I Need Help! Please!

[wishingstar]

I don't know if this is allowed in the forum. I posted this under the GRE section first before I realized there was a section for political science. I am a newbie to this site...But nonetheless I hope someone can give me some advice! I am really panicking right now...

Hi Everyone.

This is my first time posting a topic in the forum.

I am very much in the panic mode right now since I received my GRE scores back yesterday.

I got a V: 520 Q:720 which I obviously knew after I took the darn exam. But my writing score came in and I got a 4...

I was beyond devastated and shocked because I always considered myself a good writer. And i have always been praised by my professors on my papers written throughout college. Although I always knew that I am not a good standardized test taker but I actually prepped for it for about 5 weeks and never gotten below a 650 on verbal and 760 on quant. All in all, I am EXTREMELY bummed about my GRE scores.

Anyways, I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on whether or not i should retake it.

Background: I am currently a rising fourth year at a top 10 university in the US double majoring in economics and political science with a cumulative GPA of 3.5 (with major GPAs higher than that.) I have been doing research with one of the leading professors in the field of political science since the beginning of my second year. I've also had numerous other research experience in the past (mostly in high school) but it's biology not the social sciences. And I'm currently conducting my own research for my BA Thesis in the political science area. I've also had study abroad experience in the area of concentration that i'm interested in applying for grad school. I've also had intern experiences in both the finance and media sectors.

My top choice would be a political science PhD program preferably in a top 20 school. (Princeton, Yale, Uchicago, Berkeley, Michigan, MIT, Stanford, UC Davis, UC Irvine, Rochester, UPENN, etc.) I'm also considering MPA at preferably top 10 places.

Any advice would VERY VERY MUCH appreciated! Thank you so much in advance!!!

Edited August 2, 2011 by wishingstar

[Penelope Higgins]

First, nobody on admissions committees looks at the writing score of the GRE. Your scores alone are probably not competitive for top-20 PhD programs, but that's because of the Q and V scores. You've got lots of time to retake the exam before applications are due, so that should be easy to fix. And it sounds like you have research experience (though I would not mention the high school experience in any detail in your application) and potentially strong letters, including one from someone whose opinions I would take seriously were your file to land on my desk.

But I wonder how carefully you've constructed your list of schools. Unless there is something I'm missing (which is certainly possible!) the schools you list have nothing in common in terms of ranking overall or in any specialization I can think of in the field of political science. This suggests you've got some work to do in refining your list of departments to apply to - and my sense is that this and the GRE retake should be your focus in the next 4-6 months as applications come due.

[wishingstar]

Hi Penelope, thank you so much for the response!

Regarding to the schools, I just listed some of the potential ones i might be applying to, however, yes, i haven't looked into the faculty and area of research yet so this is just a list i threw up here so people have an idea of some of the schools i potentially want to apply to. sorry for the confusion!

I guess I am just worried that I would perform around the same level if I retake it again.

I was wondering: does anyone know circumstances where gre scores were about my level potentially slightly better (which I hope i can improve when i take it again) but everything else was stellar and able to balance of the application? I guess i'm just searching for some comfort here...*sigh*

[YAGSA]

For the GRE, just retake it. Almost everyone does better (and some much better) the second time around. However, I think you cannot take the old GRE anymore, if that's what you took, so you'll be in sort of new territory there. Even then, your scores are too low for the kind of schools you want to apply to so you probably don't have much to lose by retaking it.

As for the schools, it seems like you just decided to list the top undergraduate schools (except Harvard because naming number 1 would sound like too much?) without much regard for the strengths of their programs and their compatibility with your research interests, which doesn't give out good signals in your favor as a PhD applicant, almost as if you're thinking of getting a PhD in political science on a whim.

Like Penelope said, these are the things that you should be working on from now.

[IRdreams]

See I really disagree with the advice that has been given here about applying to top 20. When I decided to apply to graduate school, I knew I wanted to work in IR and thought I wanted to work on interventions. Professors told me just apply to all the top programs and see where they let you in. Their reasoning: the job market is rather bleak when you start contemplating school 25 and below. Also, grad admission tends to be a bit capricious so you aren't sure where you'll get lucky.

Another reason which I've since come to believe: class work in graduate school can be transformative; there is little guarantee that what you go in substantively interested in you will still want to work on 6mo later. This is especially true since most undergraduate polisci courses are not focused on the sorts of questions future academics ask, therefore assuming that the questions you find compelling will not change as you transition from undergrad to grad might not be justified. One of the ironies of grad school is that this type of transformation can even occur when you get in to a school you thought was a perfect fit. I wound up at a very qualitative school but am now most interested in EITM research. Maybe this reflects a lack of research on my part, but I suspect not as I have heard this story from many students and faculty a like. Graduate school has a professionalization component because it is hard to figure out on your own the full outline of the field and how to best maximize your place within it. This suggests that while research might mitigate some aspects, the fact that we need to be taught how to be professional political scientists and not just substantive issues implies getting the tenor of the field as an undergrad would be quite difficult on average.

Now, I probably would tailor your list to be a top 15 subfield specific, but I wouldn't trim much beyond that.

[Penelope Higgins]

I actually agree with much of what the previous poster wrote. My point was that the list of schools seemed completely random to me. It is neither a list of top schools (Irvine? Penn? Davis?) nor a list of schools strong in a particular area (unless, for example, Chicago and Rochester have something in common I can't think of), and this suggested to me that the original poster had not yet put enough thought into the application process.

[wishingstar]

thank you for everyone who replied!

i understand what most of you are saying about schools i listed and i do know some of them are ranked lower than top 20 and some are not related in their field of concentration etc. anyhow i am still in the research process for which schools to apply for. thank you very much for all the inputs!

[danmark]

For the GRE, just retake it. Almost everyone does better (and some much better) the second time around. However, I think you cannot take the old GRE anymore, if that's what you took, so you'll be in sort of new territory there. Even then, your scores are too low for the kind of schools you want to apply to so you probably don't have much to lose by retaking it.

As for the schools, it seems like you just decided to list the top undergraduate schools (except Harvard because naming number 1 would sound like too much?) without much regard for the strengths of their programs and their compatibility with your research interests, which doesn't give out good signals in your favor as a PhD applicant, almost as if you're thinking of getting a PhD in political science on a whim.

Like Penelope said, these are the things that you should be working on from now.

Is that true that writing score is unimportatnt in the PhD application? I will attend the MAO program in polisci at Columbia with GRE score: Verbal 640(92%), Quantitative 800(94%) and AW 3.5 (rather low..). I plan to apply for the PhD in the coming year and do you think I need to retake the GRE? Thanks!

[Penelope Higgins]

Having served on admissions in poli sci programs at 2 universities, I can honestly say that I've never seen the writing score matter. It can't save an application from a bad personal statement and writing sample, and it won't sink a good one. After all, we can read your work quickly rather than relying on some weird exam. In fact, at my current department, our admissions spreadsheet doesn't even include a column for the writing score.

[foosh]

I actually agree with much of what the previous poster wrote. My point was that the list of schools seemed completely random to me. It is neither a list of top schools (Irvine? Penn? Davis?) nor a list of schools strong in a particular area (unless, for example, Chicago and Rochester have something in common I can't think of), and this suggested to me that the original poster had not yet put enough thought into the application process.

UC Davis is top 20 for American Politics and top 25 overall...given that the OP specified a top 20 school, it seems perfectly reasonable to include it on the list.

[Zahar Berkut]

Yes, retake the GRE. Worst case scenario, there's always the following year to apply to programs. I also strongly recommend discussing your situation with the professor you do research for, least of all for advice on what programs to apply to based on your research interests.

On a side note, the fact that you are thinking of applying to public policy schools in addition to PhD programs makes me think you are not totally sure about going down that path. Do you want to be a professor? If not, you are probably much better off applying to a professional school. While you can take the PhD in whatever direction you want after you get it, the time you spend working toward it and not earning a real salary could have been used to advance yourself professionally.