"Non-Traditional" Grad School Applicants

[decoder]

It's hard to believe I've been out of school long enough to consider myself a "non-traditional applicant," but after reading the other posts in this forum I get the sense that I'm a bit beyond the average age. I'd love to hear from others who are in a similar situation, and get to know what kinds of issues you are dealing with as you're trying to apply to grad school.

As for my own story, I'm thirty years old and hope to pursue a Ph.D. in electrical/computer engineering. I have a masters degree and two bachelors degrees from a relatively average state school, and while I did very well in classes, had teaching experience, and worked at a job most of the way through college, I never had a chance to do academic research. As the first person in my family to graduate from college, I didn't even know what grad school was until I was in college. I applied to Ph.D. programs when I was finishing my M.S. five years ago, but I aimed too high and was disappointed by mostly rejections. I decided to work for a while to save some money and get some experience.

Now, I have a wife, a house, and a decent job in my field, but I still want the Ph.D. and I still want to be in a more research-oriented role. I'm re-taking the GRE next month, and I plan to apply to mostly local schools this coming fall. Once the GRE is out of the way, I've got to get recommendation letters (from whom?), write a statement of purpose, possibly take the CS subject GRE, and all the while hope that my work experience somehow makes up for my lack of publications and academic research.

I've had informal discussions with my employer and they've expressed some willingness to help pay for the Ph.D., but with the stipulation that I study what they want me to study and that I stay with them for some amount of time. Sounds like a great opportunity, but for me the reason to pursue the Ph.D. is the chance to study in depth an area of my field that I'm passionate about. I do what someone else wants me to do at work every day.

So I'm concerned about things like what I'll do with my current job, whether my age/experience will be a liability in applying, how I can get the research experience universities want, and whether it even makes sense with the economy in its current state to leave a well-paying job to pursue a degree that will probably reduce the number of jobs for which I'm qualified. I know at this point that I'm going to have to "settle" for a less prestigious school (because of qualifications as well as geographical location). But I've known for years that I wanted to pursue the Ph.D., and I have to try it again.

So what are your stories? How are other "non-traditional" applications handling the application process? What keeps you motivated?

[UnlikelyGrad]

So I'm concerned about things like what I'll do with my current job, whether my age/experience will be a liability in applying, how I can get the research experience universities want, and whether it even makes sense with the economy in its current state to leave a well-paying job to pursue a degree that will probably reduce the number of jobs for which I'm qualified. I know at this point that I'm going to have to "settle" for a less prestigious school (because of qualifications as well as geographical location). But I've known for years that I wanted to pursue the Ph.D., and I have to try it again.

So what are your stories? How are other "non-traditional" applications handling the application process? What keeps you motivated?

Don't worry about your age. Thirty isn't that old.

Research: what sort of job do you have? Some CS/EE jobs could easily qualify as "research" of a sort, albeit of a non-academic sort. In your shoes I would find two projects I worked on that come the closest to academic research and get LoRs from my supervisors in those projects.

I suggest getting the third LoR from a prof from your master's program, if possible. (How many years has it been since you graduated?)

[decoder]

Thanks, I think that's good advice. It was about five years ago that I finished my masters program, and I've been in touch with some profs since then, so hopefully the LOR won't be any trouble.

[philo-Sophia]

Age and working experience can be an advantage.It depends on how you think of it. IMO,I don't think age is a problem~~

[aginath]

I was 31 when I started applying for grad school and had been out of school for 8 years. I sold my house and gave up a $60K job to move my husband and menagerie of animals 900 miles for grad school.

If you have the opportunity to pursue the degree on someone else's dime, DO IT. One of my friends here is a year further along in our program than I am (and just slightly older than I am). He is married with two beautiful daughters. The Air Force is paying for his PhD. The real perk is that he doesn't have to have an assistantship and is able to focus on getting through the program (doing it in 3 years rather than the typical 4 for our department/program). If your employer is willing to pay for it, then you'll work with them to determine what your job requirements will be while you're in school.

As for the age and experience question, I have classmates who are my age and a few who are 10 years my junior. Age (and any difference) really isn't a problem. My experience and knowledge have helped me in a number of classes where some of my younger colleagues have struggled.

[Golden Monkey]

I started my master's at 40, so I'm pretty "non-traditional." My mom started hers at 50.

I have a bachelor's in mechanical engineering, then went out and worked for many years (doing all kinds of stuff,) got laid off at the age of 38 and realized I was at a complete career standstill. So I started my master's in a "new media" program at 40, got a job with the university, which got me extremely discounted tuition, finished the program at 43, and am now in the "waiting to hear from PhD programs" phase. In my case, both my master's degree and the PhD programs I've applied to are pretty closely related to the line of work I was doing for so many years, which I'm hoping works to my advantage.

Still it was admittedly kind of weird being the same age as most of the faculty.

[emmm]

Another non-traditional applicant here. I guess I'll see how it all works out pretty soon. I have been very pleasantly surprised by how much fun the application process has been so far. I have met a lot of great people while getting myself ready to apply, and have gotten more help, support, and encouragement than I ever expected. So, even if I don't get in anywhere this time 'round, I feel very lucky.

[crayolacat]

BTW, on the "from whom", all of my applicates stated that if you had not been a full-time student for 5+ years (it's been fifteen for me, oh ya) recommendations did not need to be from profs. The downside? Part of the reason I applied to very few programs is that there was no way my business contacts would put up with the standard-sized recommendation process.

[SimilarlyDifferent]

I am considered "nontraditional" in a way, I suppose. I'm 27, and I will be graduating from undergrad in May 2011. I waited to go to college, but it was a great thing that I did. When I was younger, I wasn't at all serious about school and I certainly didn't apply myself. But now? I have a 4.0 GPA, and I have won several awards from my school for academic achievement, etc.

I certainly never thought that I would be applying to grad school, but now that I am, it feels like it is where I should be. The drawbacks are geographical limitations due to family/mortgage/etc. The pros are a stronger sense of what I want to do, and a feeling that my life experiences have led me in this direction.

First post, by the way!

[natsteel]

I am considered "nontraditional" in a way, I suppose. I'm 27, and I will be graduating from undergrad in May 2011. I waited to go to college, but it was a great thing that I did. When I was younger, I wasn't at all serious about school and I certainly didn't apply myself. But now? I have a 4.0 GPA, and I have won several awards from my school for academic achievement, etc.

I certainly never thought that I would be applying to grad school, but now that I am, it feels like it is where I should be. The drawbacks are geographical limitations due to family/mortgage/etc. The pros are a stronger sense of what I want to do, and a feeling that my life experiences have led me in this direction.

First post, by the way!

Welcome, SimilarlyDifferent! My experience has been similar (no pun intended). I'm 35 with a wife and 2 young boys (no mortgage, though). I began undergrad at 31 and my "advanced" age and life experience gave me a focus and determination I certainly didn't have at 18 or even 25.

[Golden Monkey]

Curious to find out, did everyone want to go to grad school earlier in life? If so, what kept you from doing it? I actually wanted to go to grad school before I even finished undergrad. The problem was that I had absolutely no idea how to pay for it. I spent all of my 20s being flat broke and in debt, and all of my 30s getting to where I wasn't anymore. It wasn't until my late 30s that I had enough money put away that I felt comfortable taking the plunge. I actually applied to grad school twice before at the age of 22 and 27, but didn't go because I didn't want to take out a huge loan.

[emmm]

I had thought I'd go to grad school when I was younger, but life took a different path. I guess the idea never completely left my mind. I was sure it was too late at this point, but I found wonderful advisors who convinced me it was still a viable option to consider.

[crayolacat]

I had no interest in grad school at 21. I was in a terrible financial situation and also didn't know whether I could make it in the real world. All my effort went into that, I studied relevant business skills every night after work between anxiety attacks and clawed my way into a really awesome career. And here I am, good bank and ready to do this if I get the opportunity.

[Golden Monkey]

I wonder if there are statistics out about age of grad students vs. percentage who complete their degrees? I guess I could do a web search, but I'm too lazy. Since I just finished my master's at the age of 43 (started at 40,) and would complete a PhD close to 50 (if accepted and funded, which I have not been,) after not being able to go at the ages of 22 and 26, I was thinking of a few things that I think might work in favor of the 44-year-old me, as opposed to the younger version of me:

• Since time passes so quickly at this age (it seemed like it crawled when I was younger,) 4-5 years in a program does not seem like a long time at all.
• I think that at a younger age, I would have grown impatient and wondered if I was missing out on something by not working in industry. After 20 years of industry work, I now know that I'm not.
• My entire reference point for stress and workload has been completely reset by all the industry work. I finished my master's while working full-time at a university job. People often asked me if this was difficult, since almost none of the students worked (even part-time) in the program. I had to reply that if you've been stuck on the other side of the world working 70 hours a week with a client screaming at you, while your employer is going bankrupt so that you don't know whether or not they'll be able to pay for your plane ticket home (just so you can get laid off,) difficulty and stress are relative things.
• If I got into a funded program (my master's was not,) I would think of it as a job. It might be a low-paying job, but it's still a job. As one who has been through numerous downsizings, restructurings, company bankruptcies, layoffs, and one miserable experiment at business ownership, I know that jobs you don't hate that and pay enough for you to survive on are truly precious. I know for certain I didn't think this way when I was 22. If I had been smart enough to get into a funded program at that age (I wasn't even close,) I'm sure I would have done so with some sense of entitlement.

Obviously I have way too much time to think these days, as I wait around for March.

[starmaker]

I consider myself non-traditional, but not in the same way that some of you are.

I got my bachelor's in the traditional way at the traditional age, but in a different field than I'm currently in. I got a job after graduation, and decided that I needed more formal education in the field of the job, so I started taking post-bac classes in my new field after work. Then I decided that I wanted an advanced degree in that field, so I've been working full-time and getting an MS degree part-time. I'll be applying for full-time PhD programs in the fall, and, if all goes well, will matriculate into a PhD program at age 27.

In general, I think being a part-time student/full-time worker is a great way to get a master's degree. It does cause a few issues, though:

- Potential employers sometimes think I'm in an extension school/"night school" program, because they think that's the only way you can get a master's while working full-time. Night school programs are less prestigious, so I have to explain that actually, no, it is the normal degree program, the same one that the full-time students are in.

- I don't know very many of my classmates, since I'm not on campus that much, which makes it harder to find people for group projects.

- Since I can't spend my whole day on campus, it's harder to get to know the professors, which means that I have to be more resourceful about building relationships for recommendations.

[Irishlibra]

Yay! I was so happy to find this thread. I, too, am shockingly "non-traditional" at 27. I graduated with my BA at 21 thinking that I wanted to have a long and fulfilling career. My career has been shaped, molded, refined and honed through my years of working. I am so glad to be applying at this stage in my life. I'm applying with focus, direction and desire.

Also, I have to agree with previous posters in that working hard jobs with stress, low wages, and long hours really gives a person perspective.

All the best to the non-trad applicants!

[Rick]

This is probably a basic question, but how much do graduate programs typically pay? When I finish my BS (Computer Science), it will have taken about 8 years all told. During this entire time I've been working as a programmer for various posts for the Air Force, so the going has been slow. If I were to want to pursue a PhD in CS, I would only apply to one school that is in the local area (University of Central Florida) because I own rental properties that I don't want to sell. I'm 24 now but I expect to be around 26 by the time I graduate and I will need to maintain some kind of cash flow, although I could survive on less than I am currently earning.

edit: probably another basic question but I couldn't find an FAQ. Is it possible to do a graduate program part time and continue to work in order to support yourself? I haven't heard of anything like this but it may be possible.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Rick

[Aglaiya]

Hello,

I am 39 now. Originally, I am from a small country in Eastern Europe. I earned my Master in Laws (we do not have JD) in 1998 and worked as an attorney. If I had been asked 4 years ago if I would earn more education, I would have said "No".

However, my family won a green card and 3 years ago, and we came to the U.S. (a couple with two children). Needless to say, I would not be happy to work whatever ..... That's why, I went to the community college to learn English and to take some General Education classes in order to have some instructors to give me LoRs. Well, more than 13 years after my first masters, I am ready to go for another masters degree. There are so many questions, but I am not afraid. I want to study. I am eager to go to a Graduate School. If I would not get into any of the three programs I have applied, that would be the biggest disappointment in my life ever, so I do not even want to think what I would do...I do not want to fail.

[Golden Monkey]

edit: probably another basic question but I couldn't find an FAQ. Is it possible to do a graduate program part time and continue to work in order to support yourself? I haven't heard of anything like this but it may be possible.

Yes, but it really depends on the program. When I started my master's, I worked (almost) full-time and took 12 credits a week. This got to be a bit much with the 3-hour commute, so when a position opened up at the university, I took that. This got me both an income (a very modest one,) and extremely discounted tuition. If you can find a job within the university, that's definitely a million times easier than holding down a job somewhere else.

[Reinventing]

You are my hero, Golden Monkey. I have always wanted to complete a graduate degree, and have applied several times already, but funding and family issues have been a problem. I'm nearing 40 and have been wondering if I should just give up. I have held a couple positions at universities, but as luck would have it, pursuing a degree that way has not worked out for me either (everything from degree programs being cancelled shortly after I started work to having bosses who didn't support their staff doing graduate degrees). I'm now really looking at how else I can make this happen, and it seems that even though you took some risks, you figured out a way to make it work. I have some renewed hope.

[Golden Monkey]

Aw, thanks! Well, the funny thing is that my age is perhaps one of those things that made it possible. When I started the program at 40, I had enough money put away that I was finally semi-comfortable dropping so much money on an advanced degree. This most certainly wasn't true earlier in life, as I would have ended up taking out loans. The job with the university, which was just dumb luck, allowed me to finish without tapping into savings.

You definitely should not give up. I think it's just a matter of making it the priority, then kind of working everything else around it. Of course, that's probably easy for me to say as I'm not married and don't have kids.

[Reinventing]

Thanks, I will keep at it. I'm not dealing with family issues anymore, so that makes it a little easier, but the financial side of this is big. Tuition has doubled since I first started saving. On those days when I feel like the grad school clock is ticking somewhere far behind me in the past, it helps to hear that others in similar situations (where they delayed grad school) have found a way to make it happen, and it's not just some impossible idea I'm holding onto.

Edited February 4, 2011 by ruralworks4me

[Golden Monkey]

Thanks, I will keep at it. I'm not dealing with family issues anymore, so that makes it a little easier, but the financial side of this is big. Tuition has doubled since I first started saving. On those days when I feel like the grad school clock is ticking somewhere far behind me in the past, it helps to hear that others in similar situations (where they delayed grad school) have found a way to make it happen, and it's not just some impossible idea I'm holding onto.

Is state school a possibility for you? My mom got an MFA at a state school (at the age of 50, mind you!) and it was extremely inexpensive compared to my private school tuition. Or you could take the route that I did (which required much luck, admittedly,) and get a job with the university and then take advantage of tuition remission. That saved me about $35,000!

[Reinventing]

Yes, I'm looking into state schools, as well as colleges where I might be able to work and pursue a master's degree at the same time. From my experience, and that of several friends in higher ed, I've learned the latter can be complicated; but it's also probably the best financial option, and I continue to explore ways to make this happen.

[Golden Monkey]

Yes, I'm looking into state schools, as well as colleges where I might be able to work and pursue a master's degree at the same time. From my experience, and that of several friends in higher ed, I've learned the latter can be complicated; but it's also probably the best financial option, and I continue to explore ways to make this happen.

The latter (working at the same university you are pursuing a degree,) from my experience, is a complete piece of cake. Honestly, people thought this was such a big deal, but if you've had a really high-stress career in the past like I did, it was a breeze, a cakewalk, a milk run, a walk in the park... a... another metaphor for something that is not difficult. University jobs are, from my experience, very laid-back and low-pressure compared to the other jobs out there, so taking classes at the same time just isn't very hard at all.

So if you get one of those tips on a university job that offers tuition remission, I really suggest you jump on it asap. Also, university jobs pay very badly, but the benefits are really good.