Do most advisors take credit for the work their student's do?

[gradschoolnutty]

Just wondering if it's normal for professors to say "I wrote this paper" when you really wrote it or to take credit for work you've done in other ways by submitting the paper with notes written about "the author's" experiences, excluding any mention of you?

Anyone have any such experiences?

[robot_hamster]

Sounds a bit strange to me. I haven't published anything yet. From what I have seen though, advisers will have their name included as the last author on the paper. Some advisers insist on not having their name included. This was true for several professors in a lab I worked in. I haven't heard of a professor taking credit for one of their advisee's work though.

[runonsentence]

Nope. My advisor has co-authored papers with a number of students now. If the student made a smaller contribution than what usually warrants second-authorship, they at least get a "with" in the byline.

[Eigen]

No one I've worked with would do that, but it's sadly not "uncommon", at least in the sciences.

[kaykaykay]

My advisor asks me to write a couple of pages on a certain topic for him/her and takes parts out of it for his/her paper. But (s)he would not be unfair, anything beyond this has to come with coauthorship.

[process chemist]

What you are saying is very serious. It is call scientific misconduct, and should be reported to the dean of the college. If you are a victim of this, you need to cover you butt because if he has pulled this before, he could turn it on you. I hope you are asking a blanket statement, and it is not real. I have been a victim of this, and you need to take the necessary steps, and gather the necessary docs (copy NB pages and keep four sets, two in your house, one at your desk, and one with a trusted confidant), to clear this up. This is where having a great NB (notebook) comes in handy, because if he didn't record it as he did it, he didn't do it (standard GMP, GLP science). He should not be taking credit for your work. It is time to make waves, it may hurt, but trust me, if you are connected with this in any way, it may come back to bite you later in your career. Read about the MIT scientific misconduct case, and your state'slaws on this. This is serious.

[process chemist]

Also, gather any e-mails he has sent you, or any work plans, or notes from informal discussions you had where you took notes about any proposed work.

[eco_env]

My advisor asks me to write a couple of pages on a certain topic for him/her and takes parts out of it for his/her paper. But (s)he would not be unfair, anything beyond this has to come with coauthorship.

S/he copies your work without giving you credit as a coauthor? that doesn't sound OK to me.

[fuzzylogician]

I think it's OK for an advisor to present their students' work e.g. in invited talks, especially when the talk covers a broad topic and doesn't go into too many details. In that case, no particular contribution should be discussed for more than a few minutes, and in any event, all contributors' names should be mentioned when their contribution is discussed. It's NOT OK to present others' work as one's own without giving due credit, and it's certainly not OK to publish someone else's work as one's own. Even if a particular contribution doesn't merit co-authorship, it should still be acknowledged! OP: what your advisor is doing is wrong!!

As an aside: I once had a co-author refer to our work in the single person, e.g. "my work is blah ... I did blah ... etc" at a large conference with me standing on the podium right next to him!! And he took so long to present his part of the talk that we never got around to my part, which only made the situation worse. AND, the conference was held at my current institution, just months after I started my PhD there (which at the time I thought was awful because all my professors were there for the horrible scene, but in hindsight made it easier for me to set the record straight because of their support and first-hand experience of what happened).. Nothing I could do about it at the time - he was a senior professor and I was a lowly student, and it didn't seem like stopping the talk to say "WAIT, WHAT??" would be a good idea (although I am told that my face was practically shouting that:p). But I took pains to talk to every attendee of the talk that I could find in order to discuss my contribution, and I eventually got permission from my co-author to submit a single-authored paper to the proceedings without his name on it (but I did acknowledge him for his part--the paper mostly expanded on my part). Apparently he "didn't realize he was using the first person singular form." Ever since then I am very meticulous about both giving credit and taking credit. I think that learning to demand due credit is an important lesson to learn, although I wish I didn't have to learn it the way I did. Bottom line: don't give up on what is rightfully yours; you can set the record straight, and if you do it right you don't have to burn (m)any bridges. Eventually I think you'll be appreciated even more for standing up for yourself. At least, that has been my impression about my own situation. [sorry if this was a bit rambly, it's still a sore issue with me]

Edited July 17, 2011 by fuzzylogician

[ktel]

I hope to never find myself in this sort of position. It is obviously completely inappropriate for anyone to pass your work as their own, regardless of whether they are your supervisor or not. This highlights the importance of documenting your work very thoroughly. I keep a personal notebook where I document all work done, meetings, what was discussed, etc. It was something recommended to me in one of my "How to be an engineer" courses in case I am ever held liable for work done or face a similar plagiarism situation.

[TheSquirrel]

Just wondering if it's normal for professors to say "I wrote this paper" when you really wrote it or to take credit for work you've done in other ways by submitting the paper with notes written about "the author's" experiences, excluding any mention of you?

Anyone have any such experiences?

My supervisor told me, from the very start, that he does not want to put his name on anything I try to publish, because he wants me to market *myself* through my publications, whereas, according to him, if his name is on it , alongside mine, it might give the impression that it was written mostly by him, and my name was put on it just so that I'd appear in print. My impression is that in my field (Political Science), grad students tend to publish on their own, and don't have to add their supervisors' names, whereas in other fields, especially the natural sciences, they usually do include the supervisor's name... Also, my supervisor is one of the big names in the International Relations subfield of PoliSci, so he probably does not want people to think that he did the work and that I'm just using his name...

Edited July 17, 2011 by TheSquirrel

[gradschoolnutty]

My supervisor told me, from the very start, that he does not want to put his name on anything I try to publish, because he wants me to market *myself* through my publications, whereas, according to him, if his name is on it , alongside mine, it might give the impression that it was written mostly by him, and my name was put on it just so that I'd appear in print. My impression is that in my field (Political Science), grad students tend to publish on their own, and don't have to add their supervisors' names, whereas in other fields, especially the natural sciences, they usually do include the supervisor's name... Also, my supervisor is one of the big names in the International Relations subfield of PoliSci, so he probably does not want people to think that he did the work and that I'm just using his name...

That's really "noble" of your supervisor. I can see your advisor embraces the notion of true professorship.

Unfortunately, the sad reality is that no matter what is posted here, graduate students have little recourse if their advisors are powerful. Speaking up could mean the end of their careers.

[fuzzylogician]

Unfortunately, the sad reality is that no matter what is posted here, graduate students have little recourse if their advisors are powerful. Speaking up could mean the end of their careers.

On the other hand if your advisor steals all your work, you'll have a hard time getting your career started to begin with. It's possible that some of your stolen work can't be returned to you without outright accusing someone of stealing, which may be a bad political move; but at the very least you should (1) stop working with this person, and (2) learn how to lay the ground so that you can demand credit for your work, if needed. This could be in the form of choosing your colleagues and mentors correctly (talk to their colleagues, students and *former* students, learn about their reputation -- no one can steal from others for years without anyone knowing about it locally, even if no one has the courage to stand up for themselves); documenting your work; spreading the word about what you are up to, making sure that more than just your collaborator knows what you are doing, so your work can't just appear under another person's name without your being able to prove that it's yours. If your collaborator knows that others are aware that the work is yours (e.g., it's on your website, you've talked about it in seminars or with other professors, you've presented it at conferences, etc.), they will be less likely to attempt to outright steal it. Which obviously doesn't help correct the past, but could help protect you against this ever happening again in the future.

[gradschoolnutty]

On the other hand if your advisor steals all your work, you'll have a hard time getting your career started to begin with. It's possible that some of your stolen work can't be returned to you without outright accusing someone of stealing, which may be a bad political move; but at the very least you should (1) stop working with this person, and (2) learn how to lay the ground so that you can demand credit for your work, if needed. This could be in the form of choosing your colleagues and mentors correctly (talk to their colleagues, students and *former* students, learn about their reputation -- no one can steal from others for years without anyone knowing about it locally, even if no one has the courage to stand up for themselves); documenting your work; spreading the word about what you are up to, making sure that more than just your collaborator knows what you are doing, so your work can't just appear under another person's name without your being able to prove that it's yours. If your collaborator knows that others are aware that the work is yours (e.g., it's on your website, you've talked about it in seminars or with other professors, you've presented it at conferences, etc.), they will be less likely to attempt to outright steal it. Which obviously doesn't help correct the past, but could help protect you against this ever happening again in the future.

Thanks for both of your replies. They are extremely helpful. I am going to have to get smarter. I really appreciate your input.

[gradschoolnutty]

One more question. Do advisors normally submit papers without telling their students they are going to? Other students in the lab have experienced this. One of the professors in our group has taken several of the students' papers, revised sections, and submitted the papers without letting the student review the paper first or without telling the students she was going to submit the papers to these places at all. Some of the students were embarrassed because the papers were first drafts. The professor put the students' names on the papers.

Is this normal?

Edited July 19, 2011 by gradschoolnutty

[ktel]

None of what you are asking sounds normal or professional. Listen to what you described and I think it should be quite clear to yourself that this is unprofessional behavior.

[gradschoolnutty]

None of what you are asking sounds normal or professional. Listen to what you described and I think it should be quite clear to yourself that this is unprofessional behavior.

I know it's not professional, but I am wondering if it is normal "behind the scenes", as in it occurs frequently enough.

[IRdreams]

I am not in a lab field so take what I say with a grain of salt, but this really doesn't sound normal. I talked with my mom who has her phD in PChem and she said that this behavior was definitely not the norm in her experience though admittedly her degree was in the 80s. I would strongly consider doing whatever possible to get out from under this adviser since it seems like she is stealing and sabotaging the careers of her students. But that just my 0.02.

[aginath]

These are very broad questions and part of the answers may vary by discipline (and even within a discipline depending upon the culture of the college/department/program).

I've seen it happen (both an advisor publishing a student's work and an advisor submitting a paper with a student as co-author without informing them). My own advisor is very careful to talk about authorship and ownership upfront. I have published with him, but he was third author on the paper (I was first and another student was second). Right now I have a paper out for submission where I am second author and he is eighth. On the other hand, I also have a paper in press where I am the sole author and it's based on a case study I conducted for one of his classes.

The bottom line is, it happens.

[crossroads]

One more question. Do advisors normally submit papers without telling their students they are going to? Other students in the lab have experienced this. One of the professors in our group has taken several of the students' papers, revised sections, and submitted the papers without letting the student review the paper first or without telling the students she was going to submit the papers to these places at all. Some of the students were embarrassed because the papers were first drafts. The professor put the students' names on the papers.

Is this normal?

What you can do depends ALOT on the institution you are in. Your posts give me the feeling that it is prevailing practice at the place you are at. Because of this I'm focusing exclusively on politics, which has been somewhat ignored in other posts. Other aspects are certainly important. However, no matter how much those practices are actually not supported in your institution, the situation is very political. So it is important you are aware of it.

Ethical behavior may be a ceremonial affair. People will give lip service to it, so if you take on the issue head-on you may find yourself tacitly excluded from the program and the entire case buried. I'm not saying not to fight, but to pay close attention to the culture and politics of the institution you are in. If you chose to fight it head-on, to achieve success in such a context it is almost certain that outside pressure will need to be exercised. This might mean media, attorneys, exposing the issue to the wider community, a combination of these means or the threat of their use. Do you have the time, inclination, and resources to embark on such a journey? However noble the idea, my guess is that this will not be the preferred path.

On the other, some of the advice fuzzylogician gave is very good (see fuzzylogician, on 18 July 2011 - 12:47 AM). Talk to people, network, get involved in a project with people outside of your institution that are attractive and that nobody has links to - this will give you some power. Discuss your work with others and if possible communicate it to outside audiences. Make sure your "supervisor", the s.o.b., knows about your actions. Don't confront him/her, at least until you are on more stable ground. Don't give the impression you are doing this to escape is cluch. Play innocent - <<Ohh, that can't be possible because I've been discussing/presenting/working with so and so or at so and so>>. At the moment, you are taken for a fool, so you have some slack before he/she realizes you are acting (present yourself as an eager worker out of his/her control). Later you will have to turn your apparent innocence into apparent political competence and the s.o.b. will slowly start to respect you.

However, BEWARE not to provoke retaliation. It is most likely this has been done before without any consequences. So your "supervisor" has been collecting credit at the expense of others, which are important to move his/her career forward. Also, talking about the issue to everybody is not necessarily a good idea. If this has been done by him/her it is very possible others are doing it. You are not in a position to take on the status quo. But don't forget to act. Power is a relational issue, things will not change without action.

By the way. Perhaps I should have started with this. Have you been in the program long? Do you know if other institutions are like that in your field and where you are? It might be that changing institutions is something you can consider seriously. If not, it is likely that you'll have to adapt and make some concessions. How did past colleagues dealt with that issue and what is the best you can hope for? In the case of communications (articles, conferences, the lot) my guess is that you should not accept anything other than name in first place or name in second place, considering the s.o.b. had poor to no participation in the work.

HTH

Edited July 20, 2011 by crossroads

[gradschoolnutty]

Hey, thanks! These are GREAT suggestions. I will certainly take your advice and start setting up connections and talking to everyone I can about my projects. This will also involve some secrecy - I probably shouldn't discuss my results to those I do not trust. I should wait until the VERY LAST minute to do so. The trick will be to show I am making progress without divulging any information. I'll talk very high level and explain few details until it's in a public place... flash a shiny object in another direction while checking out important results.

I find this to be very sad, however. The fact that students have to get this desperate to not get screwed by those who are supposed to be mentoring them. Really, some people are just well-paid thieves.

I appreciate all of your comments.

BTW, there will be no changing of programs. I just want to get done and get out.

Edited July 21, 2011 by gradschoolnutty

[fuzzylogician]

I don't know what field you're in but isn't it enough to talk about methods and research questions for it to be clear that you are working on a certain topic and that any results should be credited to you?

[vitaminquartet]

On the other hand, in law, where co-authors are uncommon, law student research assistants routinely write substantive footnotes and do extensive (or even most or nearly all) of the research for an article - and they are never given co-author credit (only acknowledgment). On the other hand law professors making extensive criticisms and suggesting ideas to student papers would never be given co-authorship either - they would rather be thanked in the initial footnote and then referenced any time they contributed something.

[InquilineKea]

Wow..

I've heard some nasty stories that came out of certain fields. On the other hand, I've actually had advisors who actually gave me more credit than I deserved (which I'm thankful for but don't explicitly acknowledge due to awkwardedness)

[hermandez]

The advice fuzzylogician gave is very good (see fuzzylogician, on 18 July 2011 - 12:47 AM). Talk to people, network, get involved in a project with people outside of your institution that are attractive and that nobody has links to - this will give you some power. Discuss your work with others and if possible communicate it to outside audiences. Make sure your "supervisor", the s.o.b., knows about your actions. Don't confront him/her, at least until you are on more stable ground. Don't give the impression you are doing this to escape is cluch. Play innocent - <<Ohh, that can't be possible because I've been discussing/presenting/working with so and so or at so and so>>. At the moment, you are taken for a fool, so you have some slack before he/she realizes you are acting (present yourself as an eager worker out of his/her control). Later you will have to turn your apparent innocence into apparent political competence and the s.o.b. will slowly start to respect you.