I'm a lawyer, don't like it

[JimboNo9]

So I went to law school and did really well, second in my class, law review, set the curve in a bunch of classes, big law job, six figure salary etc. Scholarship in law school, so virtually no student loan debt.

The only problem is that I kind of hate being a lawyer. I'm good at it and continue to do well, I just hate it. Pretty much all the time. Recently some changes in my life and the death of a few loved ones have made me reconsider my career options. Despite going to law school, my passion has always been history. I was a History/Political Science Double Major in undergrad (4.0 History GPA, 3.53 overall) and have been more or less obsessed with history since the third grade. I went to law school for the money, and frankly if I hadn't done so well I probably would have dropped out because I hated it. No one tells you to drop out when you're first in your class though (dropped to second my last semester- one bad test...not that I'm bitter).

I guess my question is if I go off and do the History PHD thing, will my previous career/education hurt me, help me, or will no one care? Also, as I've been out of school for three years, will dated law school professor references do the trick? Not sure many of my history professors would still remember my name six years out. Finally, is this a really bad idea in general? It's cool if you think so.

[CageFree]

Hi!

I'm just starting my applications right now so I just have a few things to point out.

I know someone (a colleague of mine) who had a similar story, and decided to teach, pretty much for the same reasons. So know you're not on your own.

The fact that you graduated near the top of your class will no doubt be very helpful - it wouldn't be detrimental to your application. As for your letters, I'd get a mix of both. If you were an outstanding student back as an undergrad, there should be at least one or two professors that remember you. Did you write a thesis? If so, your thesis advisors most definitely should. I have been out of school since 2000, and wrote back last year to ask for letters from two professors. Not only did they remember me, one of them wrote me a letter within 15 days (last year) and it was a page and a half long. The other one I've been in contact with and she hasn't written it yet but she's been giving me a lot of advice - she was my thesis chair, and has already said she will write me one as well.

So... don't underestimate yourself nor your ability to get letters of rec. I'd say one or two from undergrad to attest to your work in History, and then one from law school, should do the trick.

[goldielocks]

Welcome to the boards!

I agree with Teacher4PhD on all counts. I think many applicants forget that professional experience, or interesting backgrounds are not always detrimental to their chances of admission. Like you said, you received excellent marks, and graduated near the top of your law school class. You have a unique set of experiences that would probably lend themselves well to the study of History. For example, if you focus on US politics or constitutional policy, you have a big leg up on newbies to the field! What is your area of specialization? That's important to sort out before applying.

I'm sure you've read up on the realities of pursuing a career in academia right now, especially in the humanities, so I won't go there. But the financial realities are certainly worth serious consideration, given the drastic reduction in your income that you'd be taking.

I've talked with a few lawyers who decided they hated their jobs, and moved on toward a different career. They've all told me it was the right decision for them.

Best of luck!

[JimboNo9]

Thanks for the good advice. Didn't write a history thesis in undergrad, I was in the honors college but my thesis was primarily concerned with my other major. The history major was a last-minute addition once I realized I could either graduate a year early or get a second major and graduate a semester early, always liked history more, just went Poli Sci initially because I thought it'd be better for pre-law (which is actually completely wrong).

Longest history research paper was probably about 25 pages or so. I have written/co-authored a few law review articles, but those would be just cruel to force anyone to read. I could probably find at least one of my old history professors to write a letter, several of them did for my law school applications back in the day, but I'm a very different person and student than I was when I was 21-22. Did that worry you at all? Also, can you read your LORs? Can't with law school apps.

The money thing is a concern, I have some savings, but I would definitely foresee some downgrading. To hedge my bets and soften the blow, I was planning on continuing to practice law on at least a part time basis wherever I end up (and therefore hoping I can find a school in a state with reciprocity to avoid taking the bar again), and if I can't get a PHD job, I can always still be an unhappy lawyer, although jumping off of my career track at this point would be detrimental in terms of my future earning potential, probably to the order of about 60-70k a year less than I would otherwise make. Anyone's thoughts on working part time while pursuing a PHD? I worked in law school even though the ABA says you're not supposed to and that turned out fine. As a solo litigator, I'd be setting my own hours except for court dates.

My area of specialization would probably be either Late Medieval History (France and England) or early 19th Century American History/Politics. Not consistent, I know, but those were always what I enjoyed much. If I thought the law degree would help significantly, I'd probably focus on American. Any known advantages to either? In terms of languages I can mostly read (not speak) French which i took in college and have a fading command of Latin, both of which I suspect I'd need to improve drastically for a PHD.

[CageFree]

Americanists nowadays are everywhere... it's the most impacted field, from what I understand.

With a PhD you won't have time to work as an attorney.. plus, if you're getting funding, you may not even be allowed to work beyond TA/RA work.

And no, the fact that I've changed doesn't worry me in terms of letters because frankly, I haven't changed THAT much. The characteristics that made me a relatively successful undergrad helped me through my credential, and through the past 7 years of teaching. I have a letter from my current principal that helps with that.

You need to make sure this is something yoU REALLY want to do. From what you've written, I can't tell if you have a real commitment to History or if you're just itching to get out of law and thinking... well, this would be a good alternative.

***

Edited to add: Perhaps a good compromise for you would be to do a part-time M.A. in history while you work. I considered that for about a year... just decided that I want to dive in full-time into studying and not worry about working, even though my income will be reduced by about 40K or so. That might help you see if you really want a career in academia.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Teacher4PhD

[goldielocks]

You need to make sure this is something yoU REALLY want to do. From what you've written, I can't tell if you have a real commitment to History or if you're just itching to get out of law and thinking... well, this would be a good alternative.

At the risk of sounding a little too harsh... this is absolutely true. A PhD in History is not a fallback plan. It is grueling and leads to very few long-term job prospects. The competition is insane. For a good healthy scare, read anything by Benton/Pannapacker:

http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-School-in-the/44846

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Big-Lie-About-the-Life-of/63937/

http://www.slate.com/id/2300107/pagenum/all/#p2

(There have also been some phenomenal responses to his latest article. My favorite is: http://jsench.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/working-classes/ )

But really, and truly... this is not a fallback plan. It is not impossible but it is much harder than many realize. What do you want to do with the degree? Professorships are hard to come by. Maybe that would help me to understand your motives for pursuing a graduate degree in History. What do you want to do with it?

[TMP]

From what you've written, I say, don't do it. If you're so comfortable making $100k+ and are already scared to death of living on $15K+ per year, then don't do it. You'll probably be more miserable as a PhD student than being a lawyer. Right now you can afford to do retail therapy, right? Down the road as a PhD student, it's hard to spend money to make you feel better. You're not going to have time to work as a PT attorney.

Also you're choosing fields that require languages. I gather that you must have some Latin.... but even so if you don't have fluency in any languages, I'd put off your applications for PhD programs for a while until you gain mastery in one or two languages.

[Sigaba]

JimboNo9--

The fact that you made it through law school and are a practicing attorney will help your candidacy because you have a proven track record of hard work.

IMO, having had a class mate who left his law practice to study history, you may balk at some of the hoops you'll have to jump through in grad school. (My pal often wondered why he needed to do coursework in an outside field as he already had a JD.) You may also find the intellectual and cultural transition jarring. And if your politics are right of center, you'll need to figure out how to hold your cards very close to your vest or refine your ability to listen very carefully and to disagree respectfully. (To be clear, my point here is not that the Ivory Tower is intolerant of different political views. Rather, the American political right's ability to communicate with academics with different viewpoints is in very bad decline.)

Insofar as your unhappiness with being a lawyer, my advice mirrors TMP's. It is better to be unhappy with money in the bank than to be unhappy while worrying about being able to afford that book you need versus paying a bill.

I recommend that, before you leave law, you invest time (and money) figuring out the roots of your unhappiness. It may well be that a small lateral step, and/or a change of career trajectory, and/or a long vacation, and/or a leave of absence may prove to be a more sustainable option than going to grad school.

Meanwhile, you could to some reading to get a sense of "the state of the art" in professional academic history in your fields of interest. Such reading may give you an indication of the vast differences between the way undergraduates study history and the way you'll study history as a graduate student. While there are a few books for general audiences that can help you here, you might want to read some densely written monographs, journal articles, and dissertations as those are the types of works you'll spend most of your time with in graduate school.

As for the job market for historians, especially Americanists, it is actually worse than what many here say. That being said, I don't think you should let it shape your decision to go to grad school. You already have a marketable skill set.

[JimboNo9]

Thanks again for all of your prompt responses.

@Teacher4PHD: Thanks for the advice about long-suffering Americanists- my interests have been trending more towards the medieval period for a while, so that actually works. In addition, from the programs I've looked at French and Latin are languages I could use for medieval history, especially in my fields of interest. Good point on the letters, although I'd like to think so, I'm probably not that different than the kid with the 4.0 in History. I went to England for a summer with one, I'll probably use him. As for commitment, I'm more serious than I let on. I thought about a few part time programs that are local, but frankly, with my current job that's impossible as I work 60-80 hours a week.

@Goldielocks: I've read those articles- and you're quite right, which is why I have no intention of giving up my law license. I'm ok with competition, though I'm sure they all are too. Law school was very similar. I'd like to research, write, and possibly teach. My favorite part of undergraduate school was writing history papers, particularly when I could get my hands on primary sources. Even as a lawyer, while going to court is any litigator's favorite thing, for me research is a close second. It's just the subject matter I don't care for. I don't think of history as a fallback plan- I think of my law degree as a fallback plan.

@ticklemepink: The money is a concern, but not a huge one. I never had money before, and I don't expect to miss it very much. In my experience, money just gives you options to upgrade the things you have, and those upgrades don't really buy you much than other people's opinion. For instance, my BMW convertible is, for what I usually use it for, not functionally superior than the 1997 Grand Am I drove before I bought it. Besides, they're both red. The way people respond when you drive up in each is very, very different however. I'm working at the languages again I'm rusty, but it's coming back. Especially the Latin.

@Sigaba: Thanks for the practical advice. I'm actually just finishing up about a three month leave of absence. I took it for personal reasons, but it has afforded me the opportunity to reflect on my priorities, and it seems very clear to me that the law is not one of them. As I said, I'd like to keep my license as even if the history thing works out, I do sometimes enjoy pro bono cases. I thought about pursuing more public interest law job in the future, but I don't really have more passion for that, it's just relatively more enjoyable than saving companies from themselves. One of my favorite past times in college was to read old dissertations, just because they were always so unique. And I still subscribe to academic history journals for pleasure reading. I do think it would help me to narrow in more specific interests however.