SAIS vs. SIPA

[cjackson]

Trying to decide between these two for international affairs. No money offered from either, so will be taking all loans. SAIS first year is in Bologna. Thoughts anyone?

[evitable]

Is there a reason to attend SIPA over SAIS? I received full scholarship + living stipend to SAIS, and about a half tuition fellowship to SIPA. Columbia would put me in debt whereas I'd be debt free with JHU.

[evitable]

I think Columbia has the more recognizable name in any field but there are pros and cons to each location, DC or NY. You might be able to get more private sector jobs by living in New York and more policy jobs in DC.

SAIS also has more of a quantitative focus, which could be a good or bad thing.

[ajc777]

I think Columbia has the more recognizable name in any field but there are pros and cons to each location, DC or NY. You might be able to get more private sector jobs by living in New York and more policy jobs in DC.

SAIS also has more of a quantitative focus, which could be a good or bad thing.

Also accepted to both schools... SAIS also places very well in the private sector if you take a look at the employment outcomes from 2010--particularly in consulting and finance. Outside of IR, the Columbia name might be a bit more recognizable than Johns Hopkins, but within the field SAIS is generally regarded as the #1 or #2 program I believe. Both schools are great and I plan on attending the admitted student days before making a final decision. On the one hand, it would be great to live in NYC for two years and take advantage of everything that has to offer. With SAIS, the Bologna program is appealing because of the networking and camaraderie among the students. Can't go wrong either way.

[cckrspnl56]

It's a touch choice. I wanted to work within the government, but now that I am going into massive debt I will have to go to the private sector. I'd love to go back to Italy with SAIS, but I'll have to work and an EU visa is impossible. Not sure right now...

Are you a US Citizen? You can always use the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program

[greendiplomat]

Also accepted to both schools... SAIS also places very well in the private sector if you take a look at the employment outcomes from 2010--particularly in consulting and finance. Outside of IR, the Columbia name might be a bit more recognizable than Johns Hopkins, but within the field SAIS is generally regarded as the #1 or #2 program I believe. Both schools are great and I plan on attending the admitted student days before making a final decision. On the one hand, it would be great to live in NYC for two years and take advantage of everything that has to offer. With SAIS, the Bologna program is appealing because of the networking and camaraderie among the students. Can't go wrong either way.

I agree that we seem to be setting up false dichotomies here. Namely:

• 
  
  
• "SIPA is better for private sector jobs" - As acj777 mentions, SAIS also places very well in the private sector;
  
• "SAIS is better for public sector jobs" - While SAIS tends to place better in public sector jobs overall (due to the abundance of opportunities in DC, i.e. federal jobs, think tanks, IMF, World Bank), SIPA tends to place better in similar jobs based in NYC (i.e. the UN); and
  
• "SAIS is more quantitative" - SAIS definitely has the more quantitative-/econ-heavy core curriculum, but that's not to say that you can't elect to take similarly rigorous coursework at other schools. Additionally, one of SAIS’ drawbacks is that, since JHU’s main campus is in Baltimore, you can’t cross-register in classes in the university’s graduate-level econ, math, stats, and other departments like you can at Columbia. (For instance, given my career goals, I would benefit more from taking Advanced Micro after an intermediate-level micro course (Micro at SAIS / Econ Analysis I at SIPA) than I would from taking International Trade, so SIPA makes more sense for me than does SAIS.

Overall, the lesson here, is that, while these "[school A] is more [Factor X] than [school B]" statements are useful for initial research on the schools, when making the decision about what school to go to, it's more useful to look more specifically into how each school fits your specific goals, for instance, in which specific organizations/firms/industries each school has a larger alumni base, or what specific classes you can take at each school.

[prabbit]

Green Diplomat -

Thanks for your insight.

Fyi, Ive been admitted to SIPA, SAIS and Fletchers (and waitlisted at HKS, but thats a whole different story). I have a half tuition scholarship with Fletchers. Currently, I'm really trying to decide between SIPA and Fletchers (mainly because of the aid at Fletchers.) I'm from the private sector, but Im open to anything after graduation - in other words, I have no clue where I'd like to end up. I dont want to end up in debt, so Fletchers looks very attractive. SIPA on the other hand is better known and has the advantage of NYC.

Thoughts?

[DaveE]

For what it's worth, I made my decision between these two based on the curriculum I would study rather than the "employment reputations" based on sectors. I'm going into International Security studies, and was originally attracted to SAIS because of the Strategic Studies concentration. After looking more closely, however, I noticed that the concentrations at SAIS left little room once all the primary pre-requisites were out of the way. Although I like economics, SAIS would basically want me to concentrate in it, with a little flavor of my own on the side. SIPA, on the other hand, seems to have more options for electives and courses that I actually want to take. I figure, I have two years to figure out what kind of job I really want, and living in NYC won't hurt my entertainment value :-)

Edited March 23, 2011 by DaveE

[Luiz]

Green Diplomat -

Thanks for your insight.

Fyi, Ive been admitted to SIPA, SAIS and Fletchers (and waitlisted at HKS, but thats a whole different story). I have a half tuition scholarship with Fletchers. Currently, I'm really trying to decide between SIPA and Fletchers (mainly because of the aid at Fletchers.) I'm from the private sector, but Im open to anything after graduation - in other words, I have no clue where I'd like to end up. I dont want to end up in debt, so Fletchers looks very attractive. SIPA on the other hand is better known and has the advantage of NYC.

Thoughts?

Hi prabbit, I'm exactly in the same situation. I have pretty much ruled out SAIS, so I'm torn between Fletcher and SIPA. Half tuition at Fletcher and no funding at SIPA. My mind says Fletcher but my heart says SIPA.

I was also admitted at IR/PS with almost full-funding and going there should be the most rational decision, but I think it will badly hurt my career objective of landing a job at an UN agency. I hope I can make my mind soon.

[prabbit]

Thats good to know we're on the same boat! I agree that IR/PS still lacks the brand value of these schools. Keep me posted on your final decision...I havent started really investigating yet...

Hi prabbit, I'm exactly in the same situation. I have pretty much ruled out SAIS, so I'm torn between Fletcher and SIPA. Half tuition at Fletcher and no funding at SIPA. My mind says Fletcher but my heart says SIPA.

I was also admitted at IR/PS with almost full-funding and going there should be the most rational decision, but I think it will badly hurt my career objective of landing a job at an UN agency. I hope I can make my mind soon.

[carpecc]

I was looking at both these programs really closely and know graduates from each. Here's my thoughts.

1. 
   
   
2. If you love econ, SAIS is more quantitative obsessed, with a ton of econ classes in the core requirements. At SIPA you can choose to be a super econ specialist and take the exact same econ offerings as SAIS, but you can also avoid econ if it's not your thing.
   
3. SIPA has much more flexible curriculum. About 8 required courses, leaving room for around 12 courses for specializations and electives. The range covered in SIPA is very broad.
   
4. SAIS has a greater (and better) listing of China and Asia regional courses. Regional courses (at least the China ones) at SIPA are often pulled from other departments and not as integrated with the rest of the SIPA program. So you might be taking classes with history majors as opposed to colleagues with similar interests.
   
5. I feel SIPA has more offerings for those interested in development work than SAIS.
   
6. SAIS does not have a (real) campus, and is separate from the rest of JHU. SIPA is right on Columbia's beautiful campus, so a better social mixture with the other students.
   
7. At SIPA you can take courses from other Columbia schools for credit (some special approval might be needed), SAIS is way far way from the other JHU buildings, but has plenty of offerings on its own that this probably doesn't matter.
   
8. It's easier to get a job after school in DC than it is in NYC.
   
9. The salaries and positions of SIPA and SAIS graduates are very similar, with SIPA grads appearing to receive bigger salaries for the private sector based on their published statistics. This probably has to do with the cost of living in NYC, where many SIPA students look for jobs after school.
   
10. SIPA's a little crowded compared to SAIS.
    
11. Many of SIPA's courses are taught by practitioners as opposed to academics. However there are issues with profs going MIA and being inaccessible because they are away on business trips.
    
12. there's some big difference in the curriculum offered at each IR school, look at each closely and pick what's best for your goals.
    
13. When I visited both in Summer 2009, SIPA '09 graduates were having a tougher time getting good jobs that those at SAIS. This was largely because NYC was really hit in the recession. Since DC has more government organizations present, the recession wasn't nearly as bad. However, SAIS doesn't publish how many students are unemployed/looking for jobs (or at least I couldn't find it). But this seemed consistent with the views of everyone I talked to in DC. I only had close contact with SIPA students, while at SAIS I just talked to the admin office.
    
14. If the schools are comparable and one gives a ton of money, definitely take it. This field isn't super lucrative. Depending on what you do after school, you might not be making a huge salary, so less debt is definitely better.
    
15. In general when talking about the IR field, I feel that the name of the school doesn't really matter as much as other fields (law, business, medicine). Harvard Kennedy might be an exception to that.
    
16. Wolfowitz used to be the head of SAIS. Not sure if this means anything...
    

Just my two cents!

[carpecc]

One more thing, SIPA students tend to be older, accepting less people straight from undergrad. Since I'm older this is good for me.

SIPA has 50% international students. I think SAIS is something like 30%. I like SIPA because of this fact.

[carpecc]

SIPA also gives a lot less funding to first year students, but it's not too hard to get funding for the second year if you need it and you make good grades.

I imagine a lot of great applicants turn down SIPA because they get good funding offers from other schools, I wonder how this affects the quality of the student body at SIPA.

[kbs48]

Thanks 'carpecc' for your useful insights.

I'm in the same boat. SAIS gave me $10K first year, SIPA nothing and UCSD IR/PS a full ride, and I'm weighing all of them up carefully. I have a China regional focus and am interested in going into the private sector post-masters, so I like SIPA for that, as NYC's job market is more wide-reaching than DCs. Having said that, SAIS also sends a lot of people into the private sector too, albeit, more into the DC government-type of consulting.

One thing about IR/PS that is jarring, is how bad California's economic outlook seems to be. I've spoken with some IR/PS folks, and they do seem to have a decent network in DC (World Bank, QED group), it obviously can't match up with that offered by SAIS. But unless you go private sector, and even then, not having to worry about school debt is a massive benefit. I'm not sure how much more money a SAIS/SIPA MA is worth over an IR/PS one, but $60K sounds a lot to pay for prestige. I think all of them offer fairly solid quant backgrounds, which is what I'm after, with SAIS being strongest, as all students must specialize in international econ. By forcing you to focus in econ, SAIS makes you choose between technical specializations (for me, i-development), and regional ones. SIPA forces you to take a policy focus, with regional among a variety of second specializations. In that way, they are somewhat different in orientation.

In terms of China, only IR/PS and SAIS have China specializations. SIPA's is more general, though its China offerings look robust.

In terms of management, only IR/PS offers a specific focus.

[apsuwa]

I think SAIS is way too conservative than SIPA is, if that is a matter of concern to you.

[SaraDC]

I think SAIS is way too conservative than SIPA is, if that is a matter of concern to you.

I think that's a topic worth discussing.

It probably depends on how you define conservative/liberal. As has been discussed, the school definitely emphasizes economics (of the free market/neoliberal variety) - and while there is some room for debate (e.g.: failures of the washington consensus, pros/cons of a China-style state centered approach), you won't find many courses on marxism.

My impression is that SAIS's reputation for leaning somewhat to the right comes from the fact that Wolfowitz was the dean in the 90's and under his watch a number of more conservative/neocon academics were recruited including Fukuyama (who has moderated a bit), Fouad Ajami, and Eliot Cohen. To be honest, I'm emphatically not a fan of Ajami or Cohen - but that wouldn't keep me from picking SAIS. I'm under the impression that after Wolfowitz left, the school's administration moved far more to the center.

In my experience, the student body isn't at all politically conservative - and unsurprisingly the majority probably voted for Obama. Although in an academic sense, some concentrations are more conservative than others by their very nature - strategic studies for example.

It would be nice to hear from current SAIS/SIPA students on their perceptions.