Yale ($) or Stanford (free) for MA on way to PhD

[yticnineb]

Hi all, I really hate to dedicate a thread to my own dilemma, but I find that, looking at other people's decision-making, there's often a clear best option.

I am pursuing an MA in African Studies, with hopes of eventually pursuing a PhD in Political Science (I'm open to other fields, as well, and I might consider law). I didn't major in Poli Sci undergrad, but I do have four years of work experience in a range of development and international law settings. I hope that the MA will help me contextualize my work experiences, offer an opportunity for language study, and guide me toward a discipline for my terminal degree. My options:

Yale Council on African Studies-- I love this program. I had a great, very encouraging visit, and I know I could figure out my research interests and write thesis in two years at Yale. Lots of faculty doing work that interests me. However, I have no funding for the first year. I think I stand a decent chance of second-year funding, based on a conversation with the director this week, but it's not guaranteed.

Stanford MA in African Studies-- Stanford is a great school and I could draw on some phenomenal departments (global justice, political science, anthropology). However, this is a new program, and it's only a year. I worry that it just isn't enough time to clarify my research interests and really benefit from the resources at the school. I likely wouldn't have time to write a thesis. This could be a good experience, or it might not benefit me at all. They are offering full funding plus a small stipend, so I won't lose anything except a year of my life if it doesn't work out.

I have no undergrad or other debt, but I don't have a lot of money, either. Is it ever worth it to take out loans for an MA just because it's a dream program? Is it stupid to turn down a fully-funded MA? Help. And thanks!

[Penelope Higgins]

I would go to Stanford in a heartbeat. The advantage of Yale just isn't worth the money. There are lots of interesting folks at Stanford, and African Studies (although the MA is new) is a very strong part of the university.

In addition, if a thesis is optional (not required) there is no real need to write one even if you apply to PhD programs - the most important thing is to use the year to develop the background you need to have a good research agenda as you go into PhD programs, and to make the connections needed to get strong LoRs from prominent folks. You can justify this decision (as I did) on your applications by saying that you gave preference to coursework over thesis so that you could make a fully informed decision about the discipline within which you wanted to pursue your study of Africa.

you've got two (three?) great options, but it just doesn't seem worth the $$$ to pay for Yale.

[Peter]

Agreed. Go to Stanford. And honestly, while the name brand school tag shouldn't exist, it does. I'm relatively certain you could submit nothing but a mediocre writing sample and the names of your recommenders, GRE, and the brand of your school will safely carry you to a PhD program. I wouldn't pay $ for Yale.

I would wonder, however, why you're not getting an MA in POLS....

[yticnineb]

Thanks for the input! I guess the nice thing about a year-long program is that even though I won't be able to apply to PhDs this coming fall, I could take the 2009-2010 year to work or research in West Africa. Peter, I almost applied for the MA in POLS at Columbia, but then the Stanford money came through and I figured it was going to be down to Stanford or Yale-- and I'm not 100% sure I want to do political science, but I am sure about my regional interest, so I thought I'd try an interdisciplinary approach.

[silencio1982]

without a doubt, stanford- just make sure to come out with a quality research paper (not necessarily a thesis) AND be sure you are aggressive in making connections with faculty- which is sometimes tough to do in the space of a year. but, it is worth to go for the money and stanford is a very, very high quality school, everyone knows that!

[Penelope Higgins]

I came to poli sci from an interdisciplinary MA in a different world area. I recommend this approach as a great way to figure out how you want to approach the study of Africa. Focus on the breadth of disciplines in your year, and you will be well suited to apply to PhD programs thereafter.

[rising_star]

Definitely Stanford.

[eve2008]

If you're just getting an MA so as to figure out what to do with your life:

It really depends on what you want to do. I assume, because you are posting here, that you are leaning toward graduate study in political science. If that be the case, definitely go to Stanford! The Africanists in the poli sci department at Stanford are top-notch--among the best in the country right now (although the senior guy will be on leave 2008-2009). So, if you wanted to continue on at an institution (in their political science department) after your MA, Stanford, not Yale, would be the ideal place. Bear in mind that political science in general, but especially at Stanford, and increasingly in the study of Africa, is highly quantitative.

If you are less certain you want to study political science, and you can afford the debt, I would just look carefully at all the Africanist faculty across the disciplines that interest you (political science, economics, history, anthropology, etc.), and figure out which university has the best breadth and depth of specific faculty you are especially keen on working with, and make your choice that way.

If you are getting an MA to shore up a weak spot in your application:

I agree with the above posters that you don't need to write a master's thesis for admission to a great Ph.D program, but you ought to write a research paper you can use as your writing sample, ideally grounded in the discipline you ultimately decide you want to enter. (If you can publish it, all the better!) That said, did you write a thesis as an undergraduate? If not, then writing a thesis might be worthwhile in itself, because academia is about research, not coursework, and it's sort of impossible to know if you like research unless you have had the chance to do it before. Do you have faculty (preferably well-known and senior) from your undergraduate institution who can write glowing letters for you? If so, then you probably only need one additional letter of recommendation from your MA program, which you can definitely get in a year.

If you are aiming for a top-notch Ph.D program, and you have weak/no letters from undergrad and/or a scant research record, you might consider Yale simply because you'll have more time to develop those relationships, and do research.

So while I would go to Stanford, it really depends on your individual situation. (I assume, because you were able to get into these programs, you probably already have a pretty strong record to begin with.)

Congrats on your great options.

Agreed. Go to Stanford. And honestly, while the name brand school tag shouldn't exist, it does. I'm relatively certain you could submit nothing but a mediocre writing sample and the names of your recommenders, GRE, and the brand of your school will safely carry you to a PhD program. I wouldn't pay $ for Yale.

I would wonder, however, why you're not getting an MA in POLS....

You're kidding, right?

[yticnineb]

Thanks, everyone! I am definitely not under the impression that I'd be able to just turn in a mediocre application with a brand name on my CV and waltz into a PhD program.

Eve, my undergrad major was English and I did a creative writing thesis (yikes), so while I have high grades and strong recommendations from there, they're pretty much not applicable to what I hope to do now. Yale would be great for the opportunity to make lots of faculty connections and get a great writing sample finished, but I think what I'll do is work really hard at Stanford and use the freedom that comes with no loan obligations to get a great work/research experience and work on my applications in the year following the program. Stanford just offered summer language funding, too, which helps, as I'll have an easier time with the language classes next year if I get a leg up on them this summer.

Penelope, I'm glad to hear a recommendation for the interdisciplinary MA. I've been having a great time combing the course bulletin and realizing that fields I never considered are engaged in the issues I want to study. I clearly had no conception of what Anthropology entails, for instance.

Soooo, Stanford it is. yay!

[yticnineb]

...and I just got offered Yale funding. Stanford asked for a reply by the 14th (is that allowed?), so I said yes to the scholarship yesterday. I am going to vom.

[eve2008]

Where do you want to go? You should call the office FIRST THING TOMORROW and explain your situation if you want to go to Yale. They may need to write a letter or something, but they will in all likelihood release you from your obligation (this is a day or two we're talking about here). You may also want to call Yale and tell them that your funding information arrived so late, you had already accepted another offer. The schools may be able to talk to each other, and that way at least Yale would hold the funding for you for awhile while this all gets sorted out. I don't know if this varies by department, but I do know of people who accepted offers at Stanford before, but were admitted to other Dream U well after the 15th, and was able to get Stanford to release them from their commitment.

Just decide ASAP where you really want to go (if funding is no longer and issue). There is very low likelihood Stanford will force you to enroll in their program.

If you are interested in political science, I still think Stanford is a great choice, especially if you can take graduate-level political science classes as part of your area studies MA (but if you have never taken poli sci before, they are not for the faint-hearted!) You would be well-positioned, I think, to be accepted to their political science department if you can knock the socks off of a political science faculty member while you are there, and Stanford is one of very very best for political science right now. Of course, you could probably get admitted to many top programs from Yale, also.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, and I wouldn't give up on Yale just because you already sent the form to Stanford!

[yticnineb]

Eve, thanks for the reinforcement. I was able to sneak out of work for a little while this afternoon, sit on a curb in the parking lot, and hash it out via cellphone with various concerned parties. I felt terrible about it, but I turned down the Stanford offer, apologizing and stressing that they should tell me if it would be a problem for them. They said OK, and I took Yale.

I DO think that the MA at Stanford would have been great. J.W. in Political Science being out on sabbatical in 2008-2009 did give me pause, as his interests are closest to mine. The chance to really dig in and do a thesis/get recommendations over two years at Yale tipped the scales. It's kind of nice, too, to get settled somewhere for two years (I just calculated that I've moved 11 or 12 times in less than eight years), and Yale makes it a little easier to occasionally see my SO in Baltimore.

The whole thing has left me feeling queasy and unsure, which is a shame, as I felt so great about my decision last night after I'd made it. But Yale was my first choice going in and my first choice after examining the programs and, while the bay area weather when I visited in February was absolutely seductive and the political science department at Stanford is extraordinary, given the paucity of my background in the field, I think this is the best choice.

It better be, anyway, as it's all done now. I still feel so bad about the whole thing. I'll be writing a really heartfelt letter to Stanford soon, as they were great the whole way through the process.

Thanks, everyone. It's rough finishing this and feeling kind of deflated.

[rising_star]

Let us know how the program at Yale is! I'm very intrigued and would totally consider going if I knew I'd get funding for it.

[lenin333]

Here is a little diddy on your situation:

So you wanted t'go t'grad school,

Thought you had a shot,

So you threw your apps in the pool,

But random chance decided your lot.

One question might now remain,

Utility or Prospect?

Which theory best fits your domain,

Free MA or self-respect?

[i realize that the last line might not fit and the opposition is pretty crude, but hell, it rhymes.]

Good Luck at Yale!

[yticnineb]

Lenin, I hope I've been able to maneuver my way to a free MA while keeping my self-respect intact. I'm so grateful.

Rising_star, you're a geographer! That's one of those amazing, interdisciplinary fields that I never really knew existed when I had my nose buried in modern literature and continental philosophy as an undergrad. Also, I'm starting to think that, for US citizens (don't know if you're one), FLAS funding is the way to go.

[rising_star]

hahaha, geography is awesome. I encourage you to consider it when you finish your MA. But seriously, I'm looking for more training in African Studies and I was looking at Stanford, Yale, and UIUC pretty seriously before I decided to just take the plunge for the PhD. I'm hoping maybe I can do an exchange program or something where I go to one of those schools for a bit.