MA before PhD? Skipping MA? Ahh!

[noodles.galaznik]

I've been talking to some profs, and I was originally going to go for an MA, but they've been trying to talk me into applying directly to the PhD program. I was just wondering what folks who had gotten an MA before getting a PhD had to say on the matter. Are you happy with the way you did things, or not? Why?

Sound off!!

[fuzzylogician]

Well, if you get an MA before your PhD you'll have more experience; you'll be more targeted when you start your PhD because you'll know your field better than you did with just an undergrad education; will have a better idea of your interests; you'll have at least some experience doing graduate-level research; all of which mean that you should have an easier time in your PhD classes and you should be able to start developing a research program faster than inexperienced students--which means more time to deepen your research while in grad school. On the practical side, an MA training should result in your ability to write a stronger SOP, obtain better LORs and hence have a chance to apply to better fitting, higher ranked schools and be more competitive for funding. On the other hand it'll take you longer to complete your training than if you just got a PhD directly after undergrad; it'll cost you more; and you may have to repeat the courses if your new school doesn't transfer credits. Maybe you're focused enough to know already what you want to study and what schools fit your interests, and have good enough LORs right now so that you don't need the extra benefits of having an MA. Otherwise I think the main advantage of an MA is the experience you can gain from it and the potential of using it to produce a better PhD application. During the PhD program itself your inner drive and your ability to focus will be much more important than the extra two years of training, in my opinion, so if you're focused and able, my vote is to try for the PhD directly. [although I did do an MA first--which I don't regret at all, it got into my dream program. My interests haven't changed (broadly speaking) between undergrad and my PhD program but the MA gave me the opportunity to do exactly what I described - meet influential people and get good LORs, get some research experience, get some teaching experience, get published, and write a stronger and much more focused SOP than I ever could before I started the MA. I also think the experience made my life in my PhD program much easier than some of my colleagues who came with less experience, at least in the first year]

[noodles.galaznik]

Thanks so much, that really helped a lot! You've made a lot of really good points, so I've got plenty to think about. If I want to get my graduate degrees from the same school, is it possible to apply for an MA and then just continue on there after you finish that and get your PhD from the same program? I'm so lost, so I have a ton of questions!

[mechengr2000]

Thanks so much, that really helped a lot! You've made a lot of really good points, so I've got plenty to think about. If I want to get my graduate degrees from the same school, is it possible to apply for an MA and then just continue on there after you finish that and get your PhD from the same program? I'm so lost, so I have a ton of questions!

That depends on the program. You should find out for this program and let us know - that has a strong influence on what my advice will be.

[runonsentence]

I agree with everything fuzzylogician said. My MA actually helped draw me toward my new subfield in English, and I know now, looking back, that I was NOT ready for a PhD when I first started applying to graduate school. I'm really glad I did an MA.

Thanks so much, that really helped a lot! You've made a lot of really good points, so I've got plenty to think about. If I want to get my graduate degrees from the same school, is it possible to apply for an MA and then just continue on there after you finish that and get your PhD from the same program? I'm so lost, so I have a ton of questions!

This depends; some programs are set up so that the ideal applicant is a bachelor's degree holder who's looking to complete a PhD with a master's degree "on the way." In my field, however, such programs (e.g., Ohio State, Penn State and UNC Chapel-Hill, though the last is phasing this out) are more competitive.

It's also possible at some programs to complete a terminal MA and reapply for the PhD (which is what I did, though I was also applying elsewhere and weighing other options); you'll find a range of opinions on whether or not this is a good idea. I ended up doing it and it was the right decision for me, but it also has its cons.

What field are you in?

Edited July 21, 2011 by runonsentence

[noodles.galaznik]

That depends on the program. You should find out for this program and let us know - that has a strong influence on what my advice will be.

I talked to my POI, and she told me that it is possible to transition right into the PhD program there right after getting an MA, but it isn't guaranteed.

Runonsentence: I'm in anthro.

Thanks everyone!

[jblsmith]

I got an MA before applying to PhDs and I was very pleased with my decision for a number of reasons.

1. Coming out of my undergrad I wasn't really sure if I wanted to do a PhD. The MA gave me time to consider it. It also gave me a better indication of my true abilities.

2. I got my BA in Econ and Poli Sci at a small, private, liberal arts college and PhD adcomms were not likely to recognize the program or the people writing my LoRs. By going to a public research university for my MA it gave me the name recognition I needed.

3. Economics is quite rigorous and because I double majored in Econ/Poli Sci I knew I needed more formal math training. I took a number of 300-400 level math classes in undergrad but I still wanted a stronger background. The MA gave me the rigor I needed.

4. Allowed me another opportunity to do research. I did an honors thesis for my BA but the more research the better.

5. I rocked my MA classes so the transcripts helped my PhD applications.

6. What's another 2 years of school on top of 21?

Hope this helps!

[rising_star]

I think doing a separate MA is less common in anthro, probably due to funding reasons. Most people I know in anthropology have earned their MA en route to earning their PhD, staying at the same university and often with the same advisor.

[Business2Biology]

Just joined the forum, but had to jump on this post as it is one of my big worries right now! I am looking to graduate work in Biology, but definitely don't feel that I have the breadth of exposure to be able to write any sort of SOP that is meaningful! But my situation is... complicated:

- BS in Business (finance & international business), class of 1991 and poop GPA

+ 12 years of corporate machine (finance and information technology), leading to senior management position

-/+ ... leading to "dropping out" and insert more years of interesting life experiences here

+ 2 1/2 years of (surprisingly) rigorous junior college "core" science classes and 4.0 GPA

+ Very good general GRE and Bio subject GRE scores and, I know, glowing LORs just waiting to be written

- Only 1 summer session quarter of research experience

So, I am 43 years old and just want to GET ON WITH IT! I don't like the idea of another 2 years "gone" to pursuing a masters, but maybe that is what I really need to consider?

Sorry if this is scattered - I really don't know how to move forward on these questions. Any help or advice appreciated (and perhaps I'll try to pull together a slightly more cogent post of my own, rather than jumping on noodles' tailcoat!)

Jenni

[noodles.galaznik]

I think doing a separate MA is less common in anthro, probably due to funding reasons. Most people I know in anthropology have earned their MA en route to earning their PhD, staying at the same university and often with the same advisor.

When I asked my POI about this, she said that it doesn't make much sense to pick up an MA along the way, just because of funding reasons--in this particular department, doctoral students can only receive departmental funding for 5 years, so tacking on an MA would probably push it over 5 years.

Thanks for the advice everyone, there have been a lot of really great points made and I have a lot to consider. It seems like right now, an MA would be the best thing for me to do!

[Scecy]

I am a little confused. I have seen information on website for PhD programs (in Classics) that say "Students may also apply directly to the Ph.D. program, in which case the M.A. is awarded upon completion of the requirements; if a student enters the Ph.D. program with an M.A. in Classics, blanket credit of 32 points is awarded." So how does getting an MA first add more years to the total?

On the other hand, if you have only a BA when you apply to such a PhD program are you competing with all those people who already have their masters? I don't see how anyone with just a BA would have as much experience and knowledge and look as good as those with a masters, so I wonder if it is actually possible to get admitted to a PhD program with just a BA. Has anyone done that?

[fuzzylogician]

I am a little confused. I have seen information on website for PhD programs (in Classics) that say "Students may also apply directly to the Ph.D. program, in which case the M.A. is awarded upon completion of the requirements; if a student enters the Ph.D. program with an M.A. in Classics, blanket credit of 32 points is awarded." So how does getting an MA first add more years to the total?

Students with an MA have to take less classes than those without one. That must save some time, but how much exactly depends on the program. Someone there should be able to tell you what kind of time the MA saves, in general. I'd guess it's about 1-2 years, which means that it's still probably faster to go straight for the PhD without getting an MA, if possible (time-wise, at least).

On the other hand, if you have only a BA when you apply to such a PhD program are you competing with all those people who already have their masters? I don't see how anyone with just a BA would have as much experience and knowledge and look as good as those with a masters, so I wonder if it is actually possible to get admitted to a PhD program with just a BA. Has anyone done that?

Candidates with an MA will generally be more attractive than ones without an MA for the reasons of knowledge and experience that you mention; the added focus that the MA contributes can help candidates produce a stronger SOP, LORs and writing sample, all of which are normally hard to come by just after undergrad. Since everyone is competing for the same spots, yes, it's more difficult to be admitted straight out of undergrad than after an MA, but I'm sure it's not impossible or the program wouldn't bother outlining the requirements for such students.

Edited August 9, 2011 by fuzzylogician