Working in "industry" vs. academia

[fibonacci]

I don't understand what students mean when they say they want to work in "industry" after they get out when they're asked "so what are your future goals and career aspirations?"

Basically it means they have no idea what the hell they're doing and they're just hoping, maybe even expecting, that there will be a job there for them waiting when they get out. Sorry, a PhD after your name doesn't mean there will be anything there after you graduate. Being honest with yourselves, how many of you are hiding out there in grad school really only because you have no idea what you want to do with the rest of your life, or because you didn't want to get a job, or because you couldn't find a job? I laugh every time I hear someone say they want to work in "industry" when they get out, that's like saying "i like food".

[fuzzylogician]

Seriously??

Please.

I laugh every time I hear someone say they want to work in "industry" when they get out, that's like saying "i like food".

If we're doing sarcasm and silly analogies for a moment, it's actually much more like "I'm a vegetarian." Meaning, I like a whole lot of things, but I don't eat meat. Or: "there are many jobs I'd consider doing after I graduate but going into academia and becoming a professor is not one of them." Got it now?

[runonsentence]

Do not feed the troll.

[starmaker]

Uh, I already work in industry, so I'm pretty clearly not in grad school because I am clueless about what to do and/or hiding from the job market. Actually, I originally decided that I wanted a PhD because I was enjoying my industry work but wanted a PI role in a similar sort of company, and a PhD helps with that. Though lately I'm increasingly keen on the professor route.

I see your point that industry is a vague term. There are a lot of different kinds of industry, and roles in industry (I'm actually going to be on a panel about this, at a conference this fall). There's a world of difference between, say, being a PI at an FFRDC, being a consultant in a management consulting firm, and working on the initial product for a brand-new startup. And a lot of grad students don't know that this difference exists. Heck, neither do a lot of professors - when I read books on careers in science written by academics, the token chapter on jobs in industry tends to portray industry R&D jobs as all cut from the same cloth.

However, how is this any more vague than saying that you want to work in academia, or in government after you graduate? Academia could mean an R1, or a small liberal arts college, or a community college, or something else. It could mean a tenure-track position, an adjunct position, an administrative position, or a non-faculty research position (e.g. research engineer). Government could mean one of any number of government agencies with very different agendas and approaches, it could mean a think tank, it could be national, state, or local, it could be military or civilian, it could (in science) be scientific research or science policy.

Granted, you do come across people who have a clear goal of, say, wanting to be a tenure-track prof at an R1 (though some of those people collapse emotionally if they don't achieve that - flexibility can be useful), but a lot of the people that I come across who want to go into academia are just as vague as the others.

[Zencarrot]

I don't understand how you can say you "don't understand what students mean when they say they want to work in industry..." and then subsequently explain to us EXACTLY what you think it means. I thought you didn't understand?

Did you start this thread because you had a question? Or did you just want to assert your bitter opinions online? My guess is it's the latter.

Anyway, I concur with starmaker's post. Industry and academia are just two, clearly separate, ways of describing the general path you wish to take in your career aspirations after you graduate. I find it's quite an effective way of describing what you want to do because most people aren't typically interested in knowing what you want to do in any greater level of detail than that. Furthermore, there is very little degree of overlap between the two fields - at least in my discipline. This creates a clear divide in people's minds about what you want to do when you tell them. However, this divide unfortunate because I believe that both academia and industry can do much to inform each other. It is something I/O Psychologists are actively trying to remedy but are having quite a difficult time at it.

[long_time_lurker]

Honestly the first time I heard the term "industry" on a visit I thought I was with the wrong group, like with Chemical Engineers or something. Then I realized they just meant outside academia. I think it's a dumb term too, but I can see the use of it if you're with a group of academics (or students who aspire to be in academia) because it succinctly states your interests without getting into details. The only thing I don't like is when people say it as if it's beneath academia, as in "Ooooh, you want to get a job in industry".

I thought the OP's take on it was bizarre considering that those who would reply they want to work in academia are the ones who typically get stereotyped as having no idea what they want to do, or not wanting a "real" job, etc.

[Behavioral]

Err...

I think it's almost 50/50 in my my discipline for graduates with Ph.D.'s to get into consulting in industry (it's where the $$$'s at, especially if you're not getting a top R1 TT position straight out). The fact that the overwhelming majority of Ph.D. students in business schools hold an MBA at least tell me that a good amount of them have a clear intention of going into academia, and with the successful placement of many many graduates (even ones from, say, 'not as well-known of schools') get recruited into consulting positions, they have every right to choose that be their end-goal.