MA Thesis and getting into Ph.D

[ed_psy]

So I heard a lot about doing an MA thesis is a must in order to get into a Ph.D program in the future. Is it really true? Because my school offers either a MA Thesis or doing a Literature Review paper. What if I choose to do a literature review paper instead of a thesis, would that mean I have a lower chance of getting into a PhD program later on?

Anyone ever did a Comp test or Lit Review and still got into ph.d program?

Thanks

[wtncffts]

I'm not in your field but I'd think the only advantage in doing an MA thesis is that you will (hopefully) have a polished, substantial piece of work which you can use as a writing sample and, perhaps, something to hold up as a starting point for your PhD research which shows a sustained interest in a particular area. If all you've done is various papers for different courses on different subjects, it may be harder to show your passion for and knowledge of a particular research agenda which will drive your PhD work. I don't think it necessarily lowers your chances if you don't do one; if you have a writing sample from elsewhere and can convince an adcomm, through other parts of your application, that you have the focus and interest, I'm sure you'd do fine.

[ed_psy]

I'm not in your field but I'd think the only advantage in doing an MA thesis is that you will (hopefully) have a polished, substantial piece of work which you can use as a writing sample and, perhaps, something to hold up as a starting point for your PhD research which shows a sustained interest in a particular area. If all you've done is various papers for different courses on different subjects, it may be harder to show your passion for and knowledge of a particular research agenda which will drive your PhD work. I don't think it necessarily lowers your chances if you don't do one; if you have a writing sample from elsewhere and can convince an adcomm, through other parts of your application, that you have the focus and interest, I'm sure you'd do fine.

Thanks for your reply. The thing is, my program does not have anyone doing a thesis and the faculty members are also discouraging me to write one.

But I do have 3 years on going research experience with another institution, maybe I should have some papers published from this place to boost it?

I don't know. I thought all schools have a thesis option, mine says they have one too but given that I asked around and the classmates I spoke too also said they are not going for the thesis. The worst thing is the department also discourage me to write a thesis, then something's going on. I spoke to a few faculty members and they said the best thing to do is the literature review, "Very few students actually complete the thesis.....I had came across students who quit midway."

[runonsentence]

This is my own opinion, but I think that polished theses are sometimes a bit too ambitious for a master's program, which is why my program moved away from doing them for so long. It might be different in your field, but I don't think it hurt my applications not to have a thesis, and probably because a lot of graduate programs realize this. (I instead focused on presenting at conferences and getting my first publication accepted, for example.) I didn't even have a lit review or comp exam, in fact, and I still had three acceptances, two of which were very competitive.

However, I've also heard on some of the list servs in my field that some PhD programs do like to see you coming in already familiar with the process of writing a thesis. I guess it depends—but if your program suggests you do the lit review, I'd personally do that. The goal is to take on something that you can succeed well in, not throw yourself at the most ambitious project you can. A strong lit review, I think, would look better on an application than a mediocre thesis, and it sounds like your program's experience has mostly been mediocrity for the theses students have elected to do.

Last, re: the advantage of having a thesis for apps: if you do a thesis in the same year as your PhD applications, it actually won't be ready in time for your fall/winter deadlines, anyway.

[Katzenmusik]

In my program the thesis is an option that almost no one ever takes. Apparently the professors themselves doubt the utility of the thesis -- it hovers somewhere between a seminar paper and a dissertation, between an article and a book. The thesis requires a lot of effort of everyone involved, and though completing one does demonstrate the ability to write at length in a timely manner, most people here just don't think it's worth it.

Personally I'm going to try and make my seminar papers as shiny and perfect as possible so they'll be ready for publication or for PhD applications. The PhD apps only take about 20-30 pages of writing anyway, so -- there's another place where the thesis doesn't quite fit.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Katzenmusik

[juilletmercredi]

Another advantage to doing a master's thesis is that you have experience writing a paper that is an example of the kind of advanced scholarship you will be expected to do in your field, especially for your dissertation. Sometimes the experience is almost as important as the product. I did a senior honors thesis in undergrad (and I came to a PhD program straight from the BA) and a lot of the skills I learned writing that thesis (writing a proposal, pacing myself, IRB approval, recruiting subjects on my own, solitary data analysis) have been really useful in my program so far and will probably be really useful when I'm writing the dissertation.

I'm going to agree with runonsentence somewhat...two years is a short period of time to complete what's usually 45-60 credits and also do a polished thesis. My school has master's students complete their thesis in one semester, which IMO is nowhere near enough time to carry out a well-thought out, well-written thesis - and it causes a lot of anxiety in the students.

[far_to_go]

I did both an honors thesis in undergrad and a thesis in my MA program before starting my PhD program. (At my MA school, everyone else did comps). At both schools, I had relatively little professorial support/oversight from beginning to end of the process; in fact, I didn't "defend" either thesis because the faculty members couldn't be bothered to schedule a meeting for that purpose!

That said, I did learn a lot from the process of writing and researching both theses, and I do think it helped me get into my current PhD program. I'm in Anthropology, and the majority of the doctoral program revolves around framing an ethnographic question and then answering it through one's fieldwork and write-up. Being able to demonstrate to the faculty that I've gone through that process before (albeit on a smaller scale) was a definite 'plus' in my admissions decision, I'm sure. As for the writing sample: I submitted the introduction and one of the main chapters of my MA thesis. Several profs asked about it in interviews. It was a good conversation starter, and I'm not sure that submitting a more 'lit-review'-ish paper would have served the same purpose. With a little reframing, I've also been able to present chapters and chunks of both theses as conference papers, and have one under consideration for publication as an article.

Overall, I do think that thesis work is helpful for getting into a PhD program and for developing oneself as a scholar overall. But it is not necessary for getting into a PhD program; several of my fellow students have not done thesis work, but still got in. It's also worthwhile to consider how much the research/writing process will add stress to your life when determining whether it's worth it for you. Writing a thesis is a *lot* of work, and if you can still get into a program without it (which you probably can, if the rest of your portfolio is solid), then it may be of relatively marginal value to you.

Good luck!

[robot_hamster]

There is both a thesis and a non-thesis option in my program. Almost everyone does the thesis option. My adviser said it was a must if I wanted to apply to PhD programs in the future. I have looked around at some PhD programs I might be interested in and some of them list having done a masters thesis as a requirement for admission. I really think it just depends on the field. I have no idea how that works for psychology, but I would take cues from your adviser and fellow grad students. What do they recommend/what is everyone else doing?

Edited May 12, 2011 by robot_hamster