zetetic Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 As for bias -- well, I don't know if the awards are unfairly biased towards top programs (top programs do attract top students and top professors), but it is true that even if you just look by baccalaureate institution some schools have many more awards than others. For example, there were 44 offers made to those who completed their BA/BS at Berkeley, 32 to Harvard, 26 to Stanford, 21 to Brown, 18 to Yale. Many equivalently-sized universities don't receive the same amount of awards. I mean, it's possible that the best Ph.D scholars just go to better undergraduate schools, but it does pose the question of whether your application, all things being equal, would be looked at the same if you had gone to Stanford or Harvard instead of Amherst or Williams (top two liberal arts colleges in the country; Amherst got one award and Williams got 3.) Just look at those institutions' gross awards on the graduate level, too-- the facts are clear, the students going to those institutions either for undergrad or grad win more awards. However, being one of the 44 that got the award after getting a BS at Berkeley (now at Cornell for PhD), I feel like at least Berkeley specifically had programs to try to foster getting the NSF fellowship, including connecting those that previously won an award with applicants, having boards of reviewers try and give the applicant a realistic view of how the application would be judged, etc. Cornell, on the other hand, has nothing of the sort (at least that was widely advertised). They have panels that meet and give advice periodically, but it wasn't as broad in my opinion. Also, I feel that Berkeley from the beginning attempts to install a "broader impacts" emphasis from day 1. I don't mean to say other schools don't, I really have no idea about that-- but I know Berkeley really gave that perspective to me in a way that I heavily relied on while writing my personal statement for the NSF GRF. http://grad.berkeley.edu/publications/egrad/0209.shtml Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterculus Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 There are also 20 times as many students at Berkeley as at a small liberal arts college. It looks to me like Williams actually has a higher fellowships/student ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtlve Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Importance of GRE scores: To those of you that got the award or are in limbo, did any of you guys not submit GRE scores? My scores are expired, so I could not send them. I am wondering if lack of GRE scores can put you at a disadvantage in the app process even though they say that they are optional. Anyone have success without scores? I am trying to decide if I should give it another try next year without test scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFuckinA Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I didn't send mine. If my transcripts, personal statements, solid references (6 of them), and research outline weren't enough to please them, I say, "Fuck them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeye Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Importance of GRE scores: To those of you that got the award or are in limbo, did any of you guys not submit GRE scores? My scores are expired, so I could not send them. I am wondering if lack of GRE scores can put you at a disadvantage in the app process even though they say that they are optional. Anyone have success without scores? I am trying to decide if I should give it another try next year without test scores. I got an award and did not send them my GRE scores. A professor here was reviewer for NSF GRFP a couple years ago and he said that most people leave them out...if you're not 85 or above percentile, they would probably hurt you rather than help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 So if people do call on Monday, they should probably ask what exactly is the hold up. It seems like the budget has already been approved. Are they still deciding how to spend a few 300-400 million dollars? Or if there is still debate to increase funding for the current fiscal year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGradStudent Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hello. If there is someone here who won the award this year but didn't win it last year (preferably no HM either) and is willing to give me some advice, that would be much appreciated. I got a flat rejection so I'm looking for some good advice on how to improve my application from rejection to winner! Please private message me. I'm interested in seeing what you did with your life (both in terms of research and otherwise) to make yourself a better candidate. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pom Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 If folks have some tips, perhaps we should share widely? I'm still in limbo, but I'm operating under the assumption that an award is not forthcoming. I'd love to hear from folks who did get the award, on what worked. That said, this might be a conversation we should have after our rating sheets come back (both for positive and negative responses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeye Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 If folks have some tips, perhaps we should share widely? I'm still in limbo, but I'm operating under the assumption that an award is not forthcoming. I'd love to hear from folks who did get the award, on what worked. That said, this might be a conversation we should have after our rating sheets come back (both for positive and negative responses). Sure, I'm game. I've would rather send a PM than post about it for all to see...my story is long and winding, and I had to think carefully about how to address some issues in my essays. I'm in life sciences, if that means anything to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowblossom2 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Any winners from social sciences (particularly sociology) that would be willing to send me tips? I am on the "still being reviewed" list, but would love some guidance for next year, if I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 so questions i feel might be good to ask would be, what is causing the hold up (either how to distribute the current NSF budget or if they are trying to get additional NSF funding) and are all current applicants being reevaluated? If all current applicants are being reevaluated, this could mean an extended return period for answers. If the budget has already been decided, then all the senator and congress contact writing i did will not help us (but will benefit next year's class!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krkq35 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I got an award and did not send them my GRE scores. A professor here was reviewer for NSF GRFP a couple years ago and he said that most people leave them out...if you're not 85 or above percentile, they would probably hurt you rather than help you. I too am in limbo, and I did (unfortunately) submit my general and subject scores. I submitted my NSFGRF application prior to receiving my GRE scores, and I did not score anywhere near what I thought I would (read well below the 85th percentile). I think redeye is right that most people do not submit since it seems that the cutoff for a score that the judges perceive as "good" is usually very high. The same judgement seems to be true in grad school apps, and I'm guessing it also applies here. So, I doubt your application will suffer from not having those scores. I'm still holding out hope that my reviews overlooked that part of my app :wink: Although, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for next year (if you don't get it this year). Even if you don't get the score you want, you can just not submit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pom Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 some helpful reading: http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2009/nsf09038/nsf09038.jsp http://informer.ogrd.wsu.edu/Stimulus/d ... spx?ID=157 http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/issuances/in131.jsp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 thanks for the links..but there's nothing in there about GRF stuff except for the second link mentioning focus on grad students. But thats like an off the cuff remark.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pom Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 i think the major lesson to draw from that is that they are focusing most of the new money on funding existing applications (including grfp) that are already in their system, including grants they otherwise would not have funded, as opposed to new grants. no, this is not all going to grfp, but it seems a sizable chunk may very well be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdilks Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Did anybody that called get any sort of indication about how long it'll be until things are finalized? Days, weeks, months? Before May 1st? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I was told end of next week in my first phonecall. I would be willing to wait till May or even June if it meant significant increases in the number of awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdilks Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I was told end of next week in my first phonecall. I would be willing to wait till May or even June if it meant significant increases in the number of awards. Just to clarify, end of next week being the 17th, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 that would be my guess. no date was specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetetic Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hello. If there is someone here who won the award this year but didn't win it last year (preferably no HM either) and is willing to give me some advice, that would be much appreciated. I got a flat rejection so I'm looking for some good advice on how to improve my application from rejection to winner! Please private message me. I'm interested in seeing what you did with your life (both in terms of research and otherwise) to make yourself a better candidate. Thanks! I did not get any award last year, but I was awarded one this year. The most general piece of advice I can give you is to look at the reviews that are coming your way and read into them as much as possible. The reviews are very general, but identify the areas in which your essays are weak-- and to be sure, the essays are the most important part of this application (and the personal statement is smack dab at the top). My grades went up a bit in my last year of undergrad, so that may have helped-- but it wasn't a significant rise. 2/3 of my letters were from graduate professors, which knew me for a much shorter time than undergrad professors; my research adviser back in Undergrad still wrote me what I imagine is a letter worth a hundred times its weight in gold (I definitely haven't deserved much of what I've gotten on my grades alone). Keep that connection up, if you have one. I did have a conference paper published this time around as well, which I hear has helped people in the past. The NSF has a list of topics that they really care about; I'll look for that list and post it here if I can find it. It was very clear after I drafted my personal statement again (I COMPLETELY rewrote it based on comments, which were basically just "doesn't show enough attention to diversity" and "broader impacts could be stronger" even though I got a "very good" in broader impacts) whether I met what the NSF was looking for or not. Of course, write what you mean and accurately depict what you have done, but spend time highlighting the things that NSF also values: education, outreach, uniqueness of character. Re-write your essay until you think you've honestly and fully gleaned what you can from your life experiences to display this. And, after all is said and done, there's some element of "luck" in this-- so cross your fingers, say a little prayer, caress a rabbit's foot or whatever it is that you believe in as you send it off. I'd be happy to communicate with you more and give general opinions if you'd like them, but it would help to wait until you get your review sheets. I'm sorry about this year, but you always have another shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_ruth Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Any winners from social sciences (particularly sociology) that would be willing to send me tips? I am on the "still being reviewed" list, but would love some guidance for next year, if I don't get it. I'll repeat my request for the same Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinispud Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Anyone else get both NDSEG and NSF, but expect to graduate in 3 years? Would you take one over the other or is there a way to maximize both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsfhopeful Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 To be honest, I'd try to put off graduation at least one more year. Use that last year to publish or work on a grant application. This will be a tremendous help when you try to find a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinispud Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 To be honest, I'd try to put off graduation at least one more year. Use that last year to publish or work on a grant application. This will be a tremendous help when you try to find a job. I do not like the idea of postponing graduation, but the extra year to write grants would be a great way to prepare for entering an academic position. Thanks for the suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeves Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I too am in limbo, and I did (unfortunately) submit my general and subject scores. I submitted my NSFGRF application prior to receiving my GRE scores, and I did not score anywhere near what I thought I would (read well below the 85th percentile). I think redeye is right that most people do not submit since it seems that the cutoff for a score that the judges perceive as "good" is usually very high. The same judgement seems to be true in grad school apps, and I'm guessing it also applies here. So, I doubt your application will suffer from not having those scores. I'm still holding out hope that my reviews overlooked that part of my app :wink: Although, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for next year (if you don't get it this year). Even if you don't get the score you want, you can just not submit them. I got 4.5 AWA and 610 Verbal, but still got an award after submitting my scores (800Q though). I think you read too much into it. Hammer home the broader impacts in a creative proposal and you will have a great chance at getting an award. I also second the advice about learning from your reviews. I definitely did this (I was HM last year...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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