another classic deadlock

[the17thscream]

Hey all,

I'm in art history focusing on the rather small field of German art, and I have gotten it down to a choice between two institutions:

A) NYU

--super prestigious and highly ranked

--great professors but no one I really click academically with (no germanists), though all are open to me pursuing my own interests when I'm there

--little to no funding the first year with promise of funding if my work is up to par

--prefer the overall program, which is large and has lots of options/opportunities in NYC

--amazing city, wouldn't have to move, but very high cost of living

Bryn Mawr

--less prestigious but well-respected (I think?)

--two professors (both germanists) whom I really really want to work with

--full funding plus a fellowship/stipend renewable over 4 years

--small program with lots of personal attention, but limited in scope (but my field is well represented)

--just outside of a great city with a high but not as high as NYC cost of living

My greatest concern with NYU is that the competition for funding, advisors, etc. might be distracting; my greatest concern with Bryn Mawr is that I'm coming from an Ivy league undergraduate institution, and I don't want the move from Ivy to smaller less prestigious program to handicap me professionally. I have talked to my advisors about both, and most of the advice tends to be "go where you will write the best dissertation possible", but as much as I'd love to believe that we're all being judged exclusively on our work, I'm afraid that just isn't the case...

Any advice would be very helpful.

[studentfromLA]

I wouldn't go to a Ph.D. program with "little to no" funding nor any experts in my field, no matter how prestigious. It sounds like they are setting you up to fail, with only a promise of later funding "if your work is up to par." What does that mean, anyhow? And it sounds like, even if you are up to par, you are going to have to compete for funding in later years. Art History is not a degree for which you want to incur significant debt, and even one year at NYU without funding is going to set you back a big chunk of change.

What is the placement like for graduates of the Bryn Mawr program? Are they hired at places you'd like to work? If so, then I think it's a no brainer to take the better funding offer at the program with profs in your field, regardless of whether the program is a little less prestigious overall.

[the17thscream]

studentfromla,

You are absolutely right. I am certainly leaning heavily towards Bryn Mawr, but what is stopping me from embracing it wholeheartedly is the prestige issue (also since the program is so small, but placement strikes me as quite erratic in terms of the types of places people end up), which manifests in the reactions of my professors at my undergrad Ivy. I've only gotten funding at non-super prestigious schools, so they ask my what my GPA is again and then, after I tell them, look very confused (these are profs who wrote my LORs and have read my PS, etc) and say, well, it's mostly about the dissertation anyway. Anyway, I'm visiting both places this weekend, and I plan to bring up the funding situation at NYU (they don't know about my other funding offers, and I have heard a couple of stories about people who have successfully negotiated funding after describing a much better offer at a different institution)...if I am successful I guess I will be in a whole different boat, as I do prefer the overall program at NYU.

[studentfromLA]

I think you will have a MUCH better idea of what you want to do after you visit. Definitely see if you can get a firm funding offer from NYU, but most importantly, you need to get a feel for how well you will be able to achieve your Ph.D. goals working with professors who are not experts in your field. While it is tempting to place a high value on the prestige of a program, that should not be your only consideration.

I just today rejected admission at a school that was ranked #2 in my field for one ranked a little lower, because the higher-ranked school was wishy-washy on the funding, which made me feel like they were wishy-washy on me overall, whereas the slightly lower ranked school loves me as a candidate, has offered me full funding+stipend, and is really excited that I am going to attend their program. The ranking issue wasn't that big a deal in my case, since the lower ranked school is around #4-5 in the field, and people from their program work as profs at the #2 ranked school. For me, the visits were KEY, because after visiting the #2 ranked school, I realized that I would have to work really hard there to get what was already on the table for me at the other program, and it became clear the people and opportunities at the #4 program were more well-suited to what I wanted to do in grad school.

Good luck!

[dedalus]

Honestly, I would not say that NYU is any more prestigious than Bryn Mawr. It has a big name that everyone recognizes because it's in New York and it has a lot of programs, but Bryn Mawr has a *very* strong reputation in the liberal arts, and they're one of the best places in the country to do classics (and probably other things).

While I don't really know anything about art history there, no one is going to look down at Bryn Mawr's name.

And also, you should know that Main Line Philadelphia is very expensive. Not as expensive as New York, but if you want to live outside of Philly, look at the towns closer to the city like Ardmore and Wynnewood.

[mando4]

I would not choose NYU. The other school offers more support, financially and academically in your interests. I think it would be better to have professors more knowledgeable in your specific study than you kind of trying to figure it out on your own. Plus, full funding! you don't want to break the bank that first year NYU and then HOPE to get funding.. what if you don't when you had the chance at another school to go for FREEEEEEE?! good luck! at least you got in

[the17thscream]

...and I just got full tuition from NYU...24 hours to decide. ::freaking out::

[rising_star]

I still wouldn't choose NYU. Paying your tuition is nice but you still need to pay rent, eat, buy books, etc. Is NYU worth being $15K in debt for a year from now?

[the17thscream]

I'm honestly torn between the two. NYU typically does not fund first year students at all, and they seem to really want me. While I prefer the overall program at the IFA, Bryn Mawr has professors that are more appropriate to my specific field. Although the IFA is offering me full tuition, I know how difficult it is financially to live in New York, and Bryn Mawr's offer would ensure that I wouldn't have to work beyond perhaps a workstudy job in the library or something. On the other hand, the IFA is certainly a top rated program, and it is always at least somewhat of an advantage to have a big name behind a resume. Should I place more emphasis on the program or the professors? The funding or the prestige/placement? Should I email Bryn Mawr and ask them for more money? This new development has thrown me for quite a spin...24 hours to decide where to spend the next 7-10 years of my life!

[rising_star]

I would emphasize the professors and the program.

[the17thscream]

rising_star,

Thanks for the advice...between a fantastic overall program with great professors outside of your field or a strong overall program with professors that are an excellent with your interests, which would you pick? I'm aware that my interests may change, but I don't anticipate it since I've been in the German art thing for 6 years now with shifts in interest remaining within my subfield.

[rising_star]

i'd pick the one with professors who are excellent and share my interests.