Lit Doctorate questions and concerns

[HaruNoKaze]

I'm going to be applying starting in November and December for doctorate programs in English Literature for the 2012 academic year. I have a number of questions and concerns, because I've come to find that I am in a particularly odd situation...

The MA program I am in right now is a small program at a start up university in Texas. We have about seven students actively in the program, only one of whom is working on his master's thesis right now. The program is taught by two professors, and only two. There has been one person from a couple of years ago who went on to a doctorate program, but that's it. And, to make it more complex, no one from our program besides myself is actively planning on pursuing their PhD. So, I'm the odd man out (or something like that). My top three schools I want to apply to are Berkeley, Princeton, and UT Austin. I think I might have a chance at getting into UT, but am beginning to doubt my chances with Princeton and Berkeley.

So here are the problems/concerns:

I only have two faculty members that I work with in my MA program. Most programs want three letters or recommendation, right? So where am I supposed to get my third letter from?

Do letters of recommendation really matter? I mean, anyone who is apply to doctorate programs has wonderful, positive letters of rec, so I don't really feel reassured when my two professors tell me they're going to write me great letters.

The GRE exam is changing starting Aug 1st, and I was planning on retaking it to get higher scores. The scoring system is part of what's changing, as well what competencies the test focuses on and you can use a calculator too. I have the scores that each school wants for the old test, but not target scores for the new test. If the new test is a different test, but the programs can't tell me what scores they'll want. How should I deal with this? Should I study like mad and take the old (current) test before Aug 1st so I know whether my scores are in the desired ranges?

My professors keep telling me doctorate programs don't focus on grades, they focus on the writing sample, statement of purpose, and letters of rec, but I find that really hard to believe. I don't believe I can get a bunch of B's in grad school and then get into Berkeley or Princeton because of my writing sample. Also, I've gone to one conference already (this past April) and am going to the SA MLA in Nov, is this really going to look good on my CV if I don't have the grades to back it up?

Thanks in advance,

Haru

[Two Espressos]

I'm going to be applying starting in November and December for doctorate programs in English Literature for the 2012 academic year. I have a number of questions and concerns, because I've come to find that I am in a particularly odd situation...

The MA program I am in right now is a small program at a start up university in Texas. We have about seven students actively in the program, only one of whom is working on his master's thesis right now. The program is taught by two professors, and only two. There has been one person from a couple of years ago who went on to a doctorate program, but that's it. And, to make it more complex, no one from our program besides myself is actively planning on pursuing their PhD. So, I'm the odd man out (or something like that). My top three schools I want to apply to are Berkeley, Princeton, and UT Austin. I think I might have a chance at getting into UT, but am beginning to doubt my chances with Princeton and Berkeley.

So here are the problems/concerns:

I only have two faculty members that I work with in my MA program. Most programs want three letters or recommendation, right? So where am I supposed to get my third letter from?

Do letters of recommendation really matter? I mean, anyone who is apply to doctorate programs has wonderful, positive letters of rec, so I don't really feel reassured when my two professors tell me they're going to write me great letters.

The GRE exam is changing starting Aug 1st, and I was planning on retaking it to get higher scores. The scoring system is part of what's changing, as well what competencies the test focuses on and you can use a calculator too. I have the scores that each school wants for the old test, but not target scores for the new test. If the new test is a different test, but the programs can't tell me what scores they'll want. How should I deal with this? Should I study like mad and take the old (current) test before Aug 1st so I know whether my scores are in the desired ranges?

My professors keep telling me doctorate programs don't focus on grades, they focus on the writing sample, statement of purpose, and letters of rec, but I find that really hard to believe. I don't believe I can get a bunch of B's in grad school and then get into Berkeley or Princeton because of my writing sample. Also, I've gone to one conference already (this past April) and am going to the SA MLA in Nov, is this really going to look good on my CV if I don't have the grades to back it up?

Thanks in advance,

Haru

I am also a prospective English PhD applicant, though I'm still an undergraduate. I have a few thoughts to offer...

1). Letters of recommendation absolutely matter (hence why every single English MA and PhD department, and likely graduate schools in other disciplines [though I have not checked], requires them). You are correct in that nearly all letters of recommendation offer glowering praise for the prospective applicant. Therefore, I would imagine that the best letters of recommendation offer specific evidence of a student's excellence (percentile in their major, etc) as well as frank, individualized accounts of a student's academic interests/goals and how these evince the student's readiness/dedication/etc. for a PhD in English. LORs should also discuss any explicit weaknesses/shortcomings, if they exist.

2). Grades absolutely matter, especially since many applicants to PhD programs in the humanities possess very strong GPAs/GRE scores and are, as a poster once mentioned, "deadly fucking serious" about academia (this seriousness is wholly necessary in the blood-thirsty academic job market). I would imagine that the students who are admitted to strong programs (I consider all three of your prospective schools to be so) have excellent LORs, writing samples, and personal statements that clearly demarcate why a particular program suits their academic interests, all in addition to strong GPA/GRE scores. That being said, a student with less-strong GPA/GRE scores (student A) could certainly be admitted over another, more qualified candidate (student A2) if student A's LOR, writing sample, and personal statement are better than student A2's. My point being, one needs to craft the absolute best writing sample and personal statement that one can. Really, your writing sample and personal statement are the most important parts of your application; they are the areas in which your application can most stand out from the crowd.

3). Conferences are a good thing and show your commitment to your field, but I don't think they'd add much to your application (this is coming from someone who is presenting at a conference this fall, and who plans to attend an additional conference or two while an undergraduate). Once again, your writing sample and statement of purpose are the most crucial aspects of your application.

Good luck!

Edited July 11, 2011 by Two Espressos

[HaruNoKaze]

Two Espressos,

Thanks for your response. I am now too concerned with the differences between candidates who are applying straight from undergrad to MA/PhD combined programs, and those who have an MA and are applying to the same doctorate programs. Perhaps I should offer one point of clarification for everyone else who's giving advice: my comment about going to conference was that I presented papers, not just attended. I realize I didn't make that point clear. I know that because of the nature of conferences (doing proposals, getting accepted/rejected, traveling) they look good on a CV. I'm just wondering how good.

[lyonessrampant]

Okay, so I got into UTA and have a friend in the program there. Here's what I've noticed from their process, they'll overlook a low subject score, especially if you have really strong SOPs and writing samples. LORs matter a lot, especially if the recommender is someone known and respected in the field. If your letter writers are not well known, really encourage them to focus on highlighting your specific abilities and qualities. You absolutely need three LORs and it is a good idea to have a 4th to send for those programs who will let you. The more glowing praise the better the impression. What about undergrad profs? Did you have close relationships with any of them? They might be your third LOR. Did you take any classes outside the dept. during your MA? Those profs might be an option. Definitely put conference presentations on your CV. You should also list relevant organizations (like the MLA) you belong to. This shows activism in your field and, most importantly, that you're following the current conversations in your subject areas. Grades also do matter, especially grad school grades. If you've got a lot of B's (a rarity in most English MA programs unless work is really not meeting expectations), you need to say why. Perhaps the grading in your program is more rigorous than a lot of other MA programs. UTA is open to people who already have MAs (I did and so did my friend). Princeton prefers direct-from-BA applicants. Berkeley has more MA-in-hand acceptances, but the majority appear to be from BA (applied there to and didn't get in). You can find this info out by reading the grad student profiles. More directly, email the English dept. grad secretaries and ask them about it. Some programs, like UW-Madison and CU-Boulder (among others), are moving away from people with an MA to preferring BA applicants because they want to mold their methodologies. It really just depends on the school. As for the GRE test change, well, I don't think anyone really knows the answer here. From what I understand, though, the actual scores aren't changing, just how the scores are calculated. I think they're moving from a computer-adaptive test to one with set question types graduated in difficulty. This means how they calculate your score will be different, but a 700 Verbal will still be in the 98% or whatever and so on. In that case, it really is still the score that matters most, so if you think you can get higher either retaking the current version before Aug 1 or waiting for the new version, that's your call. You can use your current scores and do research to find out if the schools you are applying to have cutoffs, care that much about scores, etc. Anyway, I'd definitely recommend you apply to more than the three schools you listed, not because I don't think you're competitive (no idea about that) but because it is so COMPETITIVE getting in anywhere (and something of a crapshoot too) that you want to have a range of programs and, consequently, possible options. Good luck!

[Historiogaffe]

Two Espressos,

Thanks for your response. I am now too concerned with the differences between candidates who are applying straight from undergrad to MA/PhD combined programs, and those who have an MA and are applying to the same doctorate programs. Perhaps I should offer one point of clarification for everyone else who's giving advice: my comment about going to conference was that I presented papers, not just attended. I realize I didn't make that point clear. I know that because of the nature of conferences (doing proposals, getting accepted/rejected, traveling) they look good on a CV. I'm just wondering how good.

My two cents, based on my inference from two years' worth of vigorous Grad Cafe and applyingtograd stalking:

The general wisdom for English programs—as distinct from others such as the hard sciences or law—is that your numbers should be your area of least concern; the CV is an honourary member of the "numbers" category. If you've presented at five conferences but your statement of purpose doesn't blow anyone away, you won't get into the program; if you've never been to a conference but your statement of purpose blows everyone away, you stand a much stronger chance of getting in. (Though, with today's academic market, that might as well say "you stand a chance of getting in.")

They do look good on a CV, but more for rhetorical effect than as items that will give you a qualitative leg up. The chorus of Things That Matter will always be "Statement of purpose, writing sample, LORs."

As for the difference between MA-holding candidates and straight-from-BA candidates, this conversation happens at least once a year and the consensus is always "it depends." It depends on the school: some (e.g. Yale) prefer to hone you from day one, with a kind of monogamous approach to their pedigree. Others (though fewer and fewer) require an MA in hand—I've found these are usually rhetoric rather than literature programs, e.g. Syracuse—and a bunch more (e.g. Berkeley, UT-Austin) can go either way. I don't know about Princeton.

The difference is that, as an MA-holding applicant, you'll be expected to have a much more refined idea of what you want to study; and you will to some degree be expected to have "real-world" experience in terms of conference presentations. (Not publications.) The bar is higher for MA-holders, but in a way only because an MA-holder should, logically, be better prepared—they've done 1-2 years of grad school, they've got an extra degree... etc. You should basically not sound interchangeable with a BA-only applicant.

[Two Espressos]

The difference is that, as an MA-holding applicant, you'll be expected to have a much more refined idea of what you want to study; and you will to some degree be expected to have "real-world" experience in terms of conference presentations. (Not publications.) The bar is higher for MA-holders, but in a way only because an MA-holder should, logically, be better prepared—they've done 1-2 years of grad school, they've got an extra degree... etc. You should basically not sound interchangeable with a BA-only applicant.

I was going to mention something to this effect earlier but didn't. I agree completely.

[HaruNoKaze]

Okay, so I got into UTA and have a friend in the program there. Here's what I've noticed from their process, they'll overlook a low subject score, especially if you have really strong SOPs and writing samples. LORs matter a lot, especially if the recommender is someone known and respected in the field. If your letter writers are not well known, really encourage them to focus on highlighting your specific abilities and qualities. You absolutely need three LORs and it is a good idea to have a 4th to send for those programs who will let you. The more glowing praise the better the impression. What about undergrad profs? Did you have close relationships with any of them? They might be your third LOR. Did you take any classes outside the dept. during your MA? Those profs might be an option. Definitely put conference presentations on your CV. You should also list relevant organizations (like the MLA) you belong to. This shows activism in your field and, most importantly, that you're following the current conversations in your subject areas. Grades also do matter, especially grad school grades. If you've got a lot of B's (a rarity in most English MA programs unless work is really not meeting expectations), you need to say why. Perhaps the grading in your program is more rigorous than a lot of other MA programs. UTA is open to people who already have MAs (I did and so did my friend). Princeton prefers direct-from-BA applicants. Berkeley has more MA-in-hand acceptances, but the majority appear to be from BA (applied there to and didn't get in). You can find this info out by reading the grad student profiles. More directly, email the English dept. grad secretaries and ask them about it. Some programs, like UW-Madison and CU-Boulder (among others), are moving away from people with an MA to preferring BA applicants because they want to mold their methodologies. It really just depends on the school. As for the GRE test change, well, I don't think anyone really knows the answer here. From what I understand, though, the actual scores aren't changing, just how the scores are calculated. I think they're moving from a computer-adaptive test to one with set question types graduated in difficulty. This means how they calculate your score will be different, but a 700 Verbal will still be in the 98% or whatever and so on. In that case, it really is still the score that matters most, so if you think you can get higher either retaking the current version before Aug 1 or waiting for the new version, that's your call. You can use your current scores and do research to find out if the schools you are applying to have cutoffs, care that much about scores, etc. Anyway, I'd definitely recommend you apply to more than the three schools you listed, not because I don't think you're competitive (no idea about that) but because it is so COMPETITIVE getting in anywhere (and something of a crapshoot too) that you want to have a range of programs and, consequently, possible options. Good luck!

I've talked to UT and the secretary in the office and she is soooo nice. She emailed me a list of what they look for in their writing sample, stipend info, and told me over the phone their target GRE scores. However, not any of the other schools have been as nice or as helpful. As for the GRE, the scoring is changing, when I read about the changes I thought I was going to die b/c i had already prepared for the GRE before (taken it twice already) and improved my score by 100 points.. new point system means idk wtf is going to happen.

I do have an undergrad professor I'm close to, but i double majored as an undergrad and he was for my second major (philosophy) I suppose I could ask him, but since it's outside of English, and not at the same university, and not for a MA class, I wasn't sure if he is really a viable option. I just worry it would be like asking someone in the math department to write me a letter of rec. And I am applying to three other schools, all in Texas though, but none of them nearly as competitive as Berkeley, Princeton, or UT. My professors always manage to give me good grades at the beginning of the semester, and then look for any excuse to give me a B, then by then end of the semester they give me a B for the class. Or, one of the two in particular, gives me As for all my assignments and then a C on my final project with some BS reasoning, leaves for a different state and I'm just supposed to play cool. But yea, I don't really know if I want her writing me a letter of rec anyway :/

[Two Espressos]

I do have an undergrad professor I'm close to, but i double majored as an undergrad and he was for my second major (philosophy) I suppose I could ask him, but since it's outside of English, and not at the same university, and not for a MA class, I wasn't sure if he is really a viable option. I just worry it would be like asking someone in the math department to write me a letter of rec.

An undergraduate professor in philosophy, whom you're close to, is definitely a viable option for your third letter of recommendation. Philosophy and English are very close disciplines; it's not like asking someone in the math department for a LOR at all.