Advice on Selecting Social Psychology Program

[Aequitas2787]

So, I am currently in Law school. My background before law school is Economics and Political Science. I am interested in decision making research in academia. I would really like to find a school to teach at after a PhD doing law/economics and Psychology interdisciplinary work. I have no formal psychology training. I would like to go to a respectable school with funding. I am curious what programs would appreciate my background and academic pursuits. I really love the idea of working with the Center for Decision Research at Chicago for example. I have no idea what is required to be competitive at these programs or which social psychology programs would be good for the study of group decision making with a side focus on economics and policy. This is sort of a new interest for me. I wrote a paper heavily influenced by behavioral economics which started me thinking that maybe I should consider Psychology... Any guidance on programs or faculty members that I should research would be awesome.

I graduated undergrad in 2009 with a 3.95/4.00 GPA in Political Science and a Minor in Economics but all my electives where in Economics with a few math and statistics courses for good measure.

I am in a top 50 law program now. I am in the top 10% of my class and Editor-in-Chief of an Academic Journal which focuses on publishing work in Law, Economics & Policy. I am extremely interested in Public Choice Economics and similar studies but I feel like Psychology is a better route for understanding decision making and how that informs policy. For those who aren't familiar... Law Journals are about the only academic journals fully edited by students so my position is heavily involved in editing professional academic scholarship. I have also done very well in Moot Court Competitions which score based on research and defense of your position in front of a panel of judges. Its about half research and half being to think on your feet when challenged by judges.

I have not taken the GRE yet. I am spending my free time reading through some prep books. I scored fairly well on the LSAT (161/180 = top 15% nationally) but I feel like they test fairly different skills so I'm not sure how that will translate.

Does anyone have some thoughts on programs that would be good given my goals to enter academia and my research interests?

Also, what sort of GRE scores would I need given the rest of my background to be competitive at each of them? How much will top 10% in my law school class and top 1% in my undergraduate class help me as a candidate? How much will no Psychology classes in my record hurt me? Do courses in Public Choice and Microeconomics (which is focused on firm and individual decision making) help me?

I know this is a little vague. I use to think I wanted to do an Economics PhD program but I think Psychology would be better for me. I am already pretty comfortable with advanced economic theory - I don't particularly want to deal with the advanced math side in grad school. I would like to learn the Psychology behind decision making and spend my time on purer statistical analysis as opposed to econometrics...

[Behavioral]

So, I am currently in Law school. My background before law school is Economics and Political Science. I am interested in decision making research in academia. I would really like to find a school to teach at after a PhD doing law/economics and Psychology interdisciplinary work. I have no formal psychology training. I would like to go to a respectable school with funding. I am curious what programs would appreciate my background and academic pursuits. I really love the idea of working with the Center for Decision Research at Chicago for example. I have no idea what is required to be competitive at these programs or which social psychology programs would be good for the study of group decision making with a side focus on economics and policy. This is sort of a new interest for me. I wrote a paper heavily influenced by behavioral economics which started me thinking that maybe I should consider Psychology... Any guidance on programs or faculty members that I should research would be awesome.

I graduated undergrad in 2009 with a 3.95/4.00 GPA in Political Science and a Minor in Economics but all my electives where in Economics with a few math and statistics courses for good measure.

I am in a top 50 law program now. I am in the top 10% of my class and Editor-in-Chief of an Academic Journal which focuses on publishing work in Law, Economics & Policy. I am extremely interested in Public Choice Economics and similar studies but I feel like Psychology is a better route for understanding decision making and how that informs policy. For those who aren't familiar... Law Journals are about the only academic journals fully edited by students so my position is heavily involved in editing professional academic scholarship. I have also done very well in Moot Court Competitions which score based on research and defense of your position in front of a panel of judges. Its about half research and half being to think on your feet when challenged by judges.

I have not taken the GRE yet. I am spending my free time reading through some prep books. I scored fairly well on the LSAT (161/180 = top 15% nationally) but I feel like they test fairly different skills so I'm not sure how that will translate.

Does anyone have some thoughts on programs that would be good given my goals to enter academia and my research interests?

Also, what sort of GRE scores would I need given the rest of my background to be competitive at each of them? How much will top 10% in my law school class and top 1% in my undergraduate class help me as a candidate? How much will no Psychology classes in my record hurt me? Do courses in Public Choice and Microeconomics (which is focused on firm and individual decision making) help me?

I know this is a little vague. I use to think I wanted to do an Economics PhD program but I think Psychology would be better for me. I am already pretty comfortable with advanced economic theory - I don't particularly want to deal with the advanced math side in grad school. I would like to learn the Psychology behind decision making and spend my time on purer statistical analysis as opposed to econometrics...

Advanced economic theory IS math. If you only took undergraduate courses, you understand fairly basic economic concepts, but you won't understand the constructs (i.e., underlying mathematical derivation and structural equation model [and its respective proof]).

Anyway, you're basically doing the same type of research I'm doing (JDM/BDT).

One, you're going to either learn to love research or figure out a way to convince adcomms that you LOVE research and that teaching is not even on the radar. Expressing interest in teaching in grad school applications is quickly become the kiss of death at most programs housed in R1 schools.

For the more Psyc-oriented JDM programs (i.e., OSU Quant Psych, CMU SDS, etc.), you're going to want close to an 800Q and if you want to meet their median GRE, it's around 1350 composite.

For OSU, you're going to need to have some basic pre-reqs in Psyc:

Only students who intend to pursue the Ph.D. are admitted. To apply, you should have a minimum of 20 quarter hours-or 14 semester hours-of study in psychology at the undergraduate level. You need not have an undergraduate psychology degree.

Source: http://www.psy.ohio-state.edu/graduate/

If you're applying to OSU Quant Psyc, you're going to want a heavier emphasis on probability theory (i.e., stochastic processes, Bayesian analysis, Markov chains, etc.) since many of their students were either Econ majors, Math majors, or at least had math minors. When I went to interview, those who said they were a little behind in the statistics background were the ones struggling heavily with the doctoral statistics courses.

Your GPA is great, but it'll only help so much getting you through the initial stages of admission. From there (especially in psychology and JDM), research experience counts for much much more. If you're lacking in that department, I'd advise you to try to find some research opportunities (maybe even paid if you can convince faculty that you're worth a shot even without a psyc degree) before applying. Ph.D. admissions is not numbers driven like LS, so plan accordingly.

Besides that, apply to schools with well-known decision psychologists (Slovic at Oregon, Peters at OSU, Loewenstein at CMU, McKenzie at UCSD, Simonsohn at Yale, etc.) and apply to those doing research interesting you.

But I would actually highly recommend you apply to marketing programs (either behavioral or quantitative; depending what kind of research you want to do). The entire field seems to have a stronger inclination towards JDM than anything in Psychology, and it's great. If you want programs full of JDM faculty, look at Northwestern (Kellogg), Colorado (Leeds) -- they have John Lynch (Dan Ariely's advisor and mentor) there now, Duke (Fuqua) where Dan Ariely's at, Florida (Warrington), and others.

Here's a little write-up I posted yesterday on reddit about my experiences in undergraduate and how I got into the program I'm in today: http://www.reddit.com/r/GetMotivated/comments/iez1l/are_there_any_stories_of_how_you_changed_yourself/c23avdj

Hope that helps.

[neuropsych76]

So, I am currently in Law school. My background before law school is Economics and Political Science. I am interested in decision making research in academia. I would really like to find a school to teach at after a PhD doing law/economics and Psychology interdisciplinary work. I have no formal psychology training. I would like to go to a respectable school with funding. I am curious what programs would appreciate my background and academic pursuits. I really love the idea of working with the Center for Decision Research at Chicago for example. I have no idea what is required to be competitive at these programs or which social psychology programs would be good for the study of group decision making with a side focus on economics and policy. This is sort of a new interest for me. I wrote a paper heavily influenced by behavioral economics which started me thinking that maybe I should consider Psychology... Any guidance on programs or faculty members that I should research would be awesome.

I graduated undergrad in 2009 with a 3.95/4.00 GPA in Political Science and a Minor in Economics but all my electives where in Economics with a few math and statistics courses for good measure.

I am in a top 50 law program now. I am in the top 10% of my class and Editor-in-Chief of an Academic Journal which focuses on publishing work in Law, Economics & Policy. I am extremely interested in Public Choice Economics and similar studies but I feel like Psychology is a better route for understanding decision making and how that informs policy. For those who aren't familiar... Law Journals are about the only academic journals fully edited by students so my position is heavily involved in editing professional academic scholarship. I have also done very well in Moot Court Competitions which score based on research and defense of your position in front of a panel of judges. Its about half research and half being to think on your feet when challenged by judges.

I have not taken the GRE yet. I am spending my free time reading through some prep books. I scored fairly well on the LSAT (161/180 = top 15% nationally) but I feel like they test fairly different skills so I'm not sure how that will translate.

Does anyone have some thoughts on programs that would be good given my goals to enter academia and my research interests?

Also, what sort of GRE scores would I need given the rest of my background to be competitive at each of them? How much will top 10% in my law school class and top 1% in my undergraduate class help me as a candidate? How much will no Psychology classes in my record hurt me? Do courses in Public Choice and Microeconomics (which is focused on firm and individual decision making) help me?

I know this is a little vague. I use to think I wanted to do an Economics PhD program but I think Psychology would be better for me. I am already pretty comfortable with advanced economic theory - I don't particularly want to deal with the advanced math side in grad school. I would like to learn the Psychology behind decision making and spend my time on purer statistical analysis as opposed to econometrics...

Hi, I don't want to be a downer but I think despite your law accomplishments you still need to a lot of stuff before being competitive for top social psychology programs. Top social psych programs like Chicago are super competitive for anyone. You would really need to take some psychology courses to fulfill the pre-reqs and obtain some psychology research experience such as working in a lab for a couple years. Since you have a high GPA, a super high GRE score wouldn't be vital but I would aim 1300+. Also, I would recommend taking the psych GRE.

Being diverse helps, but grad programs want to see someone who is focused in their area and also has a lot of experience in that area. But as tricky as the grad school process is, it's hard to say exactly where you would rank.

Best of luck!!

[Aequitas2787]

Thanks for the input Behavioral.

I do actually love research. Research is my goal. Not sure about a marketing program. I am not really into the that side of behavioral activity. I am more interested in the law and policy side of behavior. That is what can we learn from behavior to adapt our policy and laws to be more effective. On the other hand organizational psychology is also very interesting. It strikes me as very related to Microeconomics. As for advanced econ being "all math" there are different schools of thought on that. There is and has really always been a split in the economics community between the mathematicians who couldn't cut it in other fields and the more social science economists. Many who study economics discount "macroeconomics and econometrics" as not within the true field of economics. Math has its place but in reality the heavily mathematical economics has made the field far less practical and has brought it a lot of disrepute due to continuous failings. But I digress. My favorite thing to do is research and write. That's why I've decided I want to do a PhD program and go into academia. I would love to find a professorship at a law school eventually but anyplace that lets me research and write would be fine. I am far more interested in theory than quant side. I understand that mathematical and statistical analysis is important in any empirical field but I am not looking for a heavy emphasis on math. That said I have enjoyed a little study of game theory and things like that so I'm not totally anti-math I just do not want it to be the focus of my education or career.

Thanks for the input Neuropsych76, I know top programs are very competitive, I am curious as where to start. I am about to have a law degree and lots of student debt. It would be a little crazy for me to walk away from a 100k job to do menial work as a lab assistant for a few years or to go back to undergrad. As for getting some Psych background academically, could I just pick up some courses at a local school's undergrad part time? Should I consider a part time masters program or what would you suggest? As for experience, would it be possible to find like a part time research assistant type job so that I could do that with a day job? Maybe co-author a law and psychology piece? Does it matter if the people I work with have names or can they be nobodies? I could probably find some undergrad profs to work with on stuff without giving up my day job... which is really a lot more practical.

I noticed a duel PhD in managerial and organizational behavior and psychology. Would a program like that be easier or harder for me to get into? I feel like the inter-discipline arena is where I want to be not a pure field. It seems like a lot of schools are starting to really reach-out with inter-discipline programs but its hard to tell what they expect from applicants. I know I cannot compete head to head with Psych people who have spent years on that. I don't really want to. I want to do inter-discipline research not straight psych. Are there any respectable programs that look for that?

[t_ruth]

Hello

I also have a JD, and I find it was good training for the PhD. You just have to spin it as such. As for making yourself more desirable--did you say if you had any research experience? I was able to work for two professors in law school doing research. I know these are usually summer jobs, but I kept one of mine during the school year also. I'd find someone at your law school whose work interests you and see if you could do something with them. And yes, presenting and/or publishing would also go a long way.

Good luck!

[Behavioral]

Just throwing it out there that many decision theorists (i.e., not doing research on business-only/market-only phenomena) tend to be housed in marketing programs.

If you look at journals like Judgment and Decision Making and Journal of Behavioral Decision Making, you'll see a large proportion of the authors are from business schools.

Heck, the ability to do theoretical JDM research is what made me even consider marketing in the first place.

It's not uncommon to see a marketing professor also be a psychology professor (and vice-versa):

Take one of my grad advisors for example:

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/Faculty/Directory/Brendl_Miguel.aspx#research - he got all of his degrees in psychology and still does mostly basic research on JDM, but he's in a marketing department

http://psy2.ucsd.edu/~mckenzie/ - one of my undergraduate mentors; he's the one who told me about marketing programs in the first place, and that they're the hotbed of JDM research (not psychology)

http://leeds.colorado.edu/lynch#biography - Dan Ariely's former advisor, APA fellow, former ACR (Assoc. for Consumer Research) president, and all-around revered JDM researcher (also trained in psychology, but made famous in marketing)

And heck, even the most famous person in marketing was a psychologist first - http://www.dibs.duke.edu/research/profiles/64-dan-ariely

[Behavioral]

Similarly, you can try contacting these people and see where they would recommend

[Aequitas2787]

Thanks Behavior. Looks like I have some research to do. I had no idea Psych and Marketing worked so well together and did none sales research together. In my experience the social sciences and business schools don't play nice together but I guess that isn't universal. I'll certainly look into it more now.

[lewin]

Thanks Behavior. Looks like I have some research to do. I had no idea Psych and Marketing worked so well together and did none sales research together. In my experience the social sciences and business schools don't play nice together but I guess that isn't universal. I'll certainly look into it more now.

As other have pointed out already, there are a few business schools (e.g., Kellogg, Booth, Fuqua) that have strong social psychology connections. Of course, there can be friction too: some social psych professors see going to a business school as "selling out", and some business schools see social psychologists as people with little real-world experience trying to encroach on their territory for the extra cash. Teaching MBA's is also notoriously challenging.

You could also consider an industrial-organizational psychology program.

[Behavioral]

As other have pointed out already, there are a few business schools (e.g., Kellogg, Booth, Fuqua) that have strong social psychology connections. Of course, there can be friction too: some social psych professors see going to a business school as "selling out", and some business schools see social psychologists as people with little real-world experience trying to encroach on their territory for the extra cash. Teaching MBA's is also notoriously challenging.

You could also consider an industrial-organizational psychology program.

^^^ What lewin00 said

In terms of cross-department relation, YMMV. At Kellogg, the two work in concert with each other it seems, as the behavioral marketing students take most of the same coursework as the psych students and are encouraged to collaborate with psych professors if they're interested.

[lewin]

In terms of cross-department relation, YMMV. At Kellogg, the two work in concert with each other it seems, as the behavioral marketing students take most of the same coursework as the psych students and are encouraged to collaborate with psych professors if they're interested.

Yeah, without putting out too many personal details on the board here, I'm in a social psych phd program but I collaborate with people at two different business schools. So it can work.

[Carolyn_D]

I've been really interested in human behavior, consumer/consulting psychology, as well as, marketing psychology and overall judgment and decision making; however, as a senior, I have never taken a single business or econ class since I found this passion so late in the game. With that said, I was wondering if anyone has any advice or words of wisdom on graduate school in psychology or these particular topics in general (i.e. consumer and marketing psychology) and avenues I might be interested in perusing?

For example, I've done hours and hours of research and read dozens of graduate school books and have come across very few programs, whether it be Master's or PhD's in psychology, that pertain specifically to my interests relating consumer science and marketing to human behavior psychology. I've only found tons of PhDs in marketing and business etc - however, psychology is still one of my underlying passions and I would love to be able to incorporate both areas into a Master's or PhD program within the overall field of psychology.

Is anyone familiar with any specific programs that might be tailored to these interests? Or does anyone have any career paths or ideas that might be able to incorporate these? I really appreciate any and all advice; I've never felt more lost! Please reply via a comment here or e-mail me at cd305507@ohio.edu. Thank you so much!