The rigor of grad school

[electrifice]

After coming back from a midterm in my last year of undergraduate education, I couldn't help but think about what the importance of class is like in graduate school. I am aware that the material is far tougher but what is the overall attitude of graduate students and professors towards class and grades?

I have always done best and learned the most in those classes where the material is presented in an "it is what it is" manner. And some of these courses (...plasma physics, for example) were very tough but I enjoyed them thoroughly, studied for them as necessary, and did well. It felt like a good work-out where I needed to push myself but was easily motivated to do so because I could feel the difference this would make. These classes, although very challenging, felt straightforward and the grades always took care of themselves.

On the other hand, I've had various classes (too many) that were not quite as hard in subject matter but were taught carelessly (serious lack of enthusiasm), and "made" harder than they needed to be... to the point that one would just trudge through a heap of mindless equations and numbers to get an answer that neither made sense nor helped your understanding in any way. Not to mention, this would immediately cause you to lose interest in that topic. And the professors had no problem doing this to the students because the classes were large and a good number of people would always end up complying without any reservations, severing all feedback between students and professor.

So my question is... are classes more personal in graduate school? Do students have more control in that the professors are more sensitive of the requirements of the students? Or is class again bound to be an experience no one really likes but everyone voluntarily subjects themselves to? To those trying to read too hard between the lines, this isn't about whether grad school is easy or hard... it ought to be challenging, but does it also become more useful? It's just that I can't help but feel that a lot of my undergraduate classes were a waste of time.

Edited February 16, 2011 by electrifice

[sacklunch]

Honestly I haven't noticed a "huge" difference from UG to grad, at least thus far. I'm in the humanities, not the sciences, and I also went to a good small private school with intimate classes and caring profs, so perhaps I just had a really good UG experience??

I have heard it is harder for some of my peers who did their UG at bigger state schools. The classes are much smaller and the professors expect you to really engage the material by doing more papers, less tests, ect.

shalom

[fuzzylogician]

I'm in a different field than you but my guess is the answer varies widely within disciplines as well.

It depends. On the professor, on the other students, on the program requirements. There's less structure and less pressure to get X material across, so I think in general it's easier to go on excursions into unplanned topics of special interest to the students in grad classes. There are whole threads about grad school grades but at least in my program the grades really don't matter that much. Anyone who does decent work will get an A. Classes are designed to support your research, they are a means to an end, nothing more. Yes, there are requirements you have to sit through even if you're not terribly interested in the material, that is almost unavoidable. But in the end it's the research that will get you a job after you graduate, not a 4.0 GPA., and that is something that the professors know and keep in mind.

ETA: I didn't do my undergrad in the US but I wouldn't be surprised if undergrad classes at my school turn out to be much more structured and allow less "freedom".

Edited February 16, 2011 by fuzzylogician

[ScreamingHairyArmadillo]

Depends on the class. I'm taking two courses outside of my department, and they're practically like my undergrad classes. The professors are not my departmental mentors, so in most cases I'm just another score to input in the grading rubric. I've so far only taken one course in my department, and it was much different. The scores didn't seem as important as how I presented my work (which was all writing - 2 written take home tests and a final paper).

As far as usefulness goes, I do find all of my course material much more useful. I find the lecture period a waste of time.

[electrifice]

Honestly I haven't noticed a "huge" difference from UG to grad, at least thus far. I'm in the humanities, not the sciences, and I also went to a good small private school with intimate classes and caring profs, so perhaps I just had a really good UG experience??

I have heard it is harder for some of my peers who did their UG at bigger state schools. The classes are much smaller and the professors expect you to really engage the material by doing more papers, less tests, ect.

shalom

I'm from a large school and what you describe (smaller classes, expected to engage, less tests and more constructive work) is a departure from MY undergrad experience. And I like what you've said so far.. classes that are focused more on learning and engaging than on grades, competition, curves, and workload. That's what I meant by the "attitude" of classes.

There are whole threads about grad school grades but at least in my program the grades really don't matter that much. Anyone who does decent work will get an A. Classes are designed to support your research, they are a means to an end, nothing more. Yes, there are requirements you have to sit through even if you're not terribly interested in the material, that is almost unavoidable.

I think this is how it should be. Classes make much more sense when there is a reason to be there, and not just for a requirement to graduate. The way it is in undergrad, what you do (or don't) learn in classes just never seems to have any serious consequences. All the things that I've used in my research/experiments I've had to re-learn (even though I did well in those classes), and the same goes for everything else too.

As far as usefulness goes, I do find all of my course material much more useful. I find the lecture period a waste of time.

Story of my life!

[robot_hamster]

I agree with the others and think it really depends on the school and your area of study. For me, I went to a small private college for my undergrad. The classes were small and it was easy to develop a good relationship with your professors. The lower level classes all tended to be "it is what it is" sort of material, but the upper level class were way different. Those were the classes that really made you think. Many professors preferred group discussions and presenting material through current issues/topics. A lot of the time, there wasn't a single correct answer. We were forced to look at things from a different perspective than our own. So in that sense, the classes could be very challenging. Grad school, for me, has been an entirely different experience. I am attending a large state university and a lot of the classes are taught in a way where you simply memorize everything and then answer the questions on the test. These classes, however, are also classes that contain both undergraduate and graduate students. I get the feeling from these classes that the professor is expecting you to get a good grade. I have taken one class that was only graduate students though. This class was much more discussion based and it focused on reading, writing papers, and giving presentations. This class reminded me much more of my upper level undergraduate classes and it seemed the professor wasn't as concerned about what you did. As long as you put an appropriate amount of effort into your work, then you would most likely get an A. I have noticed in some of my classes that some grad students were not doing very well on their tests. My guess is that they were either focused on their research or their TAing or both and simply didn't have the time to study adequately. How their adviser feels about their grades in these classes, I have no idea. My adviser hasn't really said much about grades. I do know that it is a general requirement to maintain a 3.0 GPA though in order to remain in the program.

[was1984]

As an electrical engineering masters student, I've definitely enjoyed coursework more. For one thing, you take fewer classes, so you aren't trying to drink from the fire hose quite as much. The small class size and the fact that most of the students actually care about learning means that the classes often develop a strong interactive component and become almost like discussions. Also, grades are of negligible concern, and I've noticed that people don't really cram for exams, they just learn the material as they go and spend a few hours reviewing before tests. That's always been my M.O., so I really appreciate the change in pace.

[modernity]

In my opinion the classes I've taken so far are somewhat helpful, but in other ways are distracting from thesis work. The amount of work thats demanded of you from your classes can take away time from your own personal work, but sometimes they can help contribute to your thesis. It really just depends on the class, the professor, the department, etc. I've had classes that are very helpful in narrowing down thesis work, and others that have been mostly a waste of time that could have been better spent elsewhere. Its very subjective.