NSF GRFP competitiveness

[kcola]

I have some Q's regarding the NSF GRFP fellowships:

1. I am not even in grad school yet (did not apply yet), should I be thinking this far ahead for planning projects if I'm not even admitted? I know it's for admitted students, but if i get in, should I be hacking away at a proposal with my current PI this early? I'm confused about the timeline here...

2. How competitive are they per field? I would assume some fields are more competitive than others. Say, biological sciences?

3. What other grants/fellowships/scholarships have people pursued for master's programs?

Thank you!

[eco_env]

1. the research proposal is not something you actually have to do, so yes.

2. about 10% acceptance rate, I think

[kcola]

can you elaborate on this

"1. the research proposal is not something you actually have to do, so yes."

[mechengr2000]

can you elaborate on this

"1. the research proposal is not something you actually have to do, so yes."

They do not force you to do the research you propose in your application if you win.

YES - start working on it now! It is a darn hard fellowship to win!

[Eigen]

I'll add that the 10% acceptance rate doesn't really explain the true competitiveness of the award... There's a lot of self-selection in who applies.

You should definitely start thinking up research projects now... But you'll need to tailor it to some school you've been accepted to, so you can discuss the infrastucture that will allow you to complete said project. Once you get the fellowship, though, you don't have to complete it.

[kcola]

I'll add that the 10% acceptance rate doesn't really explain the true competitiveness of the award... There's a lot of self-selection in who applies."

Hm you mean that it attracts the best of the best?

[IRdreams]

Probably it attracts some of the best of the best, but it is a significant effort and tends to weed out procrastinators. So good students plus those who start early on things are most likely to enter the competition from what I've gathered. It is not really surprising tho since if you thought you had a particularly low probability of winning (ie knew you were not a top quality candidate for a fact and knew that you couldn't obscure that fact) why would you spend all the time and effort on an application?

[kcola]

well i dont know if i have a poor probability of winning.. what are average stats for successful candidates?

[eco_env]

well i dont know if i have a poor probability of winning.. what are average stats for successful candidates?

they don't use GRE scores anymore, so it's probably not really a matter of having specific stats across all programs- but I do wonder about average GPA, number of pulications, how many traveled abroad/tutored minority students, etc for each field of study. I doubt that kind of data is available.

[IRdreams]

they don't use GRE scores anymore, so it's probably not really a matter of having specific stats across all programs- but I do wonder about average GPA, number of pulications, how many traveled abroad/tutored minority students, etc for each field of study. I doubt that kind of data is available.

All of these things vary substantially be field and thus specific comment is difficult. The best advice for gauging chances is to talk to faculty in your area. They've seen a lot of students go through their programs and will know what to do maximize your chances plus what the usual "profile" of a successful applicant looks like from their field.

[mechengr2000]

Articulation is the most important thing. The clarity and voice you use in your application will matter the more than your accomplishments. This is an unfortunate fact that is true because of how fast they read the applications.

[juilletmercredi]

Honestly the articulation is more important than anything else - I had a low undergrad GPA (3.4) but I was a second-year when I got the award, so I had my grad school GPA to bolster that. Nothing really besides that and the strength of my essays changed between the year I applied and didn't get it and the year I did. None of my negative comments were on my background; they were on my research proposal. (All of the positive comments were on my research proposal, too, lol).

And when did they stop using the GRE? They used it when I applied in 2009-2010.

To elaborate on your first question...if you're planning on applying for NSF for entry into grad school Fall 2012, then you most certainly should be thinking ahead to plan for projects. The most important part of your application is your research proposal, and students with tightly-written proposals are the ones who win the GRF. It's more difficult for college seniors to write such a proposal than grad students, but I think they take that into account. In any case, the earlier you start the more you can start looking through the literature, putting it together, so when you get back to college in the fall you can start shopping it around for comments. My first year I started writing the proposal in late August. My second year I started a little later - maybe the beginning to middle of September - but I had been working on my project idea for the better part of a year already so writing it was easier than starting from scratch like I did my first year.

[eco_env]

And when did they stop using the GRE? They used it when I applied in 2009-2010.

This year. (the 09-10 application season was the last time they accepted GRE scores).

[Eigen]

They were optional the 09-10 year, though.

[kcola]

is there a breakdown for how many awards they give our within a discipline and breakdown of applicants within discipline? Also, could anyone direct me to example essays, I;m a not sure how specific proposals have to be. I'd assume as specific as possible but still being able to link to the "broader impact"/picture.

[Eigen]

Mine was quite specific. I broke it down into 3 8-12 month stages, and discussed the experiments I was going to be doing at each stage, as well as possible alternatives if things didn't go as planned.

Here are some sample grants from past years, I can say that they all looked quite different from mine.

As to how many awards per discipline... I'm not sure. I'm also not sure you'd be able to find data on applicants by discipline, but you might be able to. You can certainly browse through the awards/honorable mentions given in the past by discipline, but no one I've talked to knows if each discipline gets a set number of awards up front, or not.

To give you a rough breakdown, in my sub-field there were 11 awards given out, in the broader field of chemistry there were 158.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Eigen

[kcola]

Thanks! Do people apply before they are admitted to school?

[Eigen]

You can, yes, with the caveat that you have to be enrolled in a program by the acceptance deadline.

If you're applying for the NSF and grad school at the same time, you can just pick one of the potential advisors you want to work with, and write a proposal that goes along well with their work. If you get the NSF but don't get into a program, you have to decline the fellowship. You aren't tied to the research proposal you write, so it doesn't really matter which potential advisor you pick to write based on- choose the one with the most obvious broader impacts, in my opinion.

[kcola]

So basically after talking with 2 postdocs and 1 advisor, i was told the nsf scholarships are a waste of time - its good practice to better understand/communicate the material you will potentially be working on but other than that- chances are slim amd you'd be better off working on gres, apps, etc.

[Eigen]

So basically after talking with 2 postdocs and 1 advisor, i was told the nsf scholarships are a waste of time - its good practice to better understand/communicate the material you will potentially be working on but other than that- chances are slim amd you'd be better off working on gres, apps, etc.

I'm sure this varies, some... But in most fields, the NSF Fellowship is one of the most competitive fellowships out there, and as such, being an "NSF Fellow" is *great* for your grad school and post-grad school career.

You have to separate the two (some) from a causal relationship, but if you look at NSF Postdocs, NSF Career Awards, and even NSF grants on the whole... You're more likely to receive the later ones if you also received the early ones. NSF likes to fund people that it has funded previously. Even an Honorable Mention will open some doors to you. Beyond the prestige, there are funding opportunities that are only available to NSF Fellows.

If you plan on applying next year, then it's not at all a waste of time to apply this year.

I do agree that you shouldn't put it higher than you apps... But I disagree the the GRE is all that important. More and more schools are placing less and less weight on GRE scores. Obviously, if you get the fellowship and don't get in it was a waste of time... But I would say it's beneficial to work on both the NSF app and Grad School Apps together- you can have your grad school applications submitted by October, and still have a nice chunk of time at the end to work on your NSF app before it's due.

[kcola]

Do they publish # of applicants per discipline? I had never heard of NSF fellows until I was researching grad school I assume just about every grad student is interested in this, which makes one want to scurry away with tail between legs.

[Eigen]

No idea about number of applicants per discipline. The top schools usually do some combination of strong encouragement and outright pressure to apply for them, or at least that was my experience when I interviewed.

My understanding is that they try to mirror the distribution of awards given to the distribution of applications received, so it varies from year to year. But you should be able to get something of a feeling from looking at the awards given in your discipline to the overall number of awards given, and then using that ratio to roughly determine the number of applicants in your discipline from the overall number of applicants.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Eigen

[GardeningGrad]

Yes, NSF is wicked competitive... but your future grad school may have funding (TA/RA, internal fellowships which aren't too shabby, small grants, etc.), so while it won't hurt to start so early, it'd be wise to put your eggs in more than one basket. Other scholarships - if you think learning some language will be good for your research, look into the Boren Fellowship and the FLAS fellowships. Also research any university-specific fellowships that may be under the radar and which may have random requirements.