hejduk Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 As the title implies, I didn't do a thesis in my MA as I thought it was my terminal degree, and was just seeking a practical rather than academic degree. Man, am I kicking myself in the a$$ over that decision. I'm really afraid that I"ll start my PhD program, but be completely lost on completing research papers. While I've done "term papers", I've never really done a lit review and then conducted research, and then written-up the paper. I've done some content analyses, and conducted surveys and other qual work. Should I freak out about this? I know that I'm constantly going to fill "not good enough" during the tenure of my PhD studies, but I really don't want to go in being so behind. I've been adjuncting now for three semesters, and honestly have taken to it quite nicely. I have colleagues who didn't do a thesis in their MA, got their PhD, and said they ended up being fine. Maybe I'm just worrying about nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far_to_go Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I wouldn't freak out. It's good to recognize that you may have to do some extra work and get some extra mentoring/advice from your profs and colleagues in order to do your first large-scale research project; since you recognize it, you can be proactive in filling those gaps. But, as I always try to remind myself, your PhD program would not have accepted you if they didn't think it was possible (and indeed likely) that you would succeed. You'll be fine :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Don't stress. I didn't write a MA thesis either and as far as I can tell it didn't set me back at all compared to friends who did write a thesis. Writing is harder for some people than others and if you're aware that you may need help completing a large project for the first time you'll seek advice as needed. Honestly, procrastination and lack of enthusiasm are much bigger obstacles to getting substantial writing done than lack of experience (research is exciting, writing about the minutiae is not, although often that's where you really work all of the details out and learn whether or not your idea really works, which may send you back to the drawing board). You'll gain experience as you go and your advisor will help too, so don't worry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejduk Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 I wouldn't freak out. It's good to recognize that you may have to do some extra work and get some extra mentoring/advice from your profs and colleagues in order to do your first large-scale research project; since you recognize it, you can be proactive in filling those gaps. But, as I always try to remind myself, your PhD program would not have accepted you if they didn't think it was possible (and indeed likely) that you would succeed. You'll be fine :-) Any advice in trying to catchup? I want my summer to be relaxing, as this will be last period of sanity for the next four years, but I also feel like I should be working to get ahead! And thanks for the positive thought; really put the entire situation in perspective. Writing is harder for some people than others and if you're aware that you may need help completing a large project for the first time you'll seek advice as needed. Honestly, procrastination and lack of enthusiasm are much bigger obstacles to getting substantial writing done than lack of experience (research is exciting, writing about the minutiae is not, although often that's where you really work all of the details out and learn whether or not your idea really works, which may send you back to the drawing board). You'll gain experience as you go and your advisor will help too, so don't worry about that. Hopefully I'll find an advisor and confidant that will be willing to help me. Writing definitely comes tough to me. I have books on how to do a lit review, journal article in 12-wks, etc, but haven't cracked them open yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far_to_go Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 "I have books on how to do a lit review, journal article in 12-wks, etc, but haven't cracked them open yet." Sounds like that might be a good thing for you to do after the summer, especially if you're not confident in your writing skills. Also, my standard advice to people starting their programs in the fall is to read a few recent books/articles by profs in your program. It's not necessarily a suggestion that pertains to writing, but it does help to get up to speed with what your profs think is important (and what they consider good writing too, I guess). It mandarin.orange 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeLight Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 tell your advisor all of this. inform him/her that you don't actually know how to do research yet and will need guidance. for some reason, people assume that this is something we all know how to do and always have. we don't. we need to learn. usually this is through trial and error (we know what a research paper is supposed to look like, we just don't know how to get there), with many MA theses ending in various stages of "error." that's okay. that's sort of what they're there for. so, without the thesis, rather than making those mistakes on your dissertation, inform your primary advisor that you need to know what to do and how to do it. it's sort of their job to help you do it anyway, may as well be open and upfront about what you think you need help with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfu4mph Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The biggest factor in finishing a dissertation or thesis is PERSERVERANCE. Yes, writing is definitely a skill, but as you noted there are books and peers to help, and that's what your committee is for. It definitely helps to have had the master's experience of writing a thesis, or writing experience, such as for peer-reviewed publications, and knowing what you would do differently with a PhD, but it's by no means insurmountable. One thing I would recommend, not from personal experience, but having seen it many times, is if your committee is more trouble than help, change the members (one or more of them) sooner rather than later. And I don't mean they shouldn't challenge you, but if the dynamics aren't there early on, they won't be a few years down the road. Remember, if it was a piece of cake, everyone would have a PhD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejduk Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) tell your advisor all of this. inform him/her that you don't actually know how to do research yet and will need guidance. I passed this thought along to a faculty mentor of mine from another college, and she bluntly said to not do this. She said I'd have a target on my back, and would just give people no desire to work with me. God, I want to be so open and ask for help, but so scared that I will be targeted and just seen to be the idiot i sometimes feel like! Edited June 8, 2011 by hejduk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I passed this thought along to a faculty mentor of mine from another college, and she bluntly said to not do this. She said I'd have a target on my back, and would just give people no desire to work with me. God, I want to be so open and ask for help, but so scared that I will be targeted and just seen to be the idiot i sometimes feel like! I agree that there is no need to ask for help before you even need it. The first papers you'll write in grad school won't be as large or as comprehensive as a MA thesis. They'll likely be small class projects whose size and depth requirements will progress over time. You also likely won't be writing a full journal paper right after starting grad school, doing enough research for that takes time. Even someone experienced who maybe wrote a journal paper or a thesis won't be expected to know all the secrets of writing, that's part of what grad school is for. Maybe you'll want to meet with you advisor to discuss outlines for papers and a suitable timelines for completing the work, maybe you'll also want them to read drafts at various stages of completion (although not everybody wants their advisor to read rough drafts and not all advisors want to see these drafts). Your advisor will help you with all of this and will not assume that you already know everything, nor that you should. They will assume that you'll give it your best effort and that you'll ask for help when you need it. Since you're already concerned about this issue, I'm sure you will. Don't set yourself up as the weak student when there is no need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardeningGrad Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Rather than worrying about writing skills or reading how-to books on lit reviews, read, read, and read some more. It would be appropriate to ask advisors, friends in your discipline, or forum members (or heck, just google search it) for suggestions of pertinent reading in your discipline. Then, look for sample lit reviews and think about how they're structured; admire a nice journal article and decide why you like it; read (cough - skim) a PhD dissertation (often universities or professors 'publish' the dissertations online or in their libraries) and decide how you'd make it better. I found that discovering 'intellectual crushes' through reading made me a much better writer as I modeled - consciously or unconsciously - my work according to my pleasant experience reading theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boricua Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) "I have books on how to do a lit review, journal article in 12-wks, etc, but haven't cracked them open yet." Sounds like that might be a good thing for you to do after the summer, especially if you're not confident in your writing skills. Also, my standard advice to people starting their programs in the fall is to read a few recent books/articles by profs in your program. It's not necessarily a suggestion that pertains to writing, but it does help to get up to speed with what your profs think is important (and what they consider good writing too, I guess). It I stumbled upon this thread because I'll be starting my M.A. in August, but plan on applying for the Ph.D. in fall, i.e. not finishing my M.A. My POI has an article published in a magazine and the magazine is accessible online. However, each time I try to open her article, I receive an error message. Several days ago I contacted one of the editors via e-mail in order to see if they could help me out, but never heard back from them. Now, my question is: do you think I could e-mail my POI and ask her whether or not she could provide me with a copy of it, or would that come off as rude? Thanks in advance for any advice on this! Edited June 9, 2011 by Boricua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardeningGrad Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I stumbled upon this thread because I'll be starting my M.A. in August, but plan on applying for the Ph.D. in fall, i.e. not finishing my M.A. My POI has an article published in a magazine and the magazine is accesible online. However, each time I try to open her article, I receive an error message. Several days ago I contacted one of the editors via e-mail in order to see if they could help me out, but never heard back from them. Now, my question is: do you think I could e-mail my POI and ask her whether or not she could provide me with a copy of it, or would that come off as rude? Thanks in advance for any advice on this! If I was a POI and someone who admired me wanted to read my article... I'd be more than happy to provide it to them. Just make sure you have tried opening the article a few different ways (browsers, on a different computer, etc), and then email her a brief note explaining that you are interested in reading this article but haven't been able to access it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boricua Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 If I was a POI and someone who admired me wanted to read my article... I'd be more than happy to provide it to them. Just make sure you have tried opening the article a few different ways (browsers, on a different computer, etc), and then email her a brief note explaining that you are interested in reading this article but haven't been able to access it. Thank you so much for your input. I followed your advice and tried to access it through both, different browsers and computers - NADA. So I went on and wrote her a brief message. I'll report back to this thread as soon as I hear from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejduk Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 The first papers you'll write in grad school won't be as large or as comprehensive as a MA thesis. ... They will assume that you'll give it your best effort and that you'll ask for help when you need it. Since you're already concerned about this issue, I'm sure you will. Don't set yourself up as the weak student when there is no need to. Makes me feel better to know that the term papers for classes won't be journal-quality/style papers. And this quote, "Don't set yourself up as the weak student when there is no need to."; I'm definitely trying to not be the weak student. Lord knows we all go in questioning our ability, and hopefully I'll learn to not stress myself out so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Makes me feel better to know that the term papers for classes won't be journal-quality/style papers. And this quote, "Don't set yourself up as the weak student when there is no need to."; I'm definitely trying to not be the weak student. Lord knows we all go in questioning our ability, and hopefully I'll learn to not stress myself out so much. This may vary by program. In my MA program, we were flat-out told that all of our term papers should be seen as drafts of journal articles and they were to be written as such. So, they were expected to be things that, with a little bit more work, could be sent out to journals (and we were encouraged to have a journal in mind when writing them). YMMV, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejduk Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 This may vary by program. In my MA program, we were flat-out told that all of our term papers should be seen as drafts of journal articles and they were to be written as such. So, they were expected to be things that, with a little bit more work, could be sent out to journals (and we were encouraged to have a journal in mind when writing them). YMMV, obviously. Ouch! Guess I need to do some asking around? Suggest maybe asking former students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Ouch! Guess I need to do some asking around? Suggest maybe asking former students? I wouldn't. At least, not now. It's too early and it's not information that is useful to you at this point. You can (and should) ask around after classes start; maybe you'll want to get a head start on some of the work if you think that it'll take you longer than usual to produce a finished product. But you can't really begin writing before classes have even started. There is a difference between having ideas about a topic that could be published (eventually) and writing a paper that is publishable at submission. There are different philosophies here but mine has always been to get the requirements out of the way and then continue working on the topics that interest me later on. Others I know spend more time on the required papers and submit better-looking papers than mine for their classes. But normally everyone needs to do more work before a class paper is publishable so I find that polishing a class paper is a waste of time. Better get the comments on what you have at the time, continue working and eventually submit a polished paper to a journal. But, as always, experiences vary. fumblewhat and rising_star 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNPCracklePop Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Don't worry about it. Many students walk into PhD programs without a MA/MS or a Honors Thesis from their undergrad studies. I also entered the program with a non-thesis MS, and things are going well. Writing research papers is like learning a new skill, and you'll pick it up. Don't forget to check if your MS credits will transfer. Hopefully, you'll get to save a lot of time out of the lecture hall, leaving you more time to write Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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