Can I get into a top History PhD program?

[SecondBlackPrez]

Hello,

I am an African-American male and recent graduate from a well-respected school and I am applying this fall to History PhD programs! I majored in History related fields, completed theses on historical topics, took a few history courses, but I did not formally major in History. I have over a 3.8 in my majors and over a 3.6 overall GPA. I recently took the GRE and received a 620V and 670Q. I really want to attend either Harvard, Yale, Columbia or Princeton to study 19th U.S. history, more specifically during the Civil War era. I am interested in the way the Civil War impacted the African American woman's citizenship rights.

At Princeton, I really want to work with Tera Hunter. At Harvard, I really want to work with Annette Gordon-Reed/Higginbotham, At Yale, Edward Rugemer. At Columbia, Eric Foner.

Please give me some feedback!!!! Thanks

Edited July 26, 2011 by SecondBlackPrez

[maeisenb]

Well if you have people who are going to write good recs for you in history and you can show that you have a good SOP then you have the grades and GRE at least. Just comes down to a crap shoot at that point really.

[Sigaba]

Why do your gender and your ethnicity figure so prominently in your description of yourself and your goals?

[llburton]

I'm not sure if Foner is still taking students...

[ZeeMore21]

I would say that although your grades and GRE are definitely great, I wouldn't bank on them solely to get you into a doctoral program. I would concentrate on writing a very strong personal statement and writing sample.

Sigaba, I see no reason for your comment, the OP can define himself in however way he wants to.

[ZeeMore21]

Hello,

I am an African-American male and recent graduate from a well-respected school and I am applying this fall to History PhD programs! I majored in History related fields, completed theses on historical topics, took a few history courses, but I did not formally major in History. I have over a 3.8 in my majors and over a 3.6 overall GPA. I recently took the GRE and received a 620V and 670Q. I really want to attend either Harvard, Yale, Columbia or Princeton to study 19th U.S. history, more specifically during the Civil War era. I am interested in the way the Civil War impacted the African American woman's citizenship rights.

At Princeton, I really want to work with Tera Hunter. At Harvard, I really want to work with Annette Gordon-Reed/Higginbotham, At Yale, Edward Rugemer. At Columbia, Eric Foner.

Please give me some feedback!!!! Thanks

Love your topic by the way, sounds excellent. Wish you luck on your admissions process.

[Sigaba]

Sigaba, when I read your comment closely, why are you questioning what the OP is studying because of his race? I think you should remove your comment, just for your sake.

ZeeMore21--

You have misread my post. It will remain as written.

I did not question his field of study. I questioned the purpose of his decision to identify himself first in terms of his gender and his race.

Hello,

I am an African-American male and recent graduate from a well-respected school and I am applying this fall to History PhD programs!

His introduction as written implies that he thinks his skin color and plumbing are more important to his candidacy than what he's done as a history major, and what he wants to do as a graduate student.

The purpose of my question is to provide SBP an opportunity to consider the efficacy of this approach.

As for your closing remark "just for your sake," you might have gotten more traction had you written "for my own sake" or omitted it altogether.

[Safferz]

Sigaba, when I read your comment closely, why are you questioning what the OP is studying because of his race? I think you should remove your comment, just for your sake.

I gave the first negative vote to Sigaba's post. Not only is it irrelevant and inaccurate (how exactly does gender and ethnicity figure prominently in his description, when he only used two such terms in the entire post?), but I sensed that it was directing the thread towards a debate about race and admissions policies like affirmative action.

[Safferz]

His introduction as written implies that he thinks his skin color and plumbing are more important to his candidacy than what he's done as a history major, and what he wants to do as a graduate student.

Bingo!

[ZeeMore21]

I gave the first negative vote to Sigaba's post. Not only is it irrelevant and inaccurate (how exactly does gender and ethnicity figure prominently in his description, when he only used two such terms in the entire post?), but I sensed that it was directing the thread towards a debate about race and admissions policies like affirmative action.

Definitely, and I am not going to go there if that was the intention of the said post. The OP was simply asking for advice...I'm assuming he gave gender and race as just another piece of information on top of his qualifications. It was a simple introduction.

Again, I don't really understand what the point of that post was. Sigaba, if you want to expand upon your statement you could, I am honestly just confused. If I did misinterpret what you message was, I do apologize. I suggested that you might want to take your post down because regardless of what you intended to say, you are hitting the wrong note. I'm assuming this given that multiple people are voting you down. I honestly don't understand what you meant by saying that there would be more traction if I had said "for my own sake."

I think it is important to recognize that everyone identifies themselves differently. There really is no need, in my opinion, to question why someone identifies himself or herself the way they do. It really is their personal choice.

Edited July 27, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[ZeeMore21]

I forgot to say, to secondblackprez: if you need anyone to review your personal statement let me know! I would be happy to help. I specialize in African American cultural studies so your topic is very interesting to me. Also as an aside, nice to see another student of color deciding to enter academia!

[KTLady]

@ SecondBlackPrez: Check the schools' websites. They often state that applicants with related degrees and sufficient history coursework are also welcome to apply. You may, however, need to take a few more course first. It depends on the individual program, so you'll need to check.

Even 4.0s with 1600s and degrees in history aren't guaranteed acceptance to their first-choice, top-ranked schools. "Can I make it into a top program?" and "Will I make it into a top program?" are two very different questions. Sounds like you definitely have a shot, so certainly apply!!!

But if you're unwilling to attend a lesser-known school, you should reconsider your reasons for history grad school.

@ others: ...and being African American and male doesn't make the OP any more or less qualified than anyone else in the field. Fine as a way of identifying oneself, but not a qualification. I think that's what Sigiba is saying, so... yeah....there kinda was a reason for the comment.

[ZeeMore21]

@ SecondBlackPrez: Check the schools' websites. They often state that applicants with related degrees and sufficient history coursework are also welcome to apply. You may, however, need to take a few more course first. It depends on the individual program, so you'll need to check.

Even 4.0s with 1600s and degrees in history aren't guaranteed acceptance to their first-choice, top-ranked schools. "Can I make it into a top program?" and "Will I make it into a top program?" are two very different questions. Sounds like you definitely have a shot, so certainly apply!!!

But if you're unwilling to attend a lesser-known school, you should reconsider your reasons for history grad school.

@ others: ...and being African American and male doesn't make the OP any more or less qualified than anyone else in the field. Fine as a way of identifying oneself, but not a qualification. I think that's what Sigiba is saying, so... yeah....there kinda was a reason for the comment.

I don't know why anyone would assume the OP meant to use his race or gender as a qualification...I'm sure that wasn't the OP's intention. Perhaps anytime we do come across someone who mentions his/her race, we shouldn't automatically assume that the person is trying to use it in any other way than as a way to identify himself/herself. Even if Sigiba had a reason behind the comment, I do think, in my opinion, that he or she could have posed it in a much different way. The post comes off very accusatory and the tone is off-putting. But generally, I think the comment is uncalled for given the main reason why the OP opened this thread.

I myself am black, and it is part of my identity...I actually did include this in my application because my research did revolve to a certain extend around my experiences as a woman of color. So again, I'm just pointing out that one shouldn't automatically assume that someone is trying to use their identity as an unfair advantage.

Edited July 27, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[qbtacoma]

Yes, Sigaba's tone is inappropriately hostile, and if people want a thread on identity politics then they should go start one elsewhere. I mean really. The first sentence of the OP was background information, not strictly necessary to his question (but almost everyone does this) and similar to other commonly shared, generally irrelevant information like "I went to a small liberal arts college" or "I grew up in China" or "I'm queer." I can't believe people are upset by the mere mention of someone's personal identity.

(ETA: "Irrelevant" in the sense that the OP's academic record is the measure by which adcomms will admit him and it is also the main thing we are assessing here. Obviously his identity isn't irrelevant to him as a person.)

OP, your writing is what is really going to make you stand out more than your stats, which are of course very good. Polish your writing sample and your SOP until you never want to look at them again. The key with doing this successfully is starting early so that you have plenty of time for rewriting. One thing I think most people would do differently (including me) is that we would all start the application process earlier. That's my best general advice, but definitely poke around Grad Cafe - lots of pearls of wisdom are scattered around.

Edited July 27, 2011 by qbtacoma

[SecondBlackPrez]

Thank you everyone for the advice!!!! I introduced myself the way I did because I wanted to show my connection to the research I was doing. I'm sorry for igniting a race debate, that was not my intention. I will PM some of you in the near future about more specific advice!!!!! THX!!!!!!

[ZeeMore21]

Thank you everyone for the advice!!!! I introduced myself the way I did because I wanted to show my connection to the research I was doing. I'm sorry for igniting a race debate, that was not my intention. I will PM some of you in the near future about more specific advice!!!!! THX!!!!!!

Don't apologize for anything secondblackprez, most of us knew want your intentions were. Again, you have the right to identify yourself on this forum any way you want to.

Edited July 27, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[CageFree]

Thank you everyone for the advice!!!! I introduced myself the way I did because I wanted to show my connection to the research I was doing. I'm sorry for igniting a race debate, that was not my intention. I will PM some of you in the near future about more specific advice!!!!! THX!!!!!!

Look, some thought the response was inappropriate, some just focused on what you were asking (myself included). You did not ignite any racial debate... please feel free to ask questions.

For what it's worth, if being African-American is a part of your identity, then that's just so. Being Argentinian AND American is my identity and you bet it shapes my research interests! I certainly plan to to mention this as part of the reason why my topic interests me so much... the events I want to research feature prominently in my family history and into my own life. I didn't just arrive to that idea out of the blue.

Identity is about how you see yourself and what your own experience and relationship is to the world.

[ZeeMore21]

Look, some thought the response was inappropriate, some just focused on what you were asking (myself included). You did not ignite any racial debate... please feel free to ask questions.

For what it's worth, if being African-American is a part of your identity, then that's just so. Being Argentinian AND American is my identity and you bet it shapes my research interests! I certainly plan to to mention this as part of the reason why my topic interests me so much... the events I want to research feature prominently in my family history and into my own life. I didn't just arrive to that idea out of the blue.

Identity is about how you see yourself and what your own experience and relationship is to the world.

Great post. It does seem that as soon as someone mentions their heritage/race people automatically get offensive, as though this is something that has to be hidden. Like it or not, we all come from different backgrounds. This is something that should be embraced, not ignored.

Edited July 28, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[maeisenb]

Identity is about how you see yourself and what your own experience and relationship is to the world.

While, I won't get into the fight above, I would like to point out that identity is not solely self selecting, since you are bounded by specific inherent backgrounds and a group also has to accept your identity. Just a thought on identity is all

Also, I'm always in favor of explaining why you came to the decision you came to in the area that you want to study. Personalizing it always tends to help and makes you up front and honest about your goals.

[natsteel]

I'm not sure if Foner is still taking students...

Indeed, I met with Foner back in December and he is not taking students anymore as he plans to retire within the next 2-3 years.

Also, I may be mistaken, but I don't believe Gordon-Reed is in full residency at Harvard as she also holds positions at New York Law School and Rutgers. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean she's not taking students but I believe she is at Harvard Law School... definitely not in the History Department.

I met Rugemer as well in February and he seemed like a nice enough guy. Though his work has largely been on the role of the Caribbean in the Civil War not gender.

This is what people mean by "fit." You don't have to find someone who does exactly what you want to do, but there should be more of a connection than just time period.

[SecondBlackPrez]

I contacted Gordon-Reed and she told me I could mention her as a POI. I am really hoping her or Higginbotham are receptive of me because Harvard's History Dept. seems like a great fit for me with Gordon-Reed, Higginbotham, Walter Johnson, and President Faust

[StrangeLight]

others can advise you on specific people to work with much better than i can, because this is outside my field, but i'll throw this out there for anyone:

i am not sure how wise it is to mention personal details or life history as a motivation for subject of study in your SOP. i'm not saying it's bad, i'm saying i'm definitely not sure if it's a positive or a negative. some professors and programs probably like to see some sort of personal connection between the applicant and the topic, but in my limited experience in grad school (two years in), saying "this is important to me because it's part of my family history" is usually taken as a negative in an SOP. not because we shouldn't or can't have those personal connections, but because it seems unprofessional and less serious than "i hope to contribute to and alter this historiographical debate."

i've seen far more applications crash and burn on the "this is my personal history" SOPs than i've seen succeed. that's not to say you can't mention it in an SOP or that it's a death knell, but... i think the more cautious approach is to include that sort of information in private conversations with PAs and to leave it out of the SOP itself. just my two cents on that.

as far as the OP identifying himself, i took sigaba's comment to mean that it was interesting that the OP chose to identify himself at all. those details don't change any of the advice or the shape of his project or his desired academic aims. at the same time, most of these threads are filled with superfluous information. to the OP in particular, there are probably university fellowships reserved for minority applicants (i know this is the case in my own program) so i think mentioning race and/or gender should occur somewhere in your application so that you're eligible for these, but i would strongly avoid including this information in your SOP. you can study the impact of the civil war on black women's rights while being black, white, male, female, etc. my sense is, again from my own limited experience, that adcoms will react to the inclusion of this material in your SOP more like sigaba did ("why is this information relevant?") than how many others have.

so... in sum... any personal or identity-related connections to anyone's topic are valid and legitimate and probably worth mentioning in an informal setting, but i'd strongly discourage including any of this information in an SOP.

[SecondBlackPrez]

Ok. Thanks for the insight!

[ZeeMore21]

others can advise you on specific people to work with much better than i can, because this is outside my field, but i'll throw this out there for anyone:

i am not sure how wise it is to mention personal details or life history as a motivation for subject of study in your SOP. i'm not saying it's bad, i'm saying i'm definitely not sure if it's a positive or a negative. some professors and programs probably like to see some sort of personal connection between the applicant and the topic, but in my limited experience in grad school (two years in), saying "this is important to me because it's part of my family history" is usually taken as a negative in an SOP. not because we shouldn't or can't have those personal connections, but because it seems unprofessional and less serious than "i hope to contribute to and alter this historiographical debate."

i've seen far more applications crash and burn on the "this is my personal history" SOPs than i've seen succeed. that's not to say you can't mention it in an SOP or that it's a death knell, but... i think the more cautious approach is to include that sort of information in private conversations with PAs and to leave it out of the SOP itself. just my two cents on that.

as far as the OP identifying himself, i took sigaba's comment to mean that it was interesting that the OP chose to identify himself at all. those details don't change any of the advice or the shape of his project or his desired academic aims. at the same time, most of these threads are filled with superfluous information. to the OP in particular, there are probably university fellowships reserved for minority applicants (i know this is the case in my own program) so i think mentioning race and/or gender should occur somewhere in your application so that you're eligible for these, but i would strongly avoid including this information in your SOP. you can study the impact of the civil war on black women's rights while being black, white, male, female, etc. my sense is, again from my own limited experience, that adcoms will react to the inclusion of this material in your SOP more like sigaba did ("why is this information relevant?") than how many others have.

so... in sum... any personal or identity-related connections to anyone's topic are valid and legitimate and probably worth mentioning in an informal setting, but i'd strongly discourage including any of this information in an SOP.

I guess this is all on a case by case basis. Personally, I don't think that addressing one's identity or background should only be constricted to "informal settings"...I don't really think that there really has to be this binary of formal/informal...and I don't know how helpful this binary is to begin with. Perhaps you could elaborate on that Strangelight. I actually did include my identity in the opening of my personal statement, because it was important enough to be there. I am a child of West African immigrants, and this background definitely led to my interest in black migration studies. I initially was too embarrassed to include my background in my personal statement, but my adviser actually encouraged me to include it. My identity actually has been a significant part in my intellectual development and academic growth, so I definitely think it was wise and helpful to include it in my personal statement. Given that I had a fairly successful application season this year, I don't think including my identity in my statement was negative.

[ZeeMore21]

And also...I doubt that if the OP did decide to include his background in a personal statement that he would start his personal statement the way he started his original post. There are ways to discuss your background creatively and intellectually in your personal statement, where you are drawing interesting connections between your background and your research interests.

And Strangelight, I definitely do understand what you are trying to say...I just think that Sigaba came off very rude. Race and gender actually took up one short line in the OP's initial post...there was no reason to accuse the OP of filling up his entire post with his identity. That clearly isn't true. If Sigaba was actually curious about why the OP introduced himself the way he did, there could have been a non-accusatory way of asking a question...and I am sure the OP could have provided an explanation if he wanted to.

Edited August 2, 2011 by ZeeMore21