Personal Statement Critique

[bogfrog]

Hello,

Anyone out there who might be willing to critique my personal statement? I'd rather not post the entire thing here, but I can PM it to you.

I'm applying for an MS in electrical engineering.

Here's how the beginning of my statement, just to give you a preview:

For most engineers, a facility and fascination with numbers dates back to early childhood. But I was different. In fact, I had trouble with simple arithmetic until I was twenty two years old. Not surprisingly, I can

[jackassjim]

You better have some seriously strong arguments to convince the adcomms that you have improved since you were 22. High school dropout + serious difficulty with simple arithmetic does not sound too reassuring. It's ok to point out your different path, but you run the risk of overdoing it...

[bogfrog]

Does a 750 quant GRE and a 3.67 graduating GPA from a top 15 university help at all? :wink:

If you wanna read the whole thing, and get the whole story, let me know. I'd also appreciate any feedback. I just don't want to post the whole thing here, since the details identify me a little too obviously.

[jackassjim]

Don't want to sound like an a-hole, but 750 is not uber-impressive either. I'm in the social sciences, got a 760 but still only hit the 86th percentile. Engineering folks, I assume, are probably expected to score quite high on that section of the test. Of course, it all depends where you apply...

But yeah, if you want me to look at the statement, you can shoot it to me via pm. I can't guarantee I will have time to look at it (very busy these days), but I still might.

Good luck

Jim

[Astaroth]

I don't think it even matters what the rest of the story is, most people would probably stop reading even after that introduction. Not only should you NEVER start off by drawing attention to your negative aspects, but you should in fact mention them as little as possible, if at all. Everyone has some sort of baggage they are not hugely proud of (although high school dropout is quite bad, really) but you should only talk about it if it is strictly necessary. We all have "excuses" for why things have happened but when you're competing against someone who didn't drop out of high school then it really doesn't matter at all what your excuse is for dropping out. I'm not saying you should lie, but I am saying you shouldn't bring your negative past right up to the start of your PS where it will be most obvious and most memorable! Make a GOOD impression, not a bad one with excuses for why it's bad.

[jackassjim]

Wow, that was even tougher than what I said. I agree with the gist of the argument. Definitely don't start with that. Remove the expression "high school drop-out". If you absolutely feel it is necessary to mention it, make up a sentence that sounds better. Perhaps something like: "After blah blah, I chose to leave school for a few years in order to blah blah and replenish my motivation toward academic pursuits".

Ok, that sounds like crap, but you probably get what I mean.

[linden]

bogfrog:

Your opening paragraph did not turn me off. In fact, quite the opposite, it seemed interesting to me. I would say introducing yourself as a high-school dropout would be bad if you had nothing else to say about your life. I don't know what follows the first lines of your SOP, but it seems you have an interesting story to tell, a story that is not typical of engineering students. Your 3.67 gpa (in engineering, I imagine) is certainly impressive, and your 750 puts you right above average for most engineering students. But, I think the 3.67 says a lot about you, especially if you were a non-traditional student.

You might be better off posting your SOP to this community:

http://community.livejournal.com/applyingtograd/

I have no idea how to PM, but I would be willing to look at your SOP. I probably won't have much to say about the technical aspects--the parts where you discuss your subject--however. But, I will spare you the arrogant talk about how busy I am and about what an unimpressive candidate you are. This process is stressful enough without others adding to the doubts we already feel.

Good luck.

Linden

[coho]

(although high school dropout is quite bad, really)

I think it's bad . . . ass. :mrgreen: As long as it's obvious that you're not grad school drop out material.

I know nothing about mechanical engineering, but I'd be willing to look over it as well (I'm done with my apps).

[t_ruth]

I agree with the last two posters (that overcoming these obstacles are positive). though I think the material might be more appropriate for those diversity statements some schools require than the professional-minded statement of purpose, which really shouldn't be a "personal statement" with emphasis on the personal from what I've seen.

[rising_star]

Everyone has some sort of baggage they are not hugely proud of (although high school dropout is quite bad, really) but you should only talk about it if it is strictly necessary. We all have "excuses" for why things have happened but when you're competing against someone who didn't drop out of high school then it really doesn't matter at all what your excuse is for dropping out.

For all you know, half the people on this board could be high school dropouts. Since most SOPs begin in college, there's little way for an adcom to know if one dropped out of high school...

[bogfrog]

I wasn't really looking for critiques of my intro, for goodness sake. lol What I wanted was some feedback on the whole essay.

Seriously, if any adcom stopped reading after the intro, they are frickn' retarded and I wouldn't even want to go to the same school they work for anyway.

As for the 750 quant, I know it's not super high, but it is completely acceptable. I'm applying to Hopkins, UMD-CP, and GWU I gotta keep it in the Maryland area.

[bogfrog]

BTW, the reason I start with the in your face "high school drop out" stuff is because I want it to be memorable. I want to be that one guy in the app pile that no one forgets. I could not mention it, but then I'd just be another drop in the bucket. (drop out in the bucket? )I do think I could get in without it, but why not include an interesting intro? The only risk I see is in the reader dropping it after the first two sentences. But given the natural curiosity of most human beings, I honestly think that is almost impossible. They'd at least finish the first paragraph, which I did not fully quote here.

Also please keep in mind I am NOT applying for a PhD. I am applying for a Masters, and I am requesting absolutely NO financial aid since my company will pay for my MSEE in full.

[timuralp]

Don't want to sound like an a-hole, but 750 is not uber-impressive either. I'm in the social sciences, got a 760 but still only hit the 86th percentile.

Good for you. The thing is that GRE math measures nothing related to the math EE students do. There is nothing there about vector calc, linear algebra, etc. I agree with MIT, UIUC, and some other schools that GREs in general are pointless and don't really measure anything, hence these schools don't require them (or at least the CS departments in these schools).

Anyway, if you're going for MS and not looking for money and your company's paying for it, I'd say you can almost write whatever the hell you want. Personally, I'd only mention professional stuff, because who cares about the other things. Sorta like one of my profs told me he gets letters with stories about people's childhoods, metaphors comparing computer science to their girlfriends, etc, and they all get tossed, since no one cares, but that's also for PhD.

[jackassjim]

I looked at the statement. Check your PMs for my comments on it.

[IvyHope]

For what it's worth, bogfrog, you shouldn't listen to people who tell you that what you have to offer is "quite bad." Some of the people on here are so negative and condescending that they are nearly intolerable.

Ad comms are interested in people who a.) can show that they are going to be successful in the program, and b.) are different. They get SO SICK of the every-applicant, I-have-an-800-quant-4.0-GPA-from-an-Ivy school. That might be why some of the people on these boards feel they can be so overtly offensive to others- they are threatened.

Anyway, this isn't relevant to you, but might lift your spirits a bit: the dean of the college at my undergrad institution was once a high school dropout. Ad comms realize that not all of us come from privileged backgrounds, and from what my experience has taught me, they like it when someone has a "pull yourself up from your bootstraps" story or something like that.

You might consider starting your statement with your goals associated with earning the degree- why do you want the degree, how will it help you, why is X school your first choice, etc. You can also work into the statement the details of your past (many of the prompts ask prospective students to do this), but also check to see if the school's application provides another place for you to do this. Some schools ask students with blemishes on their academic record to provide a separate document with explanation for this.

Whatever you do, please take the advice you get from these forums with a grain of salt. There are many resources out there in the form of books and consultants that can help you with the SOP- and contrary to what some of the folks here think, they are not the experts ;-)

[Astaroth]

My criticism was offered constructively. It saddens me that several people have perceived it otherwise. The intention remains good, and what I mentioned about keeping negative things as far away from your SoP as possible is something you would have heard from any SoP advisor anyway. You can still mention that you're a high school drop out if you think it's that necessary, but even if you have an amazing life story about how you bounced back and conquered the world, admissions officers read personal statements to evaluate you as a candidate, they don't care about your life story. Give them your credentials, argue why you are good at what you do, show your interest in what you do, and show that you are confident about what you are getting yourself into. If they wanted to hear your life story, they would ask for it (and some do, for example UMichigan).

As for the suggestion that I "feel threatened", I don't really see the reasoning behind saying that, since I am giving you advice that will INCREASE your chances against me (if I had in fact been competing with you for a place).

[IvyHope]

My criticism was offered constructively. It saddens me that several people have perceived it otherwise. The intention remains good, and what I mentioned about keeping negative things as far away from your SoP as possible is something you would have heard from any SoP advisor anyway.

I agree that your advice was constructive. I simply disagree that any SOP advisor would advise someone with blemishes on their record to pretend it is not there. I also happen to agree that a statement should start with the strengths.

However, some people have circumstances in their lives that are unique and lend themselves to an explanation. The statement of purpose should address that. While the SOP should not be a life story, if there are issues with a prospective student's transcripts, most readers are going to be curious about that. I believe it looks more suspicious to ignore the issue. It's acceptable and even responsible to own up to it, if it's done maturely and tastefully within the context of the larger statement.

As for the suggestion that I "feel threatened", I don't really see the reasoning behind saying that, since I am giving you advice that will INCREASE your chances against me (if I had in fact been competing with you for a place).

I did not direct that comment to you, Astaroth. Just something that seems to be occurring on these boards. People come here for advice and constructive criticism, and do not need to be told that their chances are dismal by someone with a perfect GRE/GPA, because it's simply not true. Again, not directing that at you. :wink:

[bogfrog]

I never really felt offended by any comment. I'm pretty confident that I'm going to get into a good program. Like I said, I just graduated with a 3.67 GPA from one of the most selective universities in the country. It's not like I'm not climbing out of a dumpster or something.

The only thing that I found strange was that people started critiquing an excerpt from my SOP introduction! I actually found it sort of amusing. I even intentionally cut the intro off mid-sentence, just to pique people's curiosity, and I still got a handful of critiques. wth? There is simply no basis to make a critique if you haven't even read the entire first paragraph.

[georgica1]

With every bit of information you convey in your SOP, there is a positive way and a negative way to say it. From the intro you posted, it seems to me that you're starting with a negative. Your non-traditional background is definitely something you should discuss in your SOP, especially since you have clearly gone on to achieve academic success as an undergrad, but you may want to reconsider your wording. Rather than saying 'I struggled with basic arithmetic until I was 22,' I'd go with something along the lines of 'I achieved ____ success/grades/scores/whatever despite having dropped out of high school, etc.' (obviously this is not the exact wording, but the point is to put a positive spin on this information; present it as an accomplishment rather than something negative.) Think about how your words will be interpreted by the people reading your statement. You want them to be impressed by your ability to overcome setbacks rather than to doubt your ability to do graduate work. I'd also only specifically address your former struggle with math if you have visible proof of overcoming it (i.e. an A in an advanced math class on your transcript.) Your GRE score might not be enough to convince them that your math skills are strong -- there are a lot of ways to 'work' the GRE that allow people to get relatively high scores without necessarily being great at math.