Funding only for two years

[garibaldi]

Hi - I applied to a state school and they are giving me tuition +18K stipend + insurance, for the first two years. This includes working for about 15-20 hrs a week as a TA (which is ok by me)

In the next 3 years, funding is not guaranteed. You have to apply for graduate research assistantships, and fellowships. Also tuition is not covered in the next three years (as I am an international student, this means generating 20K just for tuition from the school or external sources - this is what I am worried about). I will not take a loan for undertaking a PhD, so I have to be confident that I will be able to cover all my expenses through RA or fellowships. Typically, how hard is this?

What do you all think? Fair deal or not? Would you accept such a deal?

[newms]

I would accept such a deal if it was the best option for me. You would have to work hard from when you get there to look for funding opportunities, especially RA opportunities - if you were to go there you would have to try to get involved with the research that some profs are doing and then when you needed funding perhaps they would be willing to hire you as a RA. Perhaps you could also ask grad students at that program about how easy it is to get an RA after 2 years.

Edited February 9, 2011 by newms

[was1984]

It sounds reasonable to me. Basically, they are paying you as a TA while you are doing your coursework, and once you start doing your serious research you should look for a professor that can take you on as an RA and give you a project to work on for your dissertation.

[garibaldi]

Thank you Newms and Was1984.

So if I work hard and network right, I might land a RA by my third year there. I am actually quite confident that i will be able to manage this. But just RA will not cover tuition+living expenses (about 35K per year), no? Or will it?

You are right, I should ask current graduate students. But they take only 3-4 students per year, and most of them are American. I will look again to see if I can spot a current international phD student. I know they have had international students in their alumni though.

Might need to schedule another conversation with the professor...

Edited February 9, 2011 by garibaldi

[newms]

Thank you Newms and Was1984.

So if I work hard and network right, I might land a RA by my third year there. I am actually quite confident that i will be able to manage this. But just RA will not cover tuition+living expenses (about 35K per year), no? Or will it?

You are right, I should ask current graduate students. But they take only 3-4 students per year, and most of them are American. I will look again to see if I can spot a current international phD student. I know they have had international students in their alumni though.

Might need to schedule another conversation with the professor...

As I understand it, usually a RA covers most, if not all your tuition and you get a living stipend - I'm not sure if this is different at your program, you could check it out.

[Lustforlife]

I would accept such a deal if it was the best option for me. You would have to work hard from when you get there to look for funding opportunities, especially RA opportunities - if you were to go there you would have to try to get involved with the research that some profs are doing and then when you needed funding perhaps they would be willing to hire you as a RA. Perhaps you could also ask grad students at that program about how easy it is to get an RA after 2 years.

Be careful. The availability of RAships and opportunities to work with Professors can vary greatly by campus and department. I am in the humanities (I would imagine that the funding opportunities are somewhat similar to what you will find in the social sciences) at a large state school and I can't imagine how someone would just pick up the amount of money that you have described. At my institution, you would probably have to take out loans to cover the costs of the out of state tuition. Further, most people take classes for their first three years, which would make it extra difficult to pick up that kind of money in your third year.

This does not mean that your situation will be impossible. Every institution is different and it might be feasible to pick up $35,000 at your institution. However, I would strongly suggest that you make every effort to investigate the funding environment on your campus. Hopefully, there will be someone at your potential institution who can explain the financial implications of getting a PhD.

[Lustforlife]

PS. At my institution, TAships only cover one's in-state tuition. Since foreign students can not gain residency, they can never qualify for in-state tuition and have to pay out-of-state tuition for the entirety of their PhD. Some departments offer to make up the difference (for a certain number of years). It appears that garibaldi's school will pay the difference for the first two years but will not do so thereafter. At my institution, this would add on (approximately) an extra $15,000 per year.

[garibaldi]

Thanks LustforLife.

Yes, they said they would cover the full 20K of tuition fees, but only for the first two years. Thereafter, I would have to apply for fellowships and RAs. They explained to me exactly what you've said - that foreign students can never qualify for in-state tuition. However, it seemed to me that were saying that its possible to cover all expenses even in my case through fellowships, awards, RA, etc. Only after our conversation ended, did I begin to wonder if its actually at all feasible to cover this amount? I will have to ask them again. Wish I had asked for clarity straight away though.

Edited February 9, 2011 by garibaldi

[Lustforlife]

Thanks LustforLife.

Yes, they said they would cover the full 20K of tuition fees, but only for the first two years. Thereafter, I would have to apply for fellowships and RAs. They explained to me exactly what you've said - that foreign students can never qualify for in-state tuition. However, it seemed to me that were saying that its possible to cover all expenses even in my case through fellowships, awards, RA, etc. Only after our conversation ended, did I begin to wonder if its actually at all feasible to cover this amount? I will have to ask them again. Wish I had asked for clarity straight away though.

Good luck. Did you apply to work with a specific advisor? You might try to ask them or someone else for some kinds of specifics. How likely does it seem that you would get the necessary RAship, fellowship, etc... You might also ask them to name the specific fellowships/funding opportunities to which you will have to apply so that you can investigate these on your own.

[ohorly]

I would be very cautious about this. I am an international student as well and have found it very difficult to find fellowships to apply for. Also, while I have been offered several RA-ships, international students can only work a maximum of 20 hours a week during the school term. Depending where you are living, this may be very tight (especially if you include tuition).

[was1984]

Thank you Newms and Was1984.

So if I work hard and network right, I might land a RA by my third year there. I am actually quite confident that i will be able to manage this. But just RA will not cover tuition+living expenses (about 35K per year), no? Or will it?

You are right, I should ask current graduate students. But they take only 3-4 students per year, and most of them are American. I will look again to see if I can spot a current international phD student. I know they have had international students in their alumni though.

Might need to schedule another conversation with the professor...

RA positions generally pay better than TA positions, at least in the sciences and engineering. You should really discuss this with the graduate coordinator directly before accepting.

[StrangeLight]

RA positions generally pay better than TA positions, at least in the sciences and engineering. You should really discuss this with the graduate coordinator directly before accepting.

RAships in the social sciences and humanities PAY LESS than, or at best the same as, TAships. it's a different animal in social sciences.

fellowships for international students can be difficult to come by. contact current grad students in the program and ask them to be up front with you about how competitive funding is for the years where it's not guaranteed. they'll give you a more honest sense of how difficult it would be to find the money for the last 3 years.

[t_ruth]

I would talk to current students at the program, especially foreign students. I believe my school offers people two or three years only, but has been able to cover everyone at least four years; however, there are large budget cuts at most state schools, so you never know.

[neuropsychosocial]

They explained to me exactly what you've said - that foreign students can never qualify for in-state tuition.

At some schools, anyone holding a TA position qualifies for in-state tuition, even international students. (If the university is covering your tuition, then it's much cheaper for them to consider you "in-state.") It might be worth investigating that option. It sounds like this is a difficult situation for you; if you can't find funding, out-of-state tuition would be a high burden. I'm also wondering how your visa status would be affected if you didn't have financial support from the university; I know very little about it, but I thought international students had to provide proof of financing to be given a visa? Or is that only for one of J-1/H-1?

[garibaldi]

<br />At some schools, anyone holding a TA position qualifies for in-state tuition, even international students. (If the university is covering your tuition, then it's much cheaper for them to consider you &quot;in-state.&quot;) It might be worth investigating that option. It sounds like this is a difficult situation for you; if you can't find funding, out-of-state tuition would be a high burden. I'm also wondering how your visa status would be affected if you didn't have financial support from the university; I know very little about it, but I thought international students had to provide proof of financing to be given a visa? Or is that only for one of J-1/H-1?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Thank you. Both the points you raise are good ones. Perhaps if I can get a TA/RA, the tuition is automatically waived.

And yes, now you've got me thinking about the visa. I figured showing 2 years assured funding might be sufficient for that, but if they want to see funds for all five years, then this option is actually totally out of the question.

I have emailed current grad students. Lets see what they say. Regardless, the visa situation might make this option completely unviable...

[kateow]

I agree with everyone about contacting current students, so good move doing that.

I would be very skeptical about a funding package that dries up after two years. They know there's no way to finish a PhD in that time, so it's an easy way for them to get slave labor out of you (through TAships) for the subsequent ten years while you try to find the time to do your own research and writing... Or, you're out in two years with a compensatory MA.

Try to find a guarantee of better funding. Two years with no promises *in writing* for more to follow is a kind of scam, in my opinion.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't accept this funding myself. I think it's a particularly risky situation for an international student. And I think the school probably knows that and should be ashamed of themselves.

Also, what state? I would be willing to bet some people on this forum have some experience or knowledge about some of the larger state systems, at least... NY, CA?

Edited February 13, 2011 by kateow

[garibaldi]

<br />I agree with everyone about contacting current students, so good move doing that. <br /><br />I would be very skeptical about a funding package that dries up after two years. They know there's no way to finish a PhD in that time, so it's an easy way for them to get slave labor out of you (through TAships) for the subsequent ten years while you try to find the time to do your own research and writing... Or, you're out in two years with a compensatory MA. <br />Try to find a guarantee of better funding. Two years with no promises *in writing* for more to follow is a kind of scam, in my opinion. <br /><br />To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't accept this funding myself. I think it's a particularly risky situation for an international student. And I think the school probably knows that and should be ashamed of themselves. <br /><br />Also, what state? I would be willing to bet some people on this forum have some experience or knowledge about some of the larger state systems, at least... NY, CA?<br />

Hi, its UNC - University of North Carolina.

Couldnt agree more regarding the risks it represents for international students.

[garibaldi]

&lt;br /&gt;

Hi, its UNC - University of North Carolina. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Couldnt agree more regarding the risks it represents for international students.&lt;br /&gt;

I will add - that this is their standard policy for this program and written on their website, so its not a sham or anything. Just want to be fair to them

Edited February 13, 2011 by garibaldi