Economics to Poli Sci track

[Luckige]

I have a BA and MA in Economics, some serious empirical research (econometrics), and I plan to follow the quantitative approach in political science, reason why I will apply for it this fall. My questions are:

1. Is it a caveat that I have never had strong training in polisci? I mean, I had one or to courses, but can't say much about the field beyond educated common-sense. I do have good skills in stat, math and microeconomics. I have letter of recommendation from economists and political scientists.

2. GRE: I have not taken the test yet, and I wonder if I score above the 95% percentile (above 770) in the quantitative section will it compensate for a lower percentile in the verbal. I am not a native speaker, and it would cost me a lot of time to get a really good GRE verbal score.

3. Schools: which are the best schools in quantitative research? I am looking for 'that' school that isn't high overall ranked, but get to the top 10 in quantitative. I know UCSD is really good in what I am looking for, but they offer lousy funding. Also, does anyone know if the MSU poli.sci. program is strong in comparative politics? I have good contacts over there, and if I get a decent GRE score, that would be my safe bet. UIUC is also a good prospect.

thanks,

[Penelope Higgins]

A few scattered responses:

* the GRE score: particularly for quant-oriented departments, the quant score is more important in my experience, especially if you are not a native speaker.

* the lack of training: you need to be able to make a clear statement about your interests in political science in the personal statement - that is a very significant part of the admissions process. This means having done enough reading or whatever it takes to identify a question that political scientists are (or should be) interested in. It is certainly possible to do this with minimal coursework, but in that particular area of your interest, you need to be able to have more to say than "educated common sense."

*departments worth looking at (beyond the top 10, which besides UCSD would also include Stanford and Michigan) include UCLA, and UC Irvine. Another great place would be NYU. Maybe Penn State, Texas A&M, WUSTL and Florida State are worth a look. In comparative, my sense is that UIUC is much stronger than MSU, and definitely a great option.

[polisciphd]

If you want to do quant work, then Rochester is the place to be. However, I can vouch for Illinois, we have to take a ton of research methods courses, both quant and qual, and many students do even beyond what is required, including taking classes from the other CIC schools

http://www.cic.uiuc.edu/

Comparative is also very strong, particularly if you are at all concerned with conflict issues.

[flyingwalrus]

The following is US News' 2005 rankings for political science methods programs:

1. Harvard University (MA)

2. Stanford University (CA)

University of Michigan

[ampersand]

I know UCSD is really good in what I am looking for, but they offer lousy funding.

I'm going to UCSD--in American, not comparative, although I gather that their comparative department is nothing to sneeze at--and in its defense the stipend isn't horrible. Sure, you can't live large in La Jolla on $16K per year, but it's no Wisconsin (my friend was accepted there and was offered about $10K per year--you could make that much just by flipping burgers for a summer). You can boost your stipend through summer work or outside funding and fellowships, and I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to end up taking out some loans. My point is, don't discount a school just because their funding isn't stellar. It's more important to find a school that will match your research interests and that will give you a quality education that will get you a good job. After all, just by going into academia you're consigning yourself to a life of poverty in general.

I also second what Penelope Higgins said about demonstrating that you have research interests in political science and that you know how to formulate a good research question. You're already ahead of a lot of applicants because you have experience in quantitative work, which is very sexy in political science right now. Just make sure you flesh out the political science side of your application. That might mean writing a conference paper or two with a political scientist, beefing up your political science coursework, or even doing a master's first (which might help fill in other gaps in your application if you're an international student).

[ShamPain]

UNC just hired another Methods prof this fall, so their rankings might tick up into the top-15 or better for that. plus, they have a pretty strong IPE concentration and look for people with quant skills to admit (at least in my case; i did my undergrad in Econ). not sure what the Comparative people look at there, although i imagine that lot of places would want a healthy mix of qual/quant.

Rochester would be good for you, and i'd recommend looking at WashU in St. Louis.

[Luckige]

I'm going to UCSD--in American, not comparative, although I gather that their comparative department is nothing to sneeze at--and in its defense the stipend isn't horrible. Sure, you can't live large in La Jolla on $16K per year, but it's no Wisconsin (my friend was accepted there and was offered about $10K per year--you could make that much just by flipping burgers for a summer).

The problem is for me, international applicant (from http://polisci.ucsd.edu/grad/finaid.htm): INTERNATIONAL APPLICANTS: You should be aware that non-U.S. citizens are responsible for tuition and fee payments that total close to $15,000 per year for every year in residence. Unlike many other state universities, this tuition is not waived for students receiving teaching assistantships, which is the primary source of graduate student funding in the Department of Political Science. In almost all cases neither the University nor the Department of Political Science has the funds to cover these payments.

[Luckige]

Thanks all for swift and useful responses. More on the subject: what about political economics field? I know Princeton has a first rate program at Woodrow Wilson Institute, Rochester has one of its own as well, so MIT. However, reality brings me down to search another departments. Is there anywhere else I am missing as a top political economics dep? Is it in the same group as quant departments, meaning once you have strong quant you do good in pol economics?

[ampersand]

The problem is for me, international applicant (from http://polisci.ucsd.edu/grad/finaid.htm): INTERNATIONAL APPLICANTS: You should be aware that non-U.S. citizens are responsible for tuition and fee payments that total close to $15,000 per year for every year in residence. Unlike many other state universities, this tuition is not waived for students receiving teaching assistantships, which is the primary source of graduate student funding in the Department of Political Science. In almost all cases neither the University nor the Department of Political Science has the funds to cover these payments.

I wasn't aware that international students are subject to fees and tuition like that--yeesh. I still wouldn't dismiss UCSD out of hand, though. It's probably worth an email or a phone call to the graduate secretary to clarify what the financial burden would be. Not to brag or anything, but UCSD is prestigious enough that it still might be worth it for you to go there, especially if it's a perfect match for your research interests.

[flyingwalrus]

Thanks all for swift and useful responses. More on the subject: what about political economics field? I know Princeton has a first rate program at Woodrow Wilson Institute, Rochester has one of its own as well, so MIT. However, reality brings me down to search another departments. Is there anywhere else I am missing as a top political economics dep? Is it in the same group as quant departments, meaning once you have strong quant you do good in pol economics?

Stanford GSB: http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/phd/fields/pe/index.html

[flyingwalrus]

I'm going to UCSD--in American, not comparative, although I gather that their comparative department is nothing to sneeze at--and in its defense the stipend isn't horrible. Sure, you can't live large in La Jolla on $16K per year, but it's no Wisconsin (my friend was accepted there and was offered about $10K per year--you could make that much just by flipping burgers for a summer).

Wow, that's horrible. I had no idea their funding package is so weak. It's worse than Texas'.

[rising_star]

Sure, you can't live large in La Jolla on $16K per year, but it's no Wisconsin (my friend was accepted there and was offered about $10K per year--you could make that much just by flipping burgers for a summer). You can boost your stipend through summer work or outside funding and fellowships, and I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to end up taking out some loans.

Wisconsin pays more than that in many departments. Also, where in the world are you that you can make $10K flipping burgers for a summer??/

[ampersand]

Wisconsin pays more than that in many departments. Also, where in the world are you that you can make $10K flipping burgers for a summer??/

OK, the flipping burgers thing was exaggerated, but I stand by my assertion that Wisconsin pays their political science students peanuts (even by the low, low standards of grad student stipends). The political science department offered my friend $10K, whereas it seems to me that the standard funding package for political science is $15K-$18K. I don't know what other departments at Wisconsin offer.

[Minnesotan]

Wisconsin pays slave wages for English grad students, too. Not only that, but they don't even fund the majority of their students for the first year. I imagine, with the mass migration of good professors and the horrible living conditions for grad students, that Wisconsin is a school on its way down the educational ladder.

[UndraftedFreeAgent]

I haven't been on the forum much in recent months, but I thought I would throw in my two cents.

Moving from Econ to Political Science is definitely possible... that's exactly what I'm doing (I have a BS in Economics/Math and an MA in Economics and Econometrics). It seems as though many Political Science programs are undergoing the same transformation that Economics programs were twenty years ago. That is, looking for students who aren't afraid of calculus. If you can demonstrate a strong math background and interests in methods, game theory, or policy analysis, then you can make yourself a very attractive candidate, even without significant undergrad Political Science coursework. However, there will be some schools that will reject you immediately because of your earlier focus. Therefore you will need to send out more applications than most others on this forum did. Think of it as an expected value problem, where depending on your grades and scores, you might need to send out 5 well aimed applications to expect 1 admission on average. Thus you should consider finding as many as 15 schools for which you could apply. Be prepared to explain why you want to make the jump from Economics to Political Science. In your personal statement, identify work you have done in the past that could be applied to either field.

In terms of Political Economy, make sure you know what it is before declaring it as your research focus. Not only is there not as much math involved as you would imagine, but it's a field in which it is quite difficult to find a job. Political economists study several different models of economic thought, but the vast majority of schools only want to teach neoclassical or new Keynesian to undergrads, so concentrating on anything else could adversely impact your ability to get a tenure track position. If you just have broad interests in Economics and Politics, you should try to identify a few specific topics that could be directed into one of the other fields (i.e. American, Comparative, International Relations, etc.).

On the GRE, if you are focusing on quantitative methods, then you will want to score as high on the math section as possible, but you also must not ignore the verbal section. Since any program in Political Science is likely to be far more reading and writing intensive than a program in Economics, you need to prove that you will not fall behind. A few schools set higher requirements, but many require at least 500+ on each section as a school (not department) minimum just to consider your application. So you still have to spend those tedious hours studying for the verbal section.

[acemoglu]

Let me reiterate a few points made here

1. For many programs, econ students will be welcomed. These include Harvard, Stanford, NYU, Rochester, WashU, Caltech, Stanford GSB. Any of these have good placements in formal modelling and quant methods.

2. At these schools you can specialize in methods or formal, so your lack of polisci is little to no problem.

[Luckige]

Let me reiterate a few points made here

1. For many programs, econ students will be welcomed. These include Harvard, Stanford, NYU, Rochester, WashU, Caltech, Stanford GSB. Any of these have good placements in formal modelling and quant methods.

2. At these schools you can specialize in methods or formal, so your lack of polisci is little to no problem.

Thank you, Prof. Acemoglu. Your work changed my life.