Advice for an Undergraduate?

[Cavum]

Hello! I am currently an undergraduate at USC. I will be a junior in the coming fall, and I am majoring in History while minoring in Business.

I want to go onto grad school for History, and hopefully end up researching for a University of my choice. The thing is, my GPA is abysmal right now - 2.64. I don't have any excuse for it. I tried my hand at the sciences for two years because 1) my parents basically said that if I didn't, they would not help me pay for college and 2) they gave me the worst nightmares of not having any sort of stability in my life. For my parents, no major exists except for Business and Biology/Chemistry/Physics/Etc. I decided to take classes in both majors - and I called it quits this summer after I ended up failing one of my biology classes. I hate Biology. I hate any science, and it's definitely not in my blood (though, stereotypically, it should be).

At the end of the Spring Semester this year (when I felt the eminent doom of failing a class), I talked with my advisor. I expressed my interest in getting a Ph.D in history. He basically scoffed and said that my grades are too low and there really is no point in trying. I was depressed after that for a good two months. I mean - does my life end here? What do I do now?

I've decided to keep at it. Some how, in some way, I will get into a respectable graduate program. But before that happens, I need to know what to do with my two (may be three, to bring up my grades) years left at USC.

Some of my questions are:

What is the process of applying to a graduate school, and specifically a graduate program for history?

What are somethings that you did to create a top notch CV for the graduate program you applied to?

How did you get good recommendations from professors?

What was your GPA (if you're will to tell, of course )?

What are some activities I can do to show that my interest in history and build up my own CV?

What are some of the programs you applied to?

Any other tips?

I am currently look at the NYU history program, but this is all just speculation unless I start doing well in my classes.

[lyonessrampant]

It certainly isn't the end of the road. When you apply for history programs, you report what your GPA is for history only as well as your cumulative GPA. What is your history GPA? Keep that up as high as you can, and address the science thing briefly in your SOP. Also, when you do get to the application stage, apply to MA as well as Ph.D. programs. You may need to go do the MA, get really good grades there, and show that you have the stamina and academic rigor for the Ph.D. As for things to do now, well, I'm not in your field, but this is pretty general advice:

-try to TA or RA for a professor, even just helping him/her with research (paid or not)

-join history organizations

-attend history conferences and apply to present as well, especially at undergraduate conferences

-look for undergrad history journals you can submit your work to

-build strong relationships with professors (go to their office hours, speak up in class, work hard on your papers, etc.)

-start trying to figure out your subfield now

-read journals in your area so you are aware of current conversations and scholarship

-start studying for the GRE and the subject test for history (is there one?). A high GRE score can offset your GPA.

I'm in English, my major GPA was 3.9 as was my MA GPA. My overall GPA (I was English/chemistry) was 3.7. I think, though, that this doesn't really matter. You have to focus on the next couple of years and start putting things into place for graduate work in history, if that's what you want to do. You can make it work!

[lyonessrampant]

Oh and start work on your languages now! If you are ancient to early modern history, you need Latin and at least one other language. Pick related to your subfield.

[ZeeMore21]

Hey,

I have a similar story to you....had originally wanted to go into the Humanities, but parents thought the sciences would be a better idea, so I went in as a Pre-med major. Needless to say, I didn't do too well in the first 2 years of college...hated my major, wasn't good at it, but also was just not as concentrated on schoolwork as I should have been. I ended up switching to English with the encouragement of my dean, and never looked back. I graduated with a 2.99, which was unfortunate, but I really had no one to blame but myself. But anyway, I wanted to do a doctorate in English, so I did a 1 year Masters in English at Carnegie Mellon, did a 1 year fellowship program (awarded $18, 300 just to take courses and prepare for a doctorate program) at the University of Pittsburgh, and will be starting a PhD at Vanderbilt in the fall for English. If you look at my signature below, you will see that I had a pretty successful admission season...got into 7 doctoral programs and even got wait-listed at Princeton. For Vanderbilt, I was awarded a topping-up scholarship on top of my stipend as a reward for academic achievement.

I tell you all this to say that no matter where you are starting from, you can get to where you are going with enough determination. Feeling sorry for yourself will get you no where. Of course, it would be nice to finish off with a 4.00 GPA, but you also have to keep in mind that you can still do what you have to do to get to where you want to go. I would say that you should work extremely hard in your history courses...I would shoot for all As and nothing lower than a B. Your History GPA has to be very high because graduate admissions committee will be focusing more on your major GPA than the overall. Also, I would make sure you create strong relationships with your History professors so that you can depend on them come recommendation time. If you don't succeed in your History courses or are not able to get approval from any History professors, you will have a hard time getting into a graduate program.

I would recommend that you look into getting a Masters first.....I did so and got a 4.00 overall GPA. When I did the fellowship program, I ended with a 4.00 overall GPA as well. This definitely helped show admissions committees that I was able to handle graduate level work and was serious about my studies. I also built very strong relationships with many professors at my masters program and the fellowship program, so I was confident that there were many professors who would able to argue on my behalf as far as recommendations were concerned.

But to end my rambling, I would say please don't let ANYONE tell you that you can't achieve your goals. I would seek the support of someone else besides your dean if he or she is giving you a hard time. Obviously, yes, you will have to put in a lot more work as opposed to someone who has a higher GPA. Yet, you are where you are, so just do your very best to end your undergrad on a high note, especially when it comes to your major. You can do it! If I did, anyone can

Edited July 18, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[ZeeMore21]

Also, I feel for you on the depression part...took me a while to get back on my feet. A solution for the feeling down part is just to immerse yourself in your work...when you see how well you are doing grade-wise and are supported by your professors, I am sure your self-esteem will grow. Again, good luck! You have a full 2 years to get back on your feet..more than enough time.

Edited July 18, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[grapefruit]

Hard work is the only thing you need. Not tomorrow, not later tonight, now. If you want a career in this you have to understand that getting the tools for your future is the best way to raise your self-esteem, your grades will simply be a reflection of the hard work.

The same thing happened to a lot of people that were basically forced by "the world" into degrees- and ultimately, careers- that they hated and now their lives are miserable because of that. Consider yourself lucky for escaping a life of misery in a job that you hate/don't care about and use what you have learned to improve yourself and your chances for the future.

As for the tips... you already know for sure that you're in love with history, so try to figure out what your favorite periods are and start investing your spare time into that. Subscribe to history publications, learn a foreign language, travel to the places that inspire you. Make history a part of your life.

[ZeeMore21]

Hard work is the only thing you need. Not tomorrow, not later tonight, now. If you want a career in this you have to understand that getting the tools for your future is the best way to raise your self-esteem, your grades will simply be a reflection of the hard work.

The same thing happened to a lot of people that were basically forced by "the world" into degrees- and ultimately, careers- that they hated and now their lives are miserable because of that. Consider yourself lucky for escaping a life of misery in a job that you hate/don't care about and use what you have learned to improve yourself and your chances for the future.

As for the tips... you already know for sure that you're in love with history, so try to figure out what your favorite periods are and start investing your spare time into that. Subscribe to history publications, learn a foreign language, travel to the places that inspire you. Make history a part of your life.

This post is wonderful, thanks grapefruit.

[Cavum]

It certainly isn't the end of the road. When you apply for history programs, you report what your GPA is for history only as well as your cumulative GPA. What is your history GPA? Keep that up as high as you can, and address the science thing briefly in your SOP. Also, when you do get to the application stage, apply to MA as well as Ph.D. programs. You may need to go do the MA, get really good grades there, and show that you have the stamina and academic rigor for the Ph.D. As for things to do now, well, I'm not in your field, but this is pretty general advice:

-try to TA or RA for a professor, even just helping him/her with research (paid or not)

-join history organizations

-attend history conferences and apply to present as well, especially at undergraduate conferences

-look for undergrad history journals you can submit your work to

-build strong relationships with professors (go to their office hours, speak up in class, work hard on your papers, etc.)

-start trying to figure out your subfield now

-read journals in your area so you are aware of current conversations and scholarship

-start studying for the GRE and the subject test for history (is there one?). A high GRE score can offset your GPA.

I'm in English, my major GPA was 3.9 as was my MA GPA. My overall GPA (I was English/chemistry) was 3.7. I think, though, that this doesn't really matter. You have to focus on the next couple of years and start putting things into place for graduate work in history, if that's what you want to do. You can make it work!

Thank you for replying lyonessrampant! My history GPA isn't stellar either, but I am *highly* motivated to do well in my upcoming history classes. I have never thought about attending a MA programs - how does that work? What would be some good MA programs for History (or, what would be some good places to look into to find out)?

And thank you for such encouragement! I greatly appreciate it!

And also, just another question - as a graduate student, how was your 'everyday life?' Besides studying, what does one do as graduate student? I'm quite curious to know! :3

[Cavum]

Hey,

I have a similar story to you....had originally wanted to go into the Humanities, but parents thought the sciences would be a better idea, so I went in as a Pre-med major. Needless to say, I didn't do too well in the first 2 years of college...hated my major, wasn't good at it, but also was just not as concentrated on schoolwork as I should have been. I ended up switching to English with the encouragement of my dean, and never looked back. I graduated with a 2.99, which was unfortunate, but I really had no one to blame but myself. But anyway, I wanted to do a doctorate in English, so I did a 1 year Masters in English at Carnegie Mellon, did a 1 year fellowship program (awarded $18, 300 just to take courses and prepare for a doctorate program) at the University of Pittsburgh, and will be starting a PhD at Vanderbilt in the fall for English. If you look at my signature below, you will see that I had a pretty successful admission season...got into 7 doctoral programs and even got wait-listed at Princeton. For Vanderbilt, I was awarded a topping-up scholarship on top of my stipend as a reward for academic achievement.

I tell you all this to say that no matter where you are starting from, you can get to where you are going with enough determination. Feeling sorry for yourself will get you no where. Of course, it would be nice to finish off with a 4.00 GPA, but you also have to keep in mind that you can still do what you have to do to get to where you want to go. I would say that you should work extremely hard in your history courses...I would shoot for all As and nothing lower than a B. Your History GPA has to be very high because graduate admissions committee will be focusing more on your major GPA than the overall. Also, I would make sure you create strong relationships with your History professors so that you can depend on them come recommendation time. If you don't succeed in your History courses or are not able to get approval from any History professors, you will have a hard time getting into a graduate program.

I would recommend that you look into getting a Masters first.....I did so and got a 4.00 overall GPA. When I did the fellowship program, I ended with a 4.00 overall GPA as well. This definitely helped show admissions committees that I was able to handle graduate level work and was serious about my studies. I also built very strong relationships with many professors at my masters program and the fellowship program, so I was confident that there were many professors who would able to argue on my behalf as far as recommendations were concerned.

But to end my rambling, I would say please don't let ANYONE tell you that you can't achieve your goals. I would seek the support of someone else besides your dean if he or she is giving you a hard time. Obviously, yes, you will have to put in a lot more work as opposed to someone who has a higher GPA. Yet, you are where you are, so just do your very best to end your undergrad on a high note, especially when it comes to your major. You can do it! If I did, anyone can

Thank you for your encouragement ZeeMore21! And thank you for such an inspiring story and all the advice! I am happy that all has worked out for you, and I hope that all will work out for me too :3. I am certainly done with my parents pushing me around to do what they want. These last two years were... difficult, to say the least. I want to look forward with fresh face, and will work hard to get where I want to be! People like you certainly give me the confidence that not all hope is lost :3...

And just as a side question - what is it like studying after college. And I don't mean by actual studying, but your everyday life? Is it always about studying or do you have to time to yourself, etc?

[lyonessrampant]

Since I'm English not history, I'm not in a great place to make program recommendations. The history forum will be a better place for that, especially once you say what subfields you are interested in. However, you can start by looking at history rankings in US News and World Report (or some other ranking) just to get an idea of what programs are out there. Then you can go to the program webpages and find out if they offer an MA, if they provide funding, and what admission requirements are. In English most of the funded MA programs are at schools ranked lower (like around 100 or so) or schools that don't offer a Ph.D. That's fine, as a funded MA at a lower-ranked school is generally better than an unfunded MA at a highly ranked school. You'll get some graduate research experience, build your CV, have another arena to get a GPA, and make professional contacts. As for grad life, well, I was really busy because my MA was an accelerated one-year program. I did coursework, wrote a thesis, and did not teach. My MA was partially funded, and if I knew then what I do now, I probably would have applied to a lot more MA programs (I actually didn't apply to any). However, I did work from home some and I enjoyed myself. I worked out regularly, went to social events, and explored the city of Chicago. I expect my Ph.D. experience to be a bit less hectic. We'll see this fall!

Do your best with your remaining time and focus on, like grapefruit said, making history a part of your life. That work, dedication, and enthusiasm will pay off!

[Cavum]

Hard work is the only thing you need. Not tomorrow, not later tonight, now. If you want a career in this you have to understand that getting the tools for your future is the best way to raise your self-esteem, your grades will simply be a reflection of the hard work.

The same thing happened to a lot of people that were basically forced by "the world" into degrees- and ultimately, careers- that they hated and now their lives are miserable because of that. Consider yourself lucky for escaping a life of misery in a job that you hate/don't care about and use what you have learned to improve yourself and your chances for the future.

As for the tips... you already know for sure that you're in love with history, so try to figure out what your favorite periods are and start investing your spare time into that. Subscribe to history publications, learn a foreign language, travel to the places that inspire you. Make history a part of your life.

I agree with ZeeMore21 - this is wonderful advice. I am quite happy that I took the time to seriously think about this now, rather than just chug along mindlessly. And thank you for your tips as well! I loved your line: "Make history a part of your life." It's something that I fully intend to do :3

[ZeeMore21]

Thank you for your encouragement ZeeMore21! And thank you for such an inspiring story and all the advice! I am happy that all has worked out for you, and I hope that all will work out for me too :3. I am certainly done with my parents pushing me around to do what they want. These last two years were... difficult, to say the least. I want to look forward with fresh face, and will work hard to get where I want to be! People like you certainly give me the confidence that not all hope is lost :3...

And just as a side question - what is it like studying after college. And I don't mean by actual studying, but your everyday life? Is it always about studying or do you have to time to yourself, etc?

Aww, well glad I could help! I definitely am here for you since I do know what you're going through. I am very happy that you have a whole two years to do the best you can...I think it was very wise for you to start asking for advice now, I have no doubt that you will do well with the time you have left.

As far as graduate school is concerned, I think the big difference is that you definitely have way more responsibilities. In undergrad, I think you live in a bubble for the most part, everything is taken care of you for the most part (food, living expenses, etc) and all you have to do is study. With graduate school, you are more or less an adult, and your professors and classmates treat you like one...there really isn't the "babying" you get while in undergrad. Plus, you have stuff like rent, cooking, and bills to deal with so you do have to work harder to balance your outside responsibilities with your academic work.

I have realized that it is very important to take time out for yourself...you will go crazy if you don't! Eating right, exercising, and going out with friends are all very important. I do see, however, that my brain is always wrapped around everything English though...I think that comes in part because of the whole specialization process...your graduate education will be geared solely toward your field and nothing else. I do love graduate work because of this though, I get to devote all of my studying time to something I am interested in.

[Two Espressos]

Hello! I am currently an undergraduate at USC. I will be a junior in the coming fall, and I am majoring in History while minoring in Business.

I want to go onto grad school for History, and hopefully end up researching for a University of my choice. The thing is, my GPA is abysmal right now - 2.64. I don't have any excuse for it. I tried my hand at the sciences for two years because 1) my parents basically said that if I didn't, they would not help me pay for college and 2) they gave me the worst nightmares of not having any sort of stability in my life. For my parents, no major exists except for Business and Biology/Chemistry/Physics/Etc. I decided to take classes in both majors - and I called it quits this summer after I ended up failing one of my biology classes. I hate Biology. I hate any science, and it's definitely not in my blood (though, stereotypically, it should be).

At the end of the Spring Semester this year (when I felt the eminent doom of failing a class), I talked with my advisor. I expressed my interest in getting a Ph.D in history. He basically scoffed and said that my grades are too low and there really is no point in trying. I was depressed after that for a good two months. I mean - does my life end here? What do I do now?

I'm still an undergraduate, but I'll chime in with some thoughts.

Firstly, I, like ZeeMore21 and others, switched from a science to the humanities (in my case, it was from pre-pharmacy to English). It's extremely common. Unfortunately, many students choose to do this for less honorable reasons than you, I, ZeeMore21, etc: mainly, they want a major that is "easier" (I think this phenomenon contributes to the anti-humanities bias that is present throughout popular culture and some corners of academia).

Anyways, I'm in English rather than History, so I cannot comment upon which graduate programs you should research. I would, however, encourage you to look into MA programs in addition to PhD programs, as admission into these programs is less competitive. They would serve as excellent preparation for PhD programs.

Although I do not know the nuances of the conversation, I would agree with your advisor to a degree: as it currently stands, it would be pointless to apply to PhD programs. Most English graduate programs require a 3.0 minimum GPA for admittance; I would expect History programs to be similar. That being said, there's no reason that you cannot completely turn things around, as you have two years left and a sincere desire to improve. My GPA was rather poor in my first year, but I've since improved. With determination, you can do the same.

I'm glad you've chosen a field that fascinates you! Too many students choose majors based on their job prospects, which is very unwise.

I wish you the best of luck.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Two Espressos

[grapefruit]

Let me add that this was basically my own experience, I made the huge mistake of throwing myself into Ancient History without knowing a word of either Greek or Latin. When I started to realize how difficult it was soul crashing and ultimately ended up almost dropping out of university before realizing that ancient history could have been just an interest inside a larger plan.

Don't forget that skills such as foreign languages and generic knowledge, mandatory for historians, can take years to develop. I was lucky enough to have been born in Europe where everybody is forced to study 2-3 foreign languages at school, and at some point it only made sense to put my pride aside and switch to modern/contemporary history where, all of sudden, I was one of the best students of my class simply because the passion was still there even after all these years.

There was another user there that mentioned writing down a list of your favorite historical periods in order to decide the subject of your thesis, I'd suggest doing the same even before enrolling: make a list of those historical periods that motivate you, and see what you can do right now.

My favorite historical periods? The Persian wars, Octavian's rise to power, Russian Enlightenment, the Soviet world, industrial history, the World Wars.

Am I going to take (again) Greek, Latin or Russian classes in order to be a professional expert about one of these? Hell no, not again, I'll just keep them as a hobby while I focus on industrial history and the wars, since it's something I still enjoy and I have all the required knowledge to begin with.

You can see where this discussion is going, hope you can find what you're looking for.

[Cavum]

Since I'm English not history, I'm not in a great place to make program recommendations. The history forum will be a better place for that, especially once you say what subfields you are interested in. However, you can start by looking at history rankings in US News and World Report (or some other ranking) just to get an idea of what programs are out there. Then you can go to the program webpages and find out if they offer an MA, if they provide funding, and what admission requirements are. In English most of the funded MA programs are at schools ranked lower (like around 100 or so) or schools that don't offer a Ph.D. That's fine, as a funded MA at a lower-ranked school is generally better than an unfunded MA at a highly ranked school. You'll get some graduate research experience, build your CV, have another arena to get a GPA, and make professional contacts. As for grad life, well, I was really busy because my MA was an accelerated one-year program. I did coursework, wrote a thesis, and did not teach. My MA was partially funded, and if I knew then what I do now, I probably would have applied to a lot more MA programs (I actually didn't apply to any). However, I did work from home some and I enjoyed myself. I worked out regularly, went to social events, and explored the city of Chicago. I expect my Ph.D. experience to be a bit less hectic. We'll see this fall!

Do your best with your remaining time and focus on, like grapefruit said, making history a part of your life. That work, dedication, and enthusiasm will pay off!

Thank you!

[Cavum]

Aww, well glad I could help! I definitely am here for you since I do know what you're going through. I am very happy that you have a whole two years to do the best you can...I think it was very wise for you to start asking for advice now, I have no doubt that you will do well with the time you have left.

As far as graduate school is concerned, I think the big difference is that you definitely have way more responsibilities. In undergrad, I think you live in a bubble for the most part, everything is taken care of you for the most part (food, living expenses, etc) and all you have to do is study. With graduate school, you are more or less an adult, and your professors and classmates treat you like one...there really isn't the "babying" you get while in undergrad. Plus, you have stuff like rent, cooking, and bills to deal with so you do have to work harder to balance your outside responsibilities with your academic work.

I have realized that it is very important to take time out for yourself...you will go crazy if you don't! Eating right, exercising, and going out with friends are all very important. I do see, however, that my brain is always wrapped around everything English though...I think that comes in part because of the whole specialization process...your graduate education will be geared solely toward your field and nothing else. I do love graduate work because of this though, I get to devote all of my studying time to something I am interested in.

I want to be just like that! I want to be breathing history, especially the periods that I'm interested in! And thank you for taking the time to help me out! :]

[ZeeMore21]

I want to be just like that! I want to be breathing history, especially the periods that I'm interested in! And thank you for taking the time to help me out! :]

Haha, well you will certainly get there with enough commitment and time! It's bound to happen. At some point you won't even have to try to think History...your brain will just run on its own. I will say it can get a bit crazy sometimes

[Cavum]

I'm still an undergraduate, but I'll chime in with some thoughts.

Firstly, I, like ZeeMore21 and others, switched from a science to the humanities (in my case, it was from pre-pharmacy to English). It's extremely common. Unfortunately, many students choose to do this for less honorable reasons than you, I, ZeeMore21, etc: mainly, they want a major that is "easier" (I think this phenomenon contributes to the anti-humanities bias that is present throughout popular culture and some corners of academia).

Anyways, I'm in English rather than History, so I cannot comment upon which graduate programs you should research. I would, however, encourage you to look into MA programs in addition to PhD programs, as admission into these programs is less competitive. They would serve as excellent preparation for PhD programs.

Although I do not know the nuances of the conversation, I would agree with your advisor to a degree: as it currently stands, it would be pointless to apply to PhD programs. Most English graduate programs require a 3.0 minimum GPA for admittance; I would expect History programs to be similar. That being said, there's no reason that you cannot completely turn things around, as you have two years left and a sincere desire to improve. My GPA was rather poor in my first year, but I've since improved. With determination, you can do the same.

I'm glad you've chosen a field that fascinates you! Too many students choose majors based on their job prospects, which is very unwise.

I wish you the best of luck.

I'm relieved that I am not the only one who goes through this. Everyone from my friends to my roommates are all in science majors, and of course, they are all in it for the money. I know a couple of students who changed majors from business to the sciences, but I have yet to hear about any student who has changed majors from, say, a science or business to the humanities. Maybe I should count my lucky stars that I've decided this early on rather than later .

And thank you for the luck! I am well aware that job prospects are abysmally low... but I can't even imagine myself working as a secretary in a doctor's office, going over charts and what-not, let alone being an actual doctor .

[Cavum]

Let me add that this was basically my own experience, I made the huge mistake of throwing myself into Ancient History without knowing a word of either Greek or Latin. When I started to realize how difficult it was soul crashing and ultimately ended up almost dropping out of university before realizing that ancient history could have been just an interest inside a larger plan.

Don't forget that skills such as foreign languages and generic knowledge, mandatory for historians, can take years to develop. I was lucky enough to have been born in Europe where everybody is forced to study 2-3 foreign languages at school, and at some point it only made sense to put my pride aside and switch to modern/contemporary history where, all of sudden, I was one of the best students of my class simply because the passion was still there even after all these years.

There was another user there that mentioned writing down a list of your favorite historical periods in order to decide the subject of your thesis, I'd suggest doing the same even before enrolling: make a list of those historical periods that motivate you, and see what you can do right now.

My favorite historical periods? The Persian wars, Octavian's rise to power, Russian Enlightenment, the Soviet world, industrial history, the World Wars.

Am I going to take (again) Greek, Latin or Russian classes in order to be a professional expert about one of these? Hell no, not again, I'll just keep them as a hobby while I focus on industrial history and the wars, since it's something I still enjoy and I have all the required knowledge to begin with.

You can see where this discussion is going, hope you can find what you're looking for.

I think that's something important to remember - about the interest. Though I want to immerse myself in history, I also want to immerse myself in languages - just as an interest though. I've been pronounced, by the university, as fluent in Spanish (certainly need to brush up though - four years of studying it doesn't mean I'm fluent T.T I'd love to study Italian and (for personal interest) Korean.

I'm not quite sure what periods I am in interested in. I've only ever taken classes that had to do with British History, but I'd love to study (and see if like) French History, Italian History, and Indian History :3. I'm more fascinated with the culture of Korea than anything else - but again, that is a hobby .

Thank you for all your help! I am have learned a lot about differentiating interests/hobbies from actual career interests.

[Sigaba]

Hello! I am currently an undergraduate at USC. I will be a junior in the coming fall, and I am majoring in History while minoring in Business.

At the end of the Spring Semester this year (when I felt the eminent doom of failing a class), I talked with my advisor. I expressed my interest in getting a Ph.D in history.

Are you talking about the University of Southern California and is the adviser in question Joe Styles?

[CageFree]

Which USC are you at? We might just be crosstown rivals

I had a similar situation... started out in engineering, did very poorly (failed a calc class twice, had Cs in everything else), so I switched out and chose history. My first three major classes were in the B range - all lower division; partly because I was overcoming the rest of a language barrier, partly because I'd never been trained as a historian - didn't know how to write research papers, for example. Then I took a lower division seminar and the lightbulb went on... that's what I wanted to do. From that point forward, I kicked major behind... one year I actually had no grade lower than an A- for any quarter. Because of a couple of B+ here and there, I ended up with a 3.64 in major, 3.7 in the last 60 units.. even though I graduated with a 3.1, thanks to the F that I could never have removed. I also wrote an honors thesis.

I;m a non-traditional student; I took a decade off, and have been teaching. With a very high GRE, and with recent letters of rec from professors I worked with 11 years ago, I could get into a fairly competitive Ph.D. program but I want the best. So I'm just going to get into a terminal MA program, do a master's thesis, get a very high GPA (hopefully a 4), and with letters of rec I should be competitive to go just about anywhere. I highly doubt that admissions people are going to look at an F in multivariable integral calc right before an obvious switch as an undergrad, ignore the rest of what I've done since, and say... "nope, not good enough. Failed a calc class and couldn't pass it the second time. Off with her head!" In fact, UCLA told me not to worry about that.

So.. my advice is, work your BUTT off to get As in the rest of your history classes. DO a thesis and complete it no matter what... even if you need to take an extension. Choose a field where you already know the language, or start taking that language NOW. Your final GPA will not be great... but it will be better than mine. Get into a good MA program where you can be near or at the top of the class, write an excellent thesis, get published. You will then be able to get that Ph.D. that your advisor says is out of your league.

Yeah, it will take work. But you CAN do it.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Teacher4MA

[Sigaba]

Which USC are you at? We might just be crosstown rivals

I had a similar situation... started out in engineering, did very poorly (failed a calc class twice, had Cs in everything else), so I switched out and chose history. My first three major classes were in the B range - all lower division; partly because I was overcoming the rest of a language barrier, partly because I'd never been trained as a historian - didn't know how to write research papers, for example. Then I took a lower division seminar and the lightbulb went on... that's what I wanted to do. From that point forward, I kicked major behind... one year I actually had no grade lower than an A- for any quarter. Because of a couple of B+ here and there, I ended up with a 3.64 in major, 3.7 in the last 60 units.. even though I graduated with a 3.1, thanks to the F that I could never have removed. I also wrote an honors thesis.

I;m a non-traditional student; I took a decade off, and have been teaching. With a very high GRE, and with recent letters of rec from professors I worked with 11 years ago, I could get into a fairly competitive Ph.D. program but I want the best. So I'm just going to get into a terminal MA program, do a master's thesis, get a very high GPA (hopefully a 4), and with letters of rec I should be competitive to go just about anywhere. I highly doubt that admissions people are going to look at an F in multivariable integral calc right before an obvious switch as an undergrad, ignore the rest of what I've done since, and say... "nope, not good enough. Failed a calc class and couldn't pass it the second time. Off with her head!" In fact, UCLA told me not to worry about that.

So.. my advice is, work your BUTT off to get As in the rest of your history classes. DO a thesis and complete it no matter what... even if you need to take an extension. Choose a field where you already know the language, or start taking that language NOW. Your final GPA will not be great... but it will be better than mine. Get into a good MA program where you can be near or at the top of the class, write an excellent thesis, get published. You will then be able to get that Ph.D. that your advisor says is out of your league.

Yeah, it will take work. But you CAN do it.

Teacher4MA--

When you go from a MA program to a Ph.D program, your GPA in that program may not figure as prominently in the decision making process as your thesis, publications/presentations, letters of recommendation, statement of purpose, and, for better and for worse, your field of specialization.

[CageFree]

Teacher4MA--

When you go from a MA program to a Ph.D program, your GPA in that program may not figure as prominently in the decision making process as your thesis, publications/presentations, letters of recommendation, statement of purpose, and, for better and for worse, your field of specialization.

Oh, I understand that. My thesis is what will make me or break me. But considering how shoddy my overall GPA was due to my... runs in with engineering, so to speak... I feel like I need to make up for that deficiency. :/

[Cavum]

Are you talking about the University of Southern California and is the adviser in question Joe Styles?

Why do you ask? ... But no, I'm taking about the other USC lol... Why? Did you happen to go to the University of Southern California? I hear its a fantastic school ...

[Cavum]

Which USC are you at? We might just be crosstown rivals

I had a similar situation... started out in engineering, did very poorly (failed a calc class twice, had Cs in everything else), so I switched out and chose history. My first three major classes were in the B range - all lower division; partly because I was overcoming the rest of a language barrier, partly because I'd never been trained as a historian - didn't know how to write research papers, for example. Then I took a lower division seminar and the lightbulb went on... that's what I wanted to do. From that point forward, I kicked major behind... one year I actually had no grade lower than an A- for any quarter. Because of a couple of B+ here and there, I ended up with a 3.64 in major, 3.7 in the last 60 units.. even though I graduated with a 3.1, thanks to the F that I could never have removed. I also wrote an honors thesis.

I;m a non-traditional student; I took a decade off, and have been teaching. With a very high GRE, and with recent letters of rec from professors I worked with 11 years ago, I could get into a fairly competitive Ph.D. program but I want the best. So I'm just going to get into a terminal MA program, do a master's thesis, get a very high GPA (hopefully a 4), and with letters of rec I should be competitive to go just about anywhere. I highly doubt that admissions people are going to look at an F in multivariable integral calc right before an obvious switch as an undergrad, ignore the rest of what I've done since, and say... "nope, not good enough. Failed a calc class and couldn't pass it the second time. Off with her head!" In fact, UCLA told me not to worry about that.

So.. my advice is, work your BUTT off to get As in the rest of your history classes. DO a thesis and complete it no matter what... even if you need to take an extension. Choose a field where you already know the language, or start taking that language NOW. Your final GPA will not be great... but it will be better than mine. Get into a good MA program where you can be near or at the top of the class, write an excellent thesis, get published. You will then be able to get that Ph.D. that your advisor says is out of your league.

Yeah, it will take work. But you CAN do it.

I am not at the University of Southern California lol... But I have a cousin who goes to UCLA who says the competition is intense between UCLA and USC. Apparently they (the undergrads of USC) placed red soap in a fountain before a fated match up in football?

But your advice and story is so very inspiring! Being able to get back on your feet, and just doing it! I do plan on working my butt off! Seriously right now I am looking into the best ways for making up for my first two years at the university. I'm not only going to focus on raising my grades, but hopefully TA for a teacher, do some internships at museums (hopefully at the Smithsonian) and what not. Its just hard as an undergrad in this job market, where everyday you hear about the perils of doing a degree not related to business or the sciences. Literally on yahoo (not the most credible source, I know) every other few days there's an article about the worst paying degrees, best paying degrees, careers with the worst prospects, careers with the best prospects, etc., and I'm just like, GAAAAAAH. I'm just glad my parents don't see these articles, otherwise they would seriously put their feet down with my current carrer choice .

But thank you again for your story. It makes me feel better that I am not at a complete loss .