Chemistry PhD Programs with a High Acceptance Rate for a Person with Around a 3.2 GPA and 3.5 Chemistry GPA with 1 Month Research Experience

[chaospaladin]

I'm trying to narrow down my choices for PhD Chemistry Programs which I will be applying in Fall 2011. I have a 3.2 GPA with a Chem GPA 3.5. I have one month of research experience and have not taken my GREs yet. What are some PhD Chemistry Programs that are within my reach (if any)? I don't want to waste my time and money applying to top PhD Chemistry Programs that I have no shot at getting into. If I don't get accepted to any PhD Chemistry Programs, would getting an M.S. in Chemistry and doing well in them be a stepping stone to gaining PhD Chemistry admission? I know SJSU M.S. Chemistry have a 2.5 GPA requirement minimum and will accept students conditionally if they prove themselves with a 3.5 GPA their first year, so that can be a back up plan.

Thanks.

[Eigen]

I'd just take the next 9-10 months to get a ton more research experience, and bring up the GPA.

If you had good research experience, the GPA wouldn't be so bad... But a 3.2 GPA is going to hurt, at least some. You'll need good GRE scores to counter it.

As for a Masters helping.... Terminal Masters programs are kind of looked down upon by most doctoral programs- they're not much of a stepping stone. You'd be better off postponing graduation and getting some research experience where you are.

Before I can advise you as to good target schools, what area of chemistry are you interested in? And what do you want to do with the degree?

[UnlikelyGrad]

I'm trying to narrow down my choices for PhD Chemistry Programs which I will be applying in Fall 2011. I have a 3.2 GPA with a Chem GPA 3.5. I have one month of research experience and have not taken my GREs yet. What are some PhD Chemistry Programs that are within my reach (if any)? I don't want to waste my time and money applying to top PhD Chemistry Programs that I have no shot at getting into. If I don't get accepted to any PhD Chemistry Programs, would getting an M.S. in Chemistry and doing well in them be a stepping stone to gaining PhD Chemistry admission? I know SJSU M.S. Chemistry have a 2.5 GPA requirement minimum and will accept students conditionally if they prove themselves with a 3.5 GPA their first year, so that can be a back up plan.

Thanks.

Clarification: Do you mean you will submit your applications in Fall 2011 for Fall 2012?

Since your GPA is not so hot, you'll want to focus on getting research experience and making sure you have rock solid letters of recommendation. It's amazing what a good letter of recommendation from a research advisor can do for your app.

And, as Eigen said, you really need to decide what sort of chemistry you want to do. You're going to have to write a statement of purpose outlining your research goals. And while your specific research interests might drift over time, you'd want to at least be in a program which has a reasonable number of profs in the major sub-field. So: what sub-field, at the very least, are you interested in? Physical (Experimental? Computational?), Organic, Inorganic, Analytical, Materials, Environmental?

If you can't pull together more research experience and strong LoRs, a master's might be a good step--do something locally and then apply for Ph.D. programs. (Are you near SJSU? I know that place...)

[chaospaladin]

I'd just take the next 9-10 months to get a ton more research experience, and bring up the GPA.

If you had good research experience, the GPA wouldn't be so bad... But a 3.2 GPA is going to hurt, at least some. You'll need good GRE scores to counter it.

As for a Masters helping.... Terminal Masters programs are kind of looked down upon by most doctoral programs- they're not much of a stepping stone. You'd be better off postponing graduation and getting some research experience where you are.

Before I can advise you as to good target schools, what area of chemistry are you interested in? And what do you want to do with the degree?

I am interested in inorganic chemistry and I wish to pursue research in Chemistry, teach at a 4 year university or teach at a community college. Also how do you multiquote? I tried using the multiquote button, but I could not multiquote. I don't really want to double post, so I will respond to the 3rd post without actually quoting it.

At UnlikelyGrad:

I meant that I will submit my applications for Fall 2012. I am interested in inorganic Chemistry for now. Yes, I actually live in San Jose, CA during the summer when I am not in school. I also did undergraduate research for a professor in the summer at SJSU, but the research didn't go anywhere. I felt like I wasted a month for nothing. Should I even note that on my research experience once I start applying?

At everyone else reading this:

If anyone knows some good target schools for me to get into, then please let me know. Thanks. Also teach me how to multiquote.

[waddle]

I also did undergraduate research for a professor in the summer at SJSU, but the research didn't go anywhere. I felt like I wasted a month for nothing. Should I even note that on my research experience once I start applying?

A month-long research experience isn't very much, unless it was full-time. If you'll be getting a letter from the professor, then definitely tack on a few sentences about your research. I figure it's always better to be able to describe what the 'big picture' of the project was and your specific role in the project in your statement, even if you haven't done a lot of actual work on it, than to have done a bunch of technical work, but have no idea what the purpose was. In other words, knowing it is better than doing it (if you don't have both, that is). Can you go back and work with this professor some more over the school year? Any data-analysis work you could do that doesn't require you to actually be in the lab, but still allows you to contribute to the project?

Also teach me how to multiquote.

Toggle multiquote for all posts you want to quote. Then go to the bottom of the page and click add reply.

[chaospaladin]

A month-long research experience isn't very much, unless it was full-time. If you'll be getting a letter from the professor, then definitely tack on a few sentences about your research. I figure it's always better to be able to describe what the 'big picture' of the project was and your specific role in the project in your statement, even if you haven't done a lot of actual work on it, than to have done a bunch of technical work, but have no idea what the purpose was. In other words, knowing it is better than doing it (if you don't have both, that is). Can you go back and work with this professor some more over the school year? Any data-analysis work you could do that doesn't require you to actually be in the lab, but still allows you to contribute to the project?

Toggle multiquote for all posts you want to quote. Then go to the bottom of the page and click add reply.

The professor whom I originally worked with no longer works at SJSU, so I can no longer work with that professor.

Also does anyone know if applying to the same school you went to for undergraduate for your graduate is a good idea? I was thinking yes since the professors know you and they are on the admissions committee, but I don't know for sure. Regarding undergraduate research, is it better to do undergraduate research in an area you are not interested in than to have no research at all? The reason why I say this is that my school UCSB, most inorganic chemistry labs are full but a lot of organic chemistry labs are open and I am more interested in inorganic chemistry than organic chemistry. The biochemistry labs are always open but I have absolutely zero interest in biochemistry and only little interest in organic chemistry.

Also aside from wanting to teach at a 4 year university, 2 year university, becoming a researcher in a lab, I am also considering working in the industry as an option.

Thanks to everyone for contributing.

[waddle]

Also does anyone know if applying to the same school you went to for undergraduate for your graduate is a good idea?

Some people will scream academic incest, but there are plenty of sucessful scientists who have done this. My impression is it won't really matter in the long run, though it's always good to get exposed to how things are done at other places.

Regarding undergraduate research, is it better to do undergraduate research in an area you are not interested in than to have no research at all?

Yes. The research process is more or less the same. Technical skills won't matter much, since you'll have to relearn most everything anyways once you move to a new research group.

The reason why I say this is that my school UCSB, most inorganic chemistry labs are full but a lot of organic chemistry labs are open and I am more interested in inorganic chemistry than organic chemistry. The biochemistry labs are always open but I have absolutely zero interest in biochemistry and only little interest in organic chemistry.

Any specific interest in inorganic? If you're into applied research, material science or engineering labs often do stuff bordering on inorganic & analytical (microfluidics & whatnot). There are also plenty of inorganic environmental chemists, geochemists & oceanographers (particularly the latter at UCSB).

Also aside from wanting to teach at a 4 year university, 2 year university, becoming a researcher in a lab, I am also considering working in the industry as an option.

So you have no idea what you want to do. That's okay! Get more research experience, for a start. It'll help immensely in shaping your interests.

[Eigen]

Any idea what area of inorganic chemistry?

Since you have little interest in organic chemistry, I'm assuming it isn't much in the way of organometallic chemistry... Or even synthetic inorganic chemistry. And since you have no interest in biochemistry, I'm guessing it's not bioinorganic work.

This leaves more in the range of characterization/photochemistry, as well as the abovementioned materials science applications.

Slimming down the area will help a lot at identifying good programs.

From your posts, I suggest you really don't know... And with only a month of research experience, that's quite understandable. I'd buckle down and spend this semester and the summer doing a lot of research, and see where that leads you.

If you're interested in an academic position, which are at the moment extremely competitive, then I'd try not to go to the same institution where you did your undergrad- at least not for the PhD. It might be a good idea to stay and do your masters as a means of getting more research experience- and apply to a PhD program elsewhere.

The worry people have when hiring someone who did too many degrees at the same institution is that they haven't been exposed to as wide of a range of students, faculty, and research labs as someone who moved institutions between degrees- it's not a deal breaker, but it will certainly make you seem a bit less desirable in the long run.

If you're interested in industry or teaching at a 2 year college, you might do fine just getting your MS and working from there.

Refining your research interests and your career interests will help a lot in choosing a path and school.

[UnlikelyGrad]

The professor whom I originally worked with no longer works at SJSU, so I can no longer work with that professor.

I'm dying of curiosity...who? I know a couple of people who have left SJSU in the last few years.

Regarding undergraduate research, is it better to do undergraduate research in an area you are not interested in than to have no research at all?

YES. Absolutely, yes.

Also aside from wanting to teach at a 4 year university, 2 year university, becoming a researcher in a lab, I am also considering working in the industry as an option.

In other words, you don't have a strongly defined idea of what you want to do.

So here's my advice: you can take it or leave it. Go for the MS. Then work in industry for a few years and possibly try adjuncting at a community college at the same time. After this you should have a better idea of where you want to go with your life.

SJSU wouldn't be a particularly good place for someone interested in inorganic chemistry--the focus there is strongly biochem, if I remember correctly, and even people in other areas of chemistry seem to have some link to biochem. Try other CSU schools for master's programs; you should be able to find one with a better focus, and tuition will be reasonable since you are a California resident.

[chaospaladin]

Does anyone know how to change the number of posts per page on this forum from 20 pages per post to 40 pages per post? I'm new to this forum and I am interested in reading some of the threads on this forum that have over 100 replies and I would prefer to scroll than to click next page. Just a preference.

Some people will scream academic incest, but there are plenty of sucessful scientists who have done this. My impression is it won't really matter in the long run, though it's always good to get exposed to how things are done at other places.

Yes. The research process is more or less the same. Technical skills won't matter much, since you'll have to relearn most everything anyways once you move to a new research group.

Any specific interest in inorganic? If you're into applied research, material science or engineering labs often do stuff bordering on inorganic & analytical (microfluidics & whatnot). There are also plenty of inorganic environmental chemists, geochemists & oceanographers (particularly the latter at UCSB).

So you have no idea what you want to do. :PThat's okay! Get more research experience, for a start. It'll help immensely in shaping your interests.

I am interested in transition metals for now.

Any idea what area of inorganic chemistry?

Since you have little interest in organic chemistry, I'm assuming it isn't much in the way of organometallic chemistry... Or even synthetic inorganic chemistry. And since you have no interest in biochemistry, I'm guessing it's not bioinorganic work.

This leaves more in the range of characterization/photochemistry, as well as the abovementioned materials science applications.

Slimming down the area will help a lot at identifying good programs.

From your posts, I suggest you really don't know... And with only a month of research experience, that's quite understandable. I'd buckle down and spend this semester and the summer doing a lot of research, and see where that leads you.

If you're interested in an academic position, which are at the moment extremely competitive, then I'd try not to go to the same institution where you did your undergrad- at least not for the PhD. It might be a good idea to stay and do your masters as a means of getting more research experience- and apply to a PhD program elsewhere.

The worry people have when hiring someone who did too many degrees at the same institution is that they haven't been exposed to as wide of a range of students, faculty, and research labs as someone who moved institutions between degrees- it's not a deal breaker, but it will certainly make you seem a bit less desirable in the long run.

If you're interested in industry or teaching at a 2 year college, you might do fine just getting your MS and working from there.

Refining your research interests and your career interests will help a lot in choosing a path and school.

I see. I am interested in transition metals for now. I was reading a professor's course research web page and his research on Mn was interesting. Organometallics is also an option for me.

I'm dying of curiosity...who? I know a couple of people who have left SJSU in the last few years.

YES. Absolutely, yes.

In other words, you don't have a strongly defined idea of what you want to do.

So here's my advice: you can take it or leave it. Go for the MS. Then work in industry for a few years and possibly try adjuncting at a community college at the same time. After this you should have a better idea of where you want to go with your life.

SJSU wouldn't be a particularly good place for someone interested in inorganic chemistry--the focus there is strongly biochem, if I remember correctly, and even people in other areas of chemistry seem to have some link to biochem. Try other CSU schools for master's programs; you should be able to find one with a better focus, and tuition will be reasonable since you are a California resident.

I see. The Professor's name is eluding me right now. I was almost certain it was Professor Les but then I searched his name and I found Les Rowntree which somewhat doesn't make sense since it said that he retired in 2005 and that he is from the Environmental Studies Department. Actually, if you give me the names of some of the professors off the top of your head whom you know to be retired recently, I may be able to remember it.

Thank you very much for all of your responses so far. I would like to keep in touch with all of you on this forums and would like to post in this thread in the future. I plan on posting in this thread for the next 12-18 months on a weekly or biweekly basis or so to update all of you on my interest and resume. I actually expect this thread to have over 100 replies by the time I start applying to graduate schools. So look forward to more of my posts in the future. My next post in this thread will probably be on Sunday February 6, 2011 or so.

I actually have a few more questions for now:

1. Are there any M.S. Programs that are fully funded? If so, which ones?

2. Can anyone here provide a list of target schools that fit my academic record? I am actually willing to go to Out of State for a PhD in Chemistry if needed.

3. Will internships in Chemistry that are not research based help my academic record in terms of getting a PhD in Chemistry?

4. I know that most PhD in science are generally funded, but is it true that it is not worth entering a PhD Program that has no funding where you pay for your PhD? Some people were saying that since they don't trust you that you can complete your PhD by not funding you, you should not trust them either.

5. Is there a consolidated list of acceptance rate for PhD Chemistry Programs somewhere?

6. Is there a way for me to edit the title of the OP? I was thinking of updating the thread title every quarter as my GPA changes (hopefully for the better) and I get more research experience.

7. I heard only about 50% of students who enter a PhD Program actually complete the Program and the other 50% don't finish. Is there a consolidated list of Programs that list by how their students finish?

8. As an expansion on the previous question, do PhD Programs normally stop funding their students after 5.5 years? Does that mean that those who complete their Programs by taking longer than 5.5 years have to pay everything out of their own pocket after 5.5 years for the remainder of 4.5 years?

9. I actually knew a TA who said they knew a student that has been at UCSB for Chemistry since September 1995 and just got his PhD in March 2010. He took the 6 year plan for his B.S. and the 8.5 year plan for his PhD. Is it wise for me to stay at UCSB for an extra two years as an undergraduate student to gain undergraduate research experience and improve my GPA or just graduate in four years. This idea seems sketchy to me since I am a low income student and I need financial aid and the level of financial aid decrease after 4 years. I am a 3rd year right now and I can actually graduate one quarter early if I am on track. UCSB actually funds their undergraduates for 6 years, but since I had a lot of AP credits and community college credits, I actually had Sophomore Standing before my first day of class, so I am only eligible for funding until after my 5th year. Even then, I don't know how much financial aid I will get my fifth year. In spite of this, I don't even know what other classes to take for my fifth year besides retaking some classes that wasn't needed for my major to improve my GPA.

10. As an expansion for question 9, is it worth spending time and money to retake classes that I don't need for my major to increase my GPA? My TA failed a few biology classes and had a 3.2 / 3.8 overall / Chem GPA but still made it to the UCSB PhD Chemistry Program, but granted he had a letter of recommendation from a celebrity chemist as well as an undergraduate publication.

Thanks.

Edited January 31, 2011 by chaospaladin

[Eigen]

1. Are there any M.S. Programs that are fully funded? If so, which ones?

Very few MS programs are funded at all, much less fully funded. I can't off the top of my head think of a fully funded MS program, and in fact our school actively attempts to discourage MS students.

2. Can anyone here provide a list of target schools that fit my academic record? I am actually willing to go to Out of State for a PhD in Chemistry if needed.

I'd wait until you've refined your research interests and gotten more experience before you start making a list of target schools. Especially get recommendations from prof's you do research with, they might know people somewhere that will make it easier for you.

3. Will internships in Chemistry that are not research based help my academic record in terms of getting a PhD in Chemistry?

They'll help, but not compared to what you need (IMO). Put the time into research.

4. I know that most PhD in science are generally funded, but is it true that it is not worth entering a PhD Program that has no funding where you pay for your PhD? Some people were saying that since they don't trust you that you can complete your PhD by not funding you, you should not trust them either.

I agree. If you can't get funding somewhere, you shouldn't be going there. Either it's too much of a "reach" school for you, and they're looking for a bit of extra funding via your tuition, or the school itself isn't well funded.

5. Is there a consolidated list of acceptance rate for PhD Chemistry Programs somewhere?

NRCS rankings just came out for this year, they're a good place to start. This site is probably the best on statistics. Most schools probably accept 1/10 or thereabouts- some more, some less.

6. Is there a way for me to edit the title of the OP? I was thinking of updating the thread title every quarter as my GPA changes (hopefully for the better) and I get more research experience.

No idea.

7. I heard only about 50% of students who enter a PhD Program actually complete the Program and the other 50% don't finish. Is there a consolidated list of Programs that list by how their students finish?

Again, check the NRCS rankings- most have average graduation time and attrition rate. The 50% stats are pretty common across schools, though.

8. As an expansion on the previous question, do PhD Programs normally stop funding their students after 5.5 years? Does that mean that those who complete their Programs by taking longer than 5.5 years have to pay everything out of their own pocket after 5.5 years for the remainder of 4.5 years?

Very school dependent. Ours funds for at least 7 years, and on after that depending on the PI. Most programs run off of PI based funding, so it depends not only on the department and the school, but also your boss.

9. I actually knew a TA who said they knew a student that has been at UCSB for Chemistry since September 1995 and just got his PhD in March 2010. He took the 6 year plan for his B.S. and the 8.5 year plan for his PhD. Is it wise for me to stay at UCSB for an extra two years as an undergraduate student to gain undergraduate research experience and improve my GPA or just graduate in four years. This idea seems sketchy to me since I am a low income student and I need financial aid and the level of financial aid decrease after 4 years. I am a 3rd year right now and I can actually graduate one quarter early if I am on track. UCSB actually funds their undergraduates for 6 years, but since I had a lot of AP credits and community college credits, I actually had Sophomore Standing before my first day of class, so I am only eligible for funding until after my 5th year. Even then, I don't know how much financial aid I will get my fifth year. In spite of this, I don't even know what other classes to take for my fifth year besides retaking some classes that wasn't needed for my major to improve my GPA.

I stayed a 5th year to finish writing my undergraduate thesis, and I know that helped a ton getting into grad school- it was a full year spent doing a lot of research, and resulted in better letters of rec, as well as more research experience/a publication for my CV.

10. As an expansion for question 9, is it worth spending time and money to retake classes that I don't need for my major to increase my GPA? My TA failed a few biology classes and had a 3.2 / 3.8 overall / Chem GPA but still made it to the UCSB PhD Chemistry Program, but granted he had a letter of recommendation from a celebrity chemist as well as an undergraduate publication.

Grades don't matter that much, but research matters a lot. We have several students that were close to 3.0 averages as undergrads, but they all had several years of research experience and stellar LoRs. On the other hand, good grades won't balance out a lack of research experience.

Back to the research interests: You said transition metals, but that really isn't a field of research in inorganic chemistry. Transition metal chemistry can be applied to organometallics, bioinorganic chemistry, inorganic photochemisty, etc. You need to pick an area based more off of end results.

You had asked earlier about research out of your immediate field- and if you're interested in organometallics, organic synth. research is a great place to get started- you'll need to synthesize all or most of your own ligands in grad school, so having a firm background in organic synthesis is a huge step up.

[UnlikelyGrad]

I am interested in transition metals for now. I was reading a professor's course research web page and his research on Mn was interesting. Organometallics is also an option for me.

See, even this is too vague. There are a lot of things you can do with transition metals. I like transition metals too, and I'm interested in their environmental implications. But I could also have gone down a materials track, creating new materials using transition metals. Or I could have gone into organometallics--I seriously considered that. Most organometallics use transition metals.

I see. The Professor's name is eluding me right now. I was almost certain it was Professor Les but then I searched his name and I found Les Rowntree which somewhat doesn't make sense since it said that he retired in 2005 and that he is from the Environmental Studies Department. Actually, if you give me the names of some of the professors off the top of your head whom you know to be retired recently, I may be able to remember it.

Was he in the chemistry department? When did you work for him?

The closest person to "Les" in the chem department I can think of is Brooke Lustig. Tall, burly guy, long curly hair, mustache?

[UnlikelyGrad]

1. Are there any M.S. Programs that are fully funded? If so, which ones?

Some state universities fund MS programs. Not the Cal State Universities, though. There are funded MS students at my school (though the incoming PhD students were always offered funding before the incoming MS students). I believe Portland State University (in Oregon) had a funded MS program.

2. Can anyone here provide a list of target schools that fit my academic record? I am actually willing to go to Out of State for a PhD in Chemistry if needed.

We'd need more info on your research interests.

3. Will internships in Chemistry that are not research based help my academic record in terms of getting a PhD in Chemistry?

What exactly would you be doing at these things?

4. I know that most PhD in science are generally funded, but is it true that it is not worth entering a PhD Program that has no funding where you pay for your PhD? Some people were saying that since they don't trust you that you can complete your PhD by not funding you, you should not trust them either.

Absolutely--you should never have to pay for a Ph.D. in science.

5. Is there a consolidated list of acceptance rate for PhD Chemistry Programs somewhere?

The Princeton Review (I think) book of grad schools had this data for some (but not all) schools. I found it at my local library.

6. Is there a way for me to edit the title of the OP? I was thinking of updating the thread title every quarter as my GPA changes (hopefully for the better) and I get more research experience.

Nope. Only mods can edit post titles.

7. I heard only about 50% of students who enter a PhD Program actually complete the Program and the other 50% don't finish. Is there a consolidated list of Programs that list by how their students finish?

Yikes, that would be a tough program. In our department of ~50 students we lose approximately 1 per semester. That's about 4% attrition per year. Of course there are some who are asked to do a MS instead of a Ph.D...not sure how many of these we get per year...

8. As an expansion on the previous question, do PhD Programs normally stop funding their students after 5.5 years? Does that mean that those who complete their Programs by taking longer than 5.5 years have to pay everything out of their own pocket after 5.5 years for the remainder of 4.5 years?

Depends on the school. Your funding offer should clarify this, if not you ask the department. Mine is good for 5 years.

Of course, once you get past a certain percentage of the degree program, you might be able to go on reduced tuition (depending on the school)--so if all you're doing is writing your dissertation, you might not have to pay so much.

9. I actually knew a TA who said they knew a student that has been at UCSB for Chemistry since September 1995 and just got his PhD in March 2010. He took the 6 year plan for his B.S. and the 8.5 year plan for his PhD. Is it wise for me to stay at UCSB for an extra two years as an undergraduate student to gain undergraduate research experience and improve my GPA or just graduate in four years. This idea seems sketchy to me since I am a low income student and I need financial aid and the level of financial aid decrease after 4 years. I am a 3rd year right now and I can actually graduate one quarter early if I am on track. UCSB actually funds their undergraduates for 6 years, but since I had a lot of AP credits and community college credits, I actually had Sophomore Standing before my first day of class, so I am only eligible for funding until after my 5th year. Even then, I don't know how much financial aid I will get my fifth year. In spite of this, I don't even know what other classes to take for my fifth year besides retaking some classes that wasn't needed for my major to improve my GPA.

No, don't stay that long! Maybe an extra year (and even then I would be hesitant), but two years is too long. For one thing, there's no guarantee that your GPA will actually improve.

10. As an expansion for question 9, is it worth spending time and money to retake classes that I don't need for my major to increase my GPA? My TA failed a few biology classes and had a 3.2 / 3.8 overall / Chem GPA but still made it to the UCSB PhD Chemistry Program, but granted he had a letter of recommendation from a celebrity chemist as well as an undergraduate publication.

No. A better idea would be to go over the material again on your own so you can ace the Chem GRE.

[UnlikelyGrad]

1. What are some of the best ways to study for the GRE as well as the Chemistry GRE? I cannot afford a tutor, so I would need to self-study by myself.

I got some textbooks (GenChem, PChem, Inorganic, Organic, Analytical) that had in-depth solutions manuals. Then I worked through every single one of them on my own. I started with odd problems, and if I could get through with only a couple of minor mistakes I moved on. If I totally screwed up I went back and did the evens.

2. If I want to go to an Out of State university, how (if possible) would I qualify for in state tuition?

If you have funding, this is moot. The university will cover your tuition. Many schools will cover out-of-state tuition for one year, which gives you a chance to establish residency. After that they only cover in-state tuition.

3. I actually switched majors and earned terrible grades in the previous major (1 C-, 1 F, and 1 D), should I try to retake those classes in the hopes of improving my GPA or just forget about it and focus my time on research? Those were engineering classes which are not related to my current major which is Chemistry.

No. Definitely not.

4. What are some good ways to phrase an email asking for an undergraduate research position? I heard that most professors dismiss most undergraduate requests since they see them as only wanting to do undergraduate research so the students can have something to put on their CV for graduate school. I was thinking of carefully reading their course web pages many times and then mention specific material relating to their research to indicate that I actually read their course web pages. Should I mention my overall GPA and Chemistry GPA? I figured that if I didn't, they would assume that I had a low GPA (well technically it is low for graduate school admissions) and was trying to hide it. I was thinking of also mentioning what specific areas I am interested in doing in. Should I also mention my one month research experience even though it did not progressed that much? Any other tips on how I should approach and phrase the email message?

Don't email. You are there in person, so meet with them in person. The best way is to take the person's class and go into office hours several times for help. Talk with them while you're there. Ask them about their research. Take notes, then go home and see if you understand what they told you. Go back and ask for clarification if necessary. Say you really want to understand what they are doing. Ask to see papers they've published.

If you are a diligent student AND you show interest in what they are doing, they will probably ask you (ideal)...but if not, after four or five trips to the prof's office, it should be OK to ask them yourself.

No, not quite. It wasn't him. Yes, he was from the Chemistry department but he also worked in the Chemical Engineering Department as well. I worked for him in June 2010.

Hmmm...don't know any of the ChemE profs. Note that if you don't know his name, it will be hard to put the research on your CV!

Maybe you could describe him to me? Tell me what sort of research you were doing. Did he retire or leave for other reasons?

The two I know who left (neither for retirement) were Pat Fleming and Tom Young, both of whom were computational chemists. eta: I don't know about Pat, but Tom definitely took ChemE students as researchers.

[chaospaladin]

Is anyone aware of PhD Chemistry Programs cross-examining applicants with each other? Since my family has a low income (both of my parents make below $30,000 a year combined), I may qualify for application fee waivers. Since I have a poor academic record, I was thinking of applying to like >30 PhD Chemistry Programs with the mind set "I have nothing to lose since I get application fee waivers (hopefully for all of them)." I am probably getting ahead of myself though since I am still a third year. If they do cross-examine, they will know that I am desperate and applied to many programs and if so, would they think that I am desperate and will count that against me?

I got some textbooks (GenChem, PChem, Inorganic, Organic, Analytical) that had in-depth solutions manuals. Then I worked through every single one of them on my own. I started with odd problems, and if I could get through with only a couple of minor mistakes I moved on. If I totally screwed up I went back and did the evens.

If you have funding, this is moot. The university will cover your tuition. Many schools will cover out-of-state tuition for one year, which gives you a chance to establish residency. After that they only cover in-state tuition.

No. Definitely not.

Don't email. You are there in person, so meet with them in person. The best way is to take the person's class and go into office hours several times for help. Talk with them while you're there. Ask them about their research. Take notes, then go home and see if you understand what they told you. Go back and ask for clarification if necessary. Say you really want to understand what they are doing. Ask to see papers they've published.

If you are a diligent student AND you show interest in what they are doing, they will probably ask you (ideal)...but if not, after four or five trips to the prof's office, it should be OK to ask them yourself.

Hmmm...don't know any of the ChemE profs. Note that if you don't know his name, it will be hard to put the research on your CV!

Maybe you could describe him to me? Tell me what sort of research you were doing. Did he retire or leave for other reasons?

The two I know who left (neither for retirement) were Pat Fleming and Tom Young, both of whom were computational chemists. eta: I don't know about Pat, but Tom definitely took ChemE students as researchers.

He was bald, white, and didn't wear glasses. Also now that I have thought about it, he seemed like a graduate student than a Professor. He probably left for other reasons. Upon trying to ponder about it further, I think he was a graduate of a professor who left for a term but gave permission to him to give undergraduate students access to her lab. The Professor was Claire I believe. I still have her email address as well as the graduate student's email address somewhere in my inbox but I'll dig it through at another time.

Also regarding the professor that I want to do research with, I had him for Physical Chemistry in which I got an A- in his class in Fall quarter and will have him for Physical Chemistry again in Spring Quarter. I did not have him for Winter Quarter (now) because he isn't teaching this quarter. I did not go to his office hours at all Fall quarter (although I should have). So regarding Spring quarter you suggest that I do the following things right?

1. Go to office hours and ask questions regarding HW for like 6 times or so.

2. By the 3rd week of visiting his in office hours many times, he should be more familiarize with me, right? (And ask him about his research in the process).

3. Should I also mention my GPA casually in passing by saying something like: "Well yeah, I have a 3.2 GPA and I'm looking into applying into graduate school next year" and ask him for advice for graduate school at the same time as asking him for HW help or will this look too awkward?

[luce373]

Is anyone aware of PhD Chemistry Programs cross-examining applicants with each other? Since my family has a low income (both of my parents make below $30,000 a year combined), I may qualify for application fee waivers. Since I have a poor academic record, I was thinking of applying to like >30 PhD Chemistry Programs with the mind set "I have nothing to lose since I get application fee waivers (hopefully for all of them)." I am probably getting ahead of myself though since I am still a third year. If they do cross-examine, they will know that I am desperate and applied to many programs and if so, would they think that I am desperate and will count that against me?

They probably won't know that you've applied to so many schools but that is WAY overkill. I was stretched pretty thin submitting my 10 applications and in retrospect I wish I'd cut the list down more. It's better to choose <10 schools that are good fits and are a mix of higher and lower ranked than to apply to so many. If you're not a good fit you won't get in anyway.

Also regarding the professor that I want to do research with, I had him for Physical Chemistry in which I got an A- in his class in Fall quarter and will have him for Physical Chemistry again in Spring Quarter. I did not have him for Winter Quarter (now) because he isn't teaching this quarter. I did not go to his office hours at all Fall quarter (although I should have). So regarding Spring quarter you suggest that I do the following things right?

1. Go to office hours and ask questions regarding HW for like 6 times or so.

2. By the 3rd week of visiting his in office hours many times, he should be more familiarize with me, right? (And ask him about his research in the process).

3. Should I also mention my GPA casually in passing by saying something like: "Well yeah, I have a 3.2 GPA and I'm looking into applying into graduate school next year" and ask him for advice for graduate school at the same time as asking him for HW help or will this look too awkward?

1. Yes, but only if you legitimately have a question. It's not about tallying up office visits, it's about engaging in interesting conversations about chemistry.

3. It's definitely awkward to mention your GPA, it's really more about the chemistry you can do/discuss. The professor I work for at my school never asked about my GPA before he brought me into the lab (though I think at my school professors can look that up online if they want). I had never had him in class before, but I was really interested in his research so I e-mailed him telling him why his work intrigued me and asking if he had any space in his lab. You can certainly bring that up in conversation with this professor, and maybe even talk about grad school. Just phrase it so you're saying his research sounds exciting to you; if that's the case, it's natural you would consider pursuing it once you graduate. And if it doesn't work out, it certainly doesn't hurt to e-mail professors cold as long as you focus on why their research would be a good fit for you and not that you need something for your resume. It can't hurt.

Edited February 2, 2011 by luce373

[chaospaladin]

No. Definitely not.

Can you elaborate on why I should not retake 1 or more of the engineering classes that I scored below a C in? I know I can get an A in one of them (from F to A; major GPA boost since I've already take the first part of Physical Chemistry). Is it because as long as you meet the GPA 3.00 mark any GPA that is only slightly higher than 3.00 will do no good? How about retake a D in biochemistry? I know I can get an A in that class. The only reason I didn't was due to emotional damage from a death of a very close friend which resulted me in skipping 3 weeks worth of classes. Honestly, thinking back, that class was so easy. Or should I just mention that the fact I only performed poorly was due to a death and just mention it and explain in my SoP?

Honestly, I'm kinda surprised I have the GPA that I have right now given the terrible grades I mentioned.

On a side note, someone PMed me saying they know a friend who got into PhD Chemistry at University of Arizona with a 2.85 GPA and below 1000 GRE.

Edited February 9, 2011 by chaospaladin

[SyntheticOrganiker]

My advice (from someone who knows nothing about the process): Retake classes if and only if they don't interrupt the MUCH more important weakness in your profile - lack of research experience. You should spend your time getting more research, whether it's in inorganic/organic/bio chemistry...whatever, just get research. Any incremental increase in your GPA will be meaningless if you don't have the research experience to demonstrate to the better PhD programs that you won't just waste their money and fail out.

How do you even know you want to pursue a PhD if you only have 1 month of research experience (you could end up hating the stuff after 2 months, and you literally have about 5 years of research, so you should probably know if you enjoy it for an extended period of time)? You could easily teach highschool chemistry/biology/whatever with just a bachelors and a teaching certificate, and I think community college with only a masters (although I have no idea about this one).

Either way,main point: RESEARCH.

[chaospaladin]

Let's say a PhD Chemistry Program pays the application fee for its applicants, does that mean that the program is low on students and they want to encourage more applicants to apply to said PhD Chemistry Program? If this is the case, then can we conclude that said PhD Chemistry Program is a little bit easier to gain admission?

Is it true that most PhD Chemistry Programs give more priority to domestic applicants and less priority to international applicants? If this is true, then can we conclude that a PhD Chemistry Program with a larger proportion of international students is easier to gain admission than a PhD Chemistry Program with a smaller proportion of international students?

Thanks.

[Eigen]

No, and no.

It's many of the top programs that offer to pay application fees.... I'd say more often, it's the less competitive schools that still require the application fee, if you want to generalize.

And I don't think there are many programs that are much better than a 1/10 shot of getting in.

Domestic students often are preferred (language issues, staying in the country, research experience), but it really comes down to what you have to offer vs. what they do- our program probably ends up with half and half (10-11 students admitted), and I know we probably get 10 times that in qualified apps, more than half of them domestic. So even if you have a bias towards domestic students, it's still quite competitive. And looking at a current composition just tells you that even with the bias, the international students have consistently been that much better than that many domestic students.

[prolixity]

Let's say a PhD Chemistry Program pays the application fee for its applicants, does that mean that the program is low on students and they want to encourage more applicants to apply to said PhD Chemistry Program? If this is the case, then can we conclude that said PhD Chemistry Program is a little bit easier to gain admission?

Is it true that most PhD Chemistry Programs give more priority to domestic applicants and less priority to international applicants? If this is true, then can we conclude that a PhD Chemistry Program with a larger proportion of international students is easier to gain admission than a PhD Chemistry Program with a smaller proportion of international students?

Thanks.

By your logic, Harvard, with it's 40% international student population, must be the easiest program to enter.

[chaospaladin]

When PhD Chemistry programs admit students, do they admit students based on research group or they just evaluate students against every applicant applying into the program? In other words, let's say I know for a fact a particular Chemistry professor who is a Principal Investigator at a particular university who has very few graduate students in his or her research group due to the Principal Investigator having an extremely uninteresting areas and topics of research that no graduate students wants to do research in, would expressing interest in that research group by saying so in my Statement of Purpose increase my chances of getting into the school's PhD Chemistry Programs? I actually don't plan on deceiving anyone by switching to a different PI of a different area of interest if I do get accepted. I actually am interested in that particular research group with that professor. I just want to know my chances.

[Cantorg]

As a lot of people have already written, research and recommendation letters carry the most weight. As an international student, I got into UW Madison with a 3.0 overall GPA, a 2.99 chemistry GPA , and 3 C minuses in Biochemistry, the first quarter of Linear Algebra/Multivariable Calculus, and Physical Chemistry Lab. I almost got put on academic probation for withdrawing from a class my third year. I also never got a grade higher than a B plus in ANY of my chemistry class, save for one graduate level class where I got an A minus in.

You REALLY, REALLY need 1-3 years of research experience, and letters of recommendation from professors that know you very well. If you got an extremely high grade in a difficult exam of an upper level chemistry class, the letter of recommendation coming from that professor can carry quite a bit of weight. Letters like that can literally get you in anywhere.

Good luck!

Can you elaborate on why I should not retake 1 or more of the engineering classes that I scored below a C in? I know I can get an A in one of them (from F to A; major GPA boost since I've already take the first part of Physical Chemistry). Is it because as long as you meet the GPA 3.00 mark any GPA that is only slightly higher than 3.00 will do no good? How about retake a D in biochemistry? I know I can get an A in that class. The only reason I didn't was due to emotional damage from a death of a very close friend which resulted me in skipping 3 weeks worth of classes. Honestly, thinking back, that class was so easy. Or should I just mention that the fact I only performed poorly was due to a death and just mention it and explain in my SoP?

Honestly, I'm kinda surprised I have the GPA that I have right now given the terrible grades I mentioned.

On a side note, someone PMed me saying they know a friend who got into PhD Chemistry at University of Arizona with a 2.85 GPA and below 1000 GRE.

[chaospaladin]

Is it true that it is very difficult to find a job as a Physical Chemistry after getting a PhD in Physical Chemistry? I posted this in one of the other Chemistry thread, but I would like other opinions on this. Also can someone answer my previous post too? Thanks.

[Eigen]

Is it true that it is very difficult to find a job as a Physical Chemistry after getting a PhD in Physical Chemistry? I posted this in one of the other Chemistry thread, but I would like other opinions on this. Also can someone answer my previous post too? Thanks.

What happened to organic chemistry? It seems like you swapped areas of interest, any particular reason?