisconsin, and now Northwestern are starting to give decisions. I still have yet to hear from these schools and have already been turned down by Michigan. Sick of checking my email and mailbox to see nothing. Basically like many I am sick of waiting. If they want to reject me they should just tell me now. Im a little crabby today. Always waking up tired and have school work due.

I definitely know what you mean (as I think most of us do). It just bugs me that things are so totally in limbo. I've woken up the last two nights at six in the morning (after dreaming about getting admissions letters, I kid you not) to check my email. But at least it will all be over in a few weeks, and then in the Fall we'll all be in school laughing about this process (probably in between tears at the insane grad student workload, but victory is victory: ).

[GopherGrad]

I posted my Northwestern rejection. First one. Hurts, but not overly despondent.

Sorry, man. You must have other places you felt more strongly about?

BTW, I'd call that you get in somewhere great still. I was right about Tufnel and I'll be right about you.

[GopherGrad]

But at least it will all be over in a few weeks, and then in the Fall we'll all be in school laughing about this process (probably in between tears at the insane grad student workload, but victory is victory).

It's like a pie eating contest where the prize is more pie.

[Rodao]

Do fridays mean rejection days? I notice many get rejected on that day.

We always find it's better to reject people on a

Friday. It's statistically shown that there's less chance of an

incident if we do it at the end of the week.