2025 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[prufrock_]

42 minutes ago, DJ Lambchop said:

Should the rest of us consider Iowa a soft rejection? Sometimes I look at all the acceptances and waitlists and wonder what am I even doing here

I've had quite a few moments like this, especially the last few weeks. I'm sitting on 11 rejections this round (and I am counting Iowa as a soft rejection) and it's my second round. I think the whole process has inspired me to write my best stories, and I don't regret the time / energy / MONEY of doing it all. but it's so hard to pretend that every rejection doesn't come with its own grieving process.

i know the programs would never do this for many good reasons, but i really wish we had an option of getting 'brutal truth rejections' instead of these lovely rejection emails. I imagine there are three levels of rejection. I want to get a rejection that tells me which level I was, like:

1 'we received 900 applications. we read half your first story, got bored, and threw out the packet. we didn't even read your sop, let alone your second story. this isn't for you.'

vs

2 'you made it through the first round of readers, but got cut in the second. you got close, but not close enough. be 10% better and you'll have a shot next round'

vs

3 'you made it though all the rounds of readers. But, after reading your sop and looking at transcripts, we decided you wouldn't fit in here due to xyz (things probably not even in your control).' 

 

Again, i know it wont happen, and not everyone has thick skin and would want to know. But i'd rather know if i'm being delusional with applications and that first situation is happening to all my apps, or if i'm actually close.

Edited Thursday at 11:07 PM by prufrock_

[Jane Wyman]

11 minutes ago, Lady Gladys said:

This makes me so happy! I have been quietly rooting for you, Jane, since you told us about your horrible program director. Fingers crossed you make it off the waitlist!!!

Thank you so much! That warms my heart. 

[Hjanep]

42 minutes ago, DJ Lambchop said:

Should the rest of us consider Iowa a soft rejection? Sometimes I look at all the acceptances and waitlists and wonder what am I even doing here

Same

[brokenjewelrybox]

Rn I'm at 0a / 3w / 5r / 8p, but most of those pendings have been soft rejections. I'm not discouraged exactly—I know being waitlisted is good news—but I'm still starting to worry that I won't be in a cohort in the fall. On the one hand, that gives me the opportunity to reapply with more focus than I did this time. But ahhhhhh the stress!!!!!!!!!! How are you guys coping with it hahaha. I feel like I'm going to break down.

Edit: I'm also worried that one of the stories I applied with was "too dark." Do you guys have any works that you would workshop were you to get in, but would never put in the application?

Edited Thursday at 11:16 PM by brokenjewelrybox

[DJ Lambchop]

5 minutes ago, prufrock_ said:

i know the programs would never do this for many good reasons, but i really wish we had an option of getting 'brutal truth rejections' instead of these lovely rejection emails. I imagine there are three levels of rejection. I want to get a rejection that tells me which level I was, like:

I wish I could know too. I tried to get an honest opinion from an MFA alum on whether he thought I had a chance and he just didn't say anything which makes me feel as though he was trying not to hurt my feelings. I'd rather just know that I suck!!

But it is nice to know that I'm not the only one out there on the second round, receiving a (likely) full sweep of rejections.

But I'd say the fact that you've had one waitlist is a really good sign. I was hoping for a waitlist just to get a little validation, a little nudge to tell me I'm going down the right path. 

[Hjanep]

12 minutes ago, prufrock_ said:

I've had quite a few moments like this, especially the last few weeks. I'm sitting on 11 rejections this round (and I am counting Iowa as a soft rejection) and it's my second round. I think the whole process has inspired me to write my best stories, and I don't regret the time / energy / MONEY of doing it all. but it's so hard to pretend that every rejection doesn't come with its own grieving process.

i know the programs would never do this for many good reasons, but i really wish we had an option of getting 'brutal truth rejections' instead of these lovely rejection emails. I imagine there are three levels of rejection. I want to get a rejection that tells me which level I was, like:

1 'we received 900 applications. we read half your first story, got bored, and threw out the packet. we didn't even read your sop, let alone your second story. this isn't for you.'

vs

2 'you made it through the first round of readers, but got cut in the second. you got close, but not close enough. be 10% better and you'll have a shot next round'

vs

3 'you made it though all the rounds of readers. But, after reading your sop and looking at transcripts, we decided you wouldn't fit in here due to xyz (things probably not even in your control).' 

 

Again, i know it wont happen, and not everyone has thick skin and would want to know. But i'd rather know if i'm being delusional with applications and that first situation is happening to all my apps, or if i'm actually close.

 

1 minute ago, DJ Lambchop said:

I wish I could know too. I tried to get an honest opinion from an MFA alum on whether he thought I had a chance and he just didn't say anything which makes me feel as though he was trying not to hurt my feelings. I'd rather just know that I suck!!

But it is nice to know that I'm not the only one out there on the second round, receiving a (likely) full sweep of rejections.

But I'd say the fact that you've had one waitlist is a really good sign. I was hoping for a waitlist just to get a little validation, a little nudge to tell me I'm going down the right path. 

Yeah I’m also on round 2 and am wondering if I’m just delusional / would ever actually get there

[gordonandwafflesandmrblik]

Is anybody who was waitlisted/accepted at Iowa willing to share what their manuscript was about? As a public service to help us rejects’ self esteem so we can tell ourselves that we just “didn’t fit into the cohort they were developing this year” lol! Huuuuge congratulations to you all!! What an insane achievement- I would frame the waitlist letter! 

[DJ Lambchop]

12 minutes ago, brokenjewelrybox said:

Rn I'm at 0a / 3w / 5r / 8p, but most of those pendings have been soft rejections. I'm not discouraged exactly—I know being waitlisted is good news—but I'm still starting to worry that I won't be in a cohort in the fall. On the one hand, that gives me the opportunity to reapply with more focus than I did this time. But ahhhhhh the stress!!!!!!!!!! How are you guys coping with it hahaha. I feel like I'm going to break down.

Edit: I'm also worried that one of the stories I applied with was "too dark." Do you guys have any works that you would workshop were you to get in, but would never put in the application?

Ugh I feel this.

I'm not coping very well in all honesty. Every day has been a struggle and very little has brought me happiness or motivation recently. It feels especially worse when people try to say something like "you don't need any validation to be a writer." But like...... at some point, yeah, you do, otherwise your writing will always remain private. I actually want to workshop it with people and publish at some point, not just keep a google drive full of dusty stories. 

I'd say though, that since you've had waitlists, you are definitely on the right track and should absolutely apply again if you don't get in anywhere. Be sure to email the schools you've been waitlisted at and tell them how excited you would be to attend.

I also had a story I really wanted to submit but also felt it was too dark or bold and might turn off some admins. I want to get more advice on this for my third round of applying. 

Edited Thursday at 11:27 PM by DJ Lambchop

[itsgivingliterary]

Screaming crying throwing up I'm another IWW waitlist. I've been rejected from pretty much every school I applied to so this was huge.

For those asking for info: I'm a college senior (which is probably why I've been rejected so hard lmao). My manuscript was three separate stories in three POVs and with varying levels of realism/surrealism because I wanted to show my range. Hoping that all of us waitlist chickens get a spot but am happy just being waitlisted tbh ❤️

sending hope and love to all!!

[brokenjewelrybox]

1 minute ago, DJ Lambchop said:

I also had a story I really wanted to submit but also felt it was too dark or bold and might turn off some admins. I want to get more advice on this for my third round of applying. 

I'm just really worried I turned off a bunch of schools with my story. Laugh out loud. Has anyone here been accepted with a story that they were worried was too dark?

[DJ Lambchop]

6 minutes ago, brokenjewelrybox said:

I'm just really worried I turned off a bunch of schools with my story. Laugh out loud. Has anyone here been accepted with a story that they were worried was too dark?

(For reference [I'm not sure how dark all of your guys' stories are/were], in mine a man splices his form in two and r*pes himself. This is the one I was hesitant to submit.) 

[brokenjewelrybox]

1 minute ago, DJ Lambchop said:

(For reference [I'm not sure how dark all of your guys' stories are/were], in mine a man splices his form in two and r*pes himself. This is the one I was hesitant to submit.) 

Woah that's possibly darker than mine! Was not expecting that. Are your other stories dark too?

[Jane Wyman]

30 minutes ago, prufrock_ said:

I've had quite a few moments like this, especially the last few weeks. I'm sitting on 11 rejections this round (and I am counting Iowa as a soft rejection) and it's my second round. I think the whole process has inspired me to write my best stories, and I don't regret the time / energy / MONEY of doing it all. but it's so hard to pretend that every rejection doesn't come with its own grieving process.

i know the programs would never do this for many good reasons, but i really wish we had an option of getting 'brutal truth rejections' instead of these lovely rejection emails. I imagine there are three levels of rejection. I want to get a rejection that tells me which level I was, like:

1 'we received 900 applications. we read half your first story, got bored, and threw out the packet. we didn't even read your sop, let alone your second story. this isn't for you.'

vs

2 'you made it through the first round of readers, but got cut in the second. you got close, but not close enough. be 10% better and you'll have a shot next round'

vs

3 'you made it though all the rounds of readers. But, after reading your sop and looking at transcripts, we decided you wouldn't fit in here due to xyz (things probably not even in your control).' 

 

Again, i know it wont happen, and not everyone has thick skin and would want to know. But i'd rather know if i'm being delusional with applications and that first situation is happening to all my apps, or if i'm actually close.

I haven't read applications before, but at my current program, first-round readers are often grad students, and their taste is not necessarily perfect. Especially these days, readers have trouble detecting dramatic irony, and I've noticed some younger readers are needlessly prudish at times ("this story made me feel bad, therefore it is bad").

So, your manuscript could fail to make it through the first round for reasons that have nothing to do with quality. 

[DJ Lambchop]

36 minutes ago, brokenjewelrybox said:

Woah that's possibly darker than mine! Was not expecting that. Are your other stories dark too?

This is certainly the darkest one I have so far; most of mine flirt with darkness but primarily highlight a somewhat neutral surreal. All of the ones I submitted were pretty benign, but some of my darker ones are arguably better. Just felt too iffy to submit. You never know. 

[Jitterbug98]

1 hour ago, DJ Lambchop said:

Should the rest of us consider Iowa a soft rejection? Sometimes I look at all the acceptances and waitlists and wonder what am I even doing here

Feeling similarly. This is my first round of applications and my results are looking like they're going to be 12 rejections, 1 waitlist, and 2 acceptances, but the waitlist and acceptances are all for non-fully-funded schools. For one of the acceptances I'm high on the waitlist for funding through a teaching assistantship, so I guess that makes me feel a bit better. And I was accepted early by Emerson which has given me hope that they may give me a good scholarship, but I don't know if that's actually the case and anyway the most they offer is free tuition, no stipend. One of my letters of rec did her MFA in fiction at Syracuse and was very positive about my work and thought I had a good shot-- it seemed genuine at the time but it's possible she was just being nice/supportive. 

I've always held myself to almost impossibly high standards, like I expect myself to both follow my passion and immediately be extremely successful at it. I know the whole "gifted kid burnout" thing is cliche, but I honestly do relate to it. As a kid/teen I was constantly told that I would do something special with my life and treated like I was a genius. As I've gotten older I've realized that I'm probably not all that gifted or special... I just was an anxious people-pleaser who was good at tests and memorizing things and could string sentences together. 

If I don't end up in a program next year, I'm probably going to try again, but I think I also need to learn to disconnect more from external validation and enjoy writing for the sake of writing. And remind myself that no amount of validation will make your life perfect or fix all your issues, and that many famous and brilliant writers have significant problems of their own. 

[exvat]

34 minutes ago, Jane Wyman said:

I've noticed some younger readers are needlessly prudish at times ("this story made me feel bad, therefore it is bad").

Yowza. That... gives me pause... and kinda makes me reconsider my fit/tolerance for [certain] MFA cohorts. Especially as a middle aged survivor.

[prufrock_]

40 minutes ago, Jane Wyman said:

I haven't read applications before, but at my current program, first-round readers are often grad students, and their taste is not necessarily perfect. Especially these days, readers have trouble detecting dramatic irony, and I've noticed some younger readers are needlessly prudish at times ("this story made me feel bad, therefore it is bad").

So, your manuscript could fail to make it through the first round for reasons that have nothing to do with quality. 

ah! yeah, I did go with a transgressive and dark piece as my lead, which probably wasn't the best of moves.

[spewilicious]

2 minutes ago, exvat said:

Yowza. That... gives me pause... and kinda makes me reconsider my fit/tolerance for [certain] MFA cohorts. Especially as a middle aged survivor.

Some young readers do seem underdeveloped in their taste, but I think one of the benefits of being an older person in higher ed is sharing your experiences and maturity. I returned to undergrad in my mid 30s, and I think my perspective helped balance class discussions and critique. You can teach younger readers and writers something just by being there and fearlessly pursuing those things you find valuable in writing and storytelling. I also attended undergrad with a woman in her 70s, and her insight and perspective was invaluable in class.
So I'd say, yes, expect young readers to be immature, but also expect that you can lead by example. Maybe your inclusion in a cohort will help someone else come to terms with themes they aren't yet comfortable enough to write.

 

[Jane Wyman]

10 minutes ago, exvat said:

Yowza. That... gives me pause... and kinda makes me reconsider my fit/tolerance for [certain] MFA cohorts. Especially as a middle aged survivor.

I think the majority of writers are not like that, but there's always one or two in every workshop ... and who knows if they were charged with reading your application? 

ETA: I agree with spewilicious.

Edited Friday at 12:32 AM by Jane Wyman

[exvat]

1 minute ago, spewilicious said:

Some young readers do seem underdeveloped in their taste, but I think one of the benefits of being an older person in higher ed is sharing your experiences and maturity. I returned to undergrad in my mid 30s, and I think my perspective helped balance class discussions and critique. You can teach younger readers and writers something just by being there and fearlessly pursuing those things you find valuable in writing and storytelling. I also attended undergrad with a woman in her 70s, and her insight and perspective was invaluable in class.
So I'd say, yes, expect young readers to be immature, but also expect that you can lead by example. Maybe your inclusion in a cohort will help someone else come to terms with themes they aren't yet comfortable enough to write.

 

Wonderful perspective. Thank you for sharing!

[KennyK]

Has anything about UC Riverside been posted on draft?

[brokenjewelrybox]

19 minutes ago, prufrock_ said:

ah! yeah, I did go with a transgressive and dark piece as my lead, which probably wasn't the best of moves.

i'm glad i'm not alone in having done this, though. i knew it was a risk to include such a dark piece. but i was proud of it, and i want to be somewhere that wants to work on it with me, you know?

[zaira]

1 hour ago, prufrock_ said:

But i'd rather know if i'm being delusional with applications and that first situation is happening to all my apps, or if i'm actually close.

 

46 minutes ago, Jitterbug98 said:

One of my letters of rec did her MFA in fiction at Syracuse and was very positive about my work and thought I had a good shot-- it seemed genuine at the time but it's possible she was just being nice/supportive. 

For whatever it's worth, which probably isn't much at all, I highly doubt either of you are being delusional. I also don't think your recommenders were just being nice. 

I've noticed there can be a wide chasm between the MFA world and the outside world. I got into a competitive workshop this summer. My instructors were the ones who pushed me to apply for my MFA--I hadn't even considered it prior to this workshop. They all have MFAs from the biggest programs themselves. When I gave them my shortlist of schools, they said they thought I would get in to at least a couple, and if I didn't, it would be down to very bad luck. 

Well, bad luck is here and boy does it suck. It's very hard feeling so firmly planted only to have the floor drop from under you. 

I ended up taking a short break from most MFA stuff these past few days and will probably keep it up once I'm done giving this little pep talk. Dwelling on MFAs isn't good for my mental health or my creative process. I refuse to let this MFA season rewrite history. I've had good feedback on my work. I'm sure both of you have also had great feedback on your work. So that's what we're gonna do: keep doing the damn thing. 

[exvat]

11 minutes ago, zaira said:

 

For whatever it's worth, which probably isn't much at all, I highly doubt either of you are being delusional. I also don't think your recommenders were just being nice. 

I've noticed there can be a wide chasm between the MFA world and the outside world. I got into a competitive workshop this summer. My instructors were the ones who pushed me to apply for my MFA--I hadn't even considered it prior to this workshop. They all have MFAs from the biggest programs themselves. When I gave them my shortlist of schools, they said they thought I would get in to at least a couple, and if I didn't, it would be down to very bad luck. 

Well, bad luck is here and boy does it suck. It's very hard feeling so firmly planted only to have the floor drop from under you. 

I ended up taking a short break from most MFA stuff these past few days and will probably keep it up once I'm done giving this little pep talk. Dwelling on MFAs isn't good for my mental health or my creative process. I refuse to let this MFA season rewrite history. I've had good feedback on my work. I'm sure both of you have also had great feedback on your work. So that's what we're gonna do: keep doing the damn thing. 

Heard, felt, seen. After my first round of applications in 2017 (for aaaalll the wrong reasons), I just kept my nose to the grindstone and gave up the idea of an MFA altogether. Write more, and better. I collected increasingly "big" pub creds (esp for a "self-taught" writer). Eventually a top summer workshop—where my accomplished, insightful, trustworthy, and generous poetry workshop leader got me to again consider an MFA. Which I ignoooooreeeeeddddd. Until two years later, when others in my life (particularly at AWP) began encouraging me to apply. People with big credentials put their confidence in me under vaunted letterheads, saying they believed I could "Do The Thing™ at Lol University."

So, here I am, at the tail end of round two, seven years apart, and sure of two things:

1. My writing is better than ever, and continuing to be, pretty much with every new poem. So I ain't stressing about poeting. I'm gonna keep doing the thing, and slaying at it. And,

2. Those folks with the fancy letterheads who know me, know my work, and went to bat for me aren't full of shit; so I can show them—and more importantly, myself—the respect of believing their highly sought professional opinions... which are quite favorable.

It again ain't my year (98% of precincts reporting), and it doesn't feel great, especially given how sure my supporters seemed that I'd get something—anything. But also, I've learned a hell of a lot in the process, and feel way more confident in the outcome of a hypothetical third application cycle. Maybe that'll be another seven years. But at 47, who knows where I'll be? Or, for that matter, where MFA programs will be?

[Catpaw]

To the folks who are regretting leading with a transgressive or darker writing sample: 

On one hand, yes, the people reading these samples are reading hundreds of them, and that makes one's attention lag. Tired readers are more likely to go off a brief flash of an impression of a sample, at first glance, and they're more likely to pass on a sample whose flash-impression doesn't match their subconscious mental model of what they're expecting a 'good' MFA sample to look like. 

And they will miss some really bold and exciting writing by doing this. Though, small comfort when it means we don't get into the program...

However.

I have a friend who worked with a reputable MFA mentor for their application, and the mentor repeatedly tried to get my friend to cut a certain experimental and transgressive passage (which went on for several pages), and which felt key to their submission. The mentor felt strongly that this whole passage would completely repel the adcoms. My friend and I, on the other hand, both felt it was the best part of the sample.

My friend ended up keeping the passage. And yes, they were rejected from the majority of programs they applied to. But the top programs that accepted them did tell them, during calls, how that passage had been the moment when they knew they wanted my friend at their program. One professor (who was a writer my friend really admired) specifically dubbed it as 'brave' and couldn't stop talking about it.

I think we all take certain gambles with the writing samples that we send to the programs. We try to show our best work, and sometimes 'best' can mean our bravest work. Sometimes our bravest work can freak people out lol. Or they just bounce right off of it because, whatever, it's not for them! But sometimes you do reach someone with it who sees it for what it is. So, sometimes, the gamble can pay off.

 

Edited Friday at 02:25 AM by Catpaw
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