MDiv student considering a second master's?

[B-612]

Hi all,

I'm a 3rd year MDiv student at Vanderbilt who has a desire to get a PhD but, recognizing how competitive graduate programs are, am considering a second master's degree beforehand.

A few facts about me:

* Graduated cum laude from undergraduate university with majors in English, writing, philosophy and religion and a minor in global studies.

* In undergrad, worked at the Writing Center and as public relations officer for our gay-straight alliance.

* In graduate school, participated in ecological concerns group and as co-chair of our gay-straight alliance.

* Served internships as a chaplain/religion programmer for the university office of LGBT concerns and with the city's human rights commission.

* Graduate GPA is around a 3.5 (all Bs my first semester unfortunately were a bit of a blot on my record).

My interests lie in practical theology, theology of the body, Christianity in the world, and especially Christian existentialism. On top of this, my childhood dream has always been to be a writer, predominately for children or young adults.

I'm currently considering four types of degrees--MAs in religion (theology), philosophy (existentialism) or English (religious literature)--or a master of sacred theology with an Anglican studies focus. I was originally leaning toward the master of sacred theology, because if I studied at an Episcopal school I could gauge whether or not I felt a calling for ordination, but I'm also concerned about which degree would make me the strongest candidate for a PhD program where I could pursue studies in Christian existentialism. Also of importance to me is a program where I would be eligible for scholarships/grants, since having already obtained one master's degree will have placed me in student loan debt and whatever might ease this debt would be helpful.

Any recommendations for which degree would be most suitable and what universities would provide good scholarships/grants/funding for my purposes?

Many, many thanks!

Edited January 31, 2011 by besixdouze

[ZeChocMoose]

Hi all,

I'm a 3rd year MDiv student at Vanderbilt who has a desire to get a PhD but, recognizing how competitive graduate programs are, am considering a second master's degree beforehand.

A few facts about me:

* Graduated cum laude from undergraduate university with majors in English, writing, philosophy and religion and a minor in global studies.

* In undergrad, worked at the Writing Center and as public relations officer for our gay-straight alliance.

* In graduate school, participated in ecological concerns group and as co-chair of our gay-straight alliance.

* Served internships as a chaplain/religion programmer for the university office of LGBT concerns and with the city's human rights commission.

* Graduate GPA is around a 3.5 (all Bs my first semester unfortunately were a bit of a blot on my record).

My interests lie in practical theology, theology of the body, Christianity in the world, and especially Christian existentialism. On top of this, my childhood dream has always been to be a writer, predominately for children or young adults.

I'm currently considering four types of degrees--MAs in religion (theology), philosophy (existentialism) or English (religious literature)--or a master of sacred theology with an Anglican studies focus. I was originally leaning toward the master of sacred theology, because if I studied at an Episcopal school I could gauge whether or not I felt a calling for ordination, but I'm also concerned about which degree would make me the strongest candidate for a PhD program where I could pursue studies in Christian existentialism. Also of importance to me is a program where I would be eligible for scholarships/grants, since having already obtained one master's degree will have placed me in student loan debt and whatever might ease this debt would be helpful.

Any recommendations for which degree would be most suitable and what universities would provide good scholarships/grants/funding for my purposes?

Many, many thanks!

I don't know the field so you can take my advice with a grain of salt but I am not sure how a second master's degree will help you get accepted to a PhD program. Have you talked to faculty in your program? Do they recommend getting another master's?

I suppose if you wanted a second master's for a very specific reason i.e. it will show that you can teach courses in x,y,z field then I would apply to a PhD program that has a master's program that you would also like to do. Sometimes schools allow PhD students to do a concurrent master's. It will lengthen your time to degree and both departments have to agree to your enrolling in the two degrees.

If you are only interested in doing a second master's because you think it will make you more competitive, please get this confirmed.

Also you posted that you have student loan debt. If it is a significant amount, I would suggest working for a couple years before going back to get a PhD. Doing another master's is just going to add to this debt not reduce it.

[sacklunch]

I have a friend who did her MDiv at Candler, and is now getting an MTS (BC) because she wasn't prepared to go onto doctoral work. It seems like it is more common than it was in the past. I have been told it would make you more competitive, although this of course depends on your record. Also, I know of two others who have an MA in philosophy, as well as a theological degree, which seemed to work out pretty well for them when applying for doctoral work (both in Ivy PhD programs).

good luck.

[B-612]

Hi all,

I appreciate your thoughts.

Last year, all second year MDiv students had what was called a "middler review" in which they chatted with the dean of students, their academic advisors, and their field placement supervisors to chat about how they had progressed and to where they were progressing. The dean and faculty made it a point to tell students how difficult it was to get into doctoral programs and encouraged both the pursuing of a second master's and/or work experience in the fields of ministry, social justice advocacy, or non-profit work. Many of my current classmates already have one master's (one classmate even has a PhD in a field of science) and a PhD student who taught my Biblical Hebrew class has three master's (including a master's in passing). I think it's growing increasingly common; whether or not there is that much of a payoff is a serious question.

I think the thing I'm concerned about the most is finding a school who'll fund me. One degree at a private university like Vanderbilt already has me in debt.

I'm also wondering if there is a way I can study Christian existentialism while obtaining a degree/certificate that would make viable for ordination if that was a path I wanted to take. Hmm... Sorry, just thinking out loud here. Ramble ramble ramble.

[ZeChocMoose]

Hi all,

I appreciate your thoughts.

Last year, all second year MDiv students had what was called a "middler review" in which they chatted with the dean of students, their academic advisors, and their field placement supervisors to chat about how they had progressed and to where they were progressing. The dean and faculty made it a point to tell students how difficult it was to get into doctoral programs and encouraged both the pursuing of a second master's and/or work experience in the fields of ministry, social justice advocacy, or non-profit work. Many of my current classmates already have one master's (one classmate even has a PhD in a field of science) and a PhD student who taught my Biblical Hebrew class has three master's (including a master's in passing). I think it's growing increasingly common; whether or not there is that much of a payoff is a serious question.

I think the thing I'm concerned about the most is finding a school who'll fund me. One degree at a private university like Vanderbilt already has me in debt.

I'm also wondering if there is a way I can study Christian existentialism while obtaining a degree/certificate that would make viable for ordination if that was a path I wanted to take. Hmm... Sorry, just thinking out loud here. Ramble ramble ramble.

One thought and I have no idea how competitive this is: can you work for a college or university perhaps in the campus's faith-based services? One of my former roommates did this (campus minister) and she didn't even have a Master's of Divinity. Sometimes those type of positions offer tuition remission and you could take classes (free!) to study Christian existentialism. You might want to look at religious-affiliated colleges or colleges that have divinity schools attached for these type of positions.

Edited February 3, 2011 by ZeChocMoose

[abram]

Hi all,

I'm a 3rd year MDiv student at Vanderbilt who has a desire to get a PhD but, recognizing how competitive graduate programs are, am considering a second master's degree beforehand.

A few facts about me:

* Graduated cum laude from undergraduate university with majors in English, writing, philosophy and religion and a minor in global studies.

* In undergrad, worked at the Writing Center and as public relations officer for our gay-straight alliance.

* In graduate school, participated in ecological concerns group and as co-chair of our gay-straight alliance.

* Served internships as a chaplain/religion programmer for the university office of LGBT concerns and with the city's human rights commission.

* Graduate GPA is around a 3.5 (all Bs my first semester unfortunately were a bit of a blot on my record).

My interests lie in practical theology, theology of the body, Christianity in the world, and especially Christian existentialism. On top of this, my childhood dream has always been to be a writer, predominately for children or young adults.

I'm currently considering four types of degrees--MAs in religion (theology), philosophy (existentialism) or English (religious literature)--or a master of sacred theology with an Anglican studies focus. I was originally leaning toward the master of sacred theology, because if I studied at an Episcopal school I could gauge whether or not I felt a calling for ordination, but I'm also concerned about which degree would make me the strongest candidate for a PhD program where I could pursue studies in Christian existentialism. Also of importance to me is a program where I would be eligible for scholarships/grants, since having already obtained one master's degree will have placed me in student loan debt and whatever might ease this debt would be helpful.

Any recommendations for which degree would be most suitable and what universities would provide good scholarships/grants/funding for my purposes?

Many, many thanks!

Honestly, I would opt for a ThM from a top-tier school for one year of graduate study to compliment your MDiv degree. Another two years if graduate study seems like a little too much since your stats appear to be very good.

[B-612]

Honestly, I would opt for a ThM from a top-tier school for one year of graduate study to compliment your MDiv degree. Another two years if graduate study seems like a little too much since your stats appear to be very good.

It's good to know my stats appear very good. I'm honestly a bit embarrassed about my 3.5 GPA. I wish the four Honors credits were factored into it, but alas--it is not so. I have also considered a PhD program in English/writing (focused on religious literature) or a PhD program in philosophy (existentialism with an emphasis in Christian existentialism) may be easier to achieve since my master's degree is from a divinity school and I hear universities nowadays appreciate interdisciplinary studies. I'm just a little frightened that, no matter what, that 3.5 will show up to prevent me from getting into a top tier school. I think most of this fear is based on a friend who, when she met with a professor to discuss doctoral programs, related her GPA of 3.6 to which he replied, "You're no academic superstar."

[KreacherKeeper]

It's good to know my stats appear very good. I'm honestly a bit embarrassed about my 3.5 GPA. I wish the four Honors credits were factored into it, but alas--it is not so. I have also considered a PhD program in English/writing (focused on religious literature) or a PhD program in philosophy (existentialism with an emphasis in Christian existentialism) may be easier to achieve since my master's degree is from a divinity school and I hear universities nowadays appreciate interdisciplinary studies. I'm just a little frightened that, no matter what, that 3.5 will show up to prevent me from getting into a top tier school. I think most of this fear is based on a friend who, when she met with a professor to discuss doctoral programs, related her GPA of 3.6 to which he replied, "You're no academic superstar."

I am actually applying for a second Masters after my M.Div. because I found out during my M.Div work I really loved the academic study of religion and not so much the practical theology part of it, which would have made me a great religious professional. I do not have stellar stats, either (bad GRE), but when I spoke with my advisor, her advice to me was to try a MA level study to see if I really wanted a PhD program. If I hate it, it is a year or so of my life (and I get to study something I love). If I decide I really, absolutely must have the PhD, then I can go forward. I am applying now and I am really excited about the idea of a year or two of masters level, academic centered work.

Really, coming out of an M.Div. I did not feel I had the research experience to go directly into a PhD program, although some of my friends are and have done that (and are getting accepted with stats much like your (and mine). My program was definitely rigorous, but because of the many requirements, I did not have a chance to specialize.

So, I am happy with that choice.

Oh and by the way, ThM are often not funded. Harvard's for example, is not. While a Masters may take longer, it may actually be better for you in the long run.

But that is just my 2 cents!

[B-612]

I am actually applying for a second Masters after my M.Div. because I found out during my M.Div work I really loved the academic study of religion and not so much the practical theology part of it, which would have made me a great religious professional. I do not have stellar stats, either (bad GRE), but when I spoke with my advisor, her advice to me was to try a MA level study to see if I really wanted a PhD program. If I hate it, it is a year or so of my life (and I get to study something I love). If I decide I really, absolutely must have the PhD, then I can go forward. I am applying now and I am really excited about the idea of a year or two of masters level, academic centered work.

Really, coming out of an M.Div. I did not feel I had the research experience to go directly into a PhD program, although some of my friends are and have done that (and are getting accepted with stats much like your (and mine). My program was definitely rigorous, but because of the many requirements, I did not have a chance to specialize.

So, I am happy with that choice.

Oh and by the way, ThM are often not funded. Harvard's for example, is not. While a Masters may take longer, it may actually be better for you in the long run.

But that is just my 2 cents!

I appreciate whatever advice I receive and will take it into consideration. At this point, it's about finances as much as life goals (sad, sad, sad).