After dropping out of a PhD Program with a free MS, should the student continue to get a PhD at another university?

[chaospaladin]

In this thread,

people say that it is unethical to intentionally apply to a PhD program just to have the intention of dropping out with a free MS. But, let's say a student had good faith with good intentions did try to get a PhD, but dropped out with a free MS due to having difficulties completing the project, would most professors give this type of student a positive letter of recommendation to enter a PhD program at another university assuming the student can prove that he only dropped out due to lack of interest in the project even though he was an overall good researcher?

I know every professor is different, but what is the general consensus on this?

[Sigaba]

Please clarify your question.

Are you asking if a student, having proven that he or she would not do the work at the master's level, should expect support to do work as a doctoral candidate at another school?

Or did this student earn a master's degree, then decide not to do the work for a doctorate, drop out, and now wants to have a bite of the apple at another school?

If it is the latter, why cannot this student go back and continue working towards a doctorate at his/her initial institution? Did the student earn PNG/NTR status?

[Sparky]

A legitimate change in research interest/topic is generally considered one of the few good reasons to move from one program to another. Related would be if your advisor gets a job at a different school, leaving you with no backup advisor in your subfield if you remain at your current school. I don't think that's seen as "dropping out" so much as "transferring," though.

Lack of interest in one's research topic with no immediate replacement by another interest, however, would or should trigger major warning alarms on an adcom. How are they expected to believe the applicant won't suddenly "lose interest" in this new topic? I should think the profs writing the LORs would face the same question. "[student] is a solid worker, but seems to lack the dedication necessary to pursue a research project to the next level." (Obviously this does not apply if the "lack of interest" was on the faculty advisor side, in which case, see paragraph #1).

[juilletmercredi]

In general, it is not unethical to drop out of a PhD program with a non-terminal MS and then go to another PhD program. Although I believe that usually, a PhD student would attempt to transfer instead of 'dropping out.'

However, you say "difficulties completing the project," and that raises a red flag:

1. What kind of "difficulties"?

2. Grad school is rarely about one project. It's about a combination of different factors. Usually the research project you are working on is one of many factors, and you will probably work on more than one project at a time.

I would say not necessarily. First of all, despite the beliefs of many undergrads, you don't get to pick exactly what you want to work on in graduate school. You in essence are working on whatever your advisor is working on. How far you can get away from that depends on the resources your advisor has and his particular expectations. The point is, you can't go around losing interest, and I would imagine that losing interest is a strike even if you are a good researcher. A PhD program is a marathon, not a sprint. You have to be able to sustain interest in a project from start to finish, including your dissertation.

If you started out with no interest, the next program will wonder why you went there to begin with.

If you started out interested but lost it, the next program will wonder whether you can sustain interest in a project long enough to finish a dissertation.

I'm also curious about why you are asking this question when, if your signature line is any indication, you are applying this year for next fall.

[Mneme]

I'm curious about this as well with a small difference.

Suppose the student is receiving absolutely NO funding from their PhD program drops out with a non-terminal MS, works for like a year or so and then applies to a new PhD program.

Would that still be considered unethical?

Edited August 12, 2011 by Mneme

[MoJingly]

I'm curious about this as well with a small difference.

Suppose the student is receiving absolutely NO funding from there PhD program drops out with a non-terminal MS, works for like a year or so and then applies to a new PhD program.

Would that still be considered unethical?

I wouldn't see anything unethical in that at all. It's not graceful, and might make it a little harder to sell yourself to the new adcomm, but it's not unethical.

Also, *their PhD program

(sorry, I'm a little OCD)

[StrangeLight]

I'm curious about this as well with a small difference.

Suppose the student is receiving absolutely NO funding from their PhD program drops out with a non-terminal MS, works for like a year or so and then applies to a new PhD program.

Would that still be considered unethical?

it's not unethical to leave a program that doesn't fund you. if anything, it's unethical for a program to admit you without funding. no one will hold it against you if you move on to a different school that will actually pay you. you can tell your MS advisors that you want to change programs in order to secure funding. if they're decent people, they will genuinely help you do this. you can state explicitly in your SOP that the reason you're leaving your old program is not because of ill will or the inability to finish projects but because you want full funding for your PhD studies. they will understand this and not hold anything against you. promise.