Vanderbilt University Divinity School

[RD_Paul]

Hi all,

So, I am applying to Duke Div., Yale Div., Notre Dame, Candler, and Princeton Theological Seminary, and I am thinking of adding Vanderbilt to the list. However, I have found mixed reviews online and from some of my undergraduate professors. I am wondering if anyone knows anything at all about Vanderbilt that would be helpful in deciding whether or not to apply. I am just looking to apply to one more school, preferably on par with the rest, in order to increase my options a little.

Just to give an idea of where I am coming from, my interests are mostly in Biblical Studies and Ethics, specifically ecology and violence within the Christian tradition. I will probably end up doing an M.Div. (or an MTS at Notre Dame, as I am not Roman Catholic), but am planning to get a PhD.

Any thoughts would be beneficial!

Thanks

[Balatro]

Vanderbilt was a close second for me (behind Yale, but I was applying for a unique dual degree and really it came down to only Yale or Vanderbilt).

The school itself is (imo) very liberal. There's some interesting work being done at Vanderbilt with violence/biblical studies/ethics though quite a bit of it is being done with a focus on minorities (particularly women within the Christian church). Ellen Armour and Susan Hylen are immediately coming to mind.

A close friend went to Vanderbilt a couple of years before I went to Yale and on our visits to one another we frequently mentioned that as a generalized whole, we felt Vanderbilt Divinity students were better educated than Yale's - obviously subjective but I've read others here state the same.

[sacklunch]

I visited Yale and got the impression they are more conservative with the training offered to MDiv students. While I did get into Vandy's MTS, I don't have much comparison since I didn't visit the school. However, I know two guys from VDS and they seem to be fairly 1. liberal and 2. smart. I obviously don't want to associate liberal folk with being smarter than conservative ones, so take my comments how you will.

[RD_Paul]

Thank you both. I appreciate your thoughts!

[coffeekid]

I am currently at VDS, and feel that Balatro's comments somewhat closely match my experience. I am not sure how much you were asking about the political demeanor of the students/faculty, but because everyone is chiming in, I would confirm that it is liberal, but not radically. After moving to the south from the north, I learned that I was a moderately conservative northerner, but a moderately liberal southerner, if that makes any sense. That said, I would say that I am only slightly more conservative than the average of the population here, which is absolutely agreeable to me, especially considering the fact that intellectual rigor, not political dogmatism, seems to dictate things here.

My focus is not in ethics, but I have a lot of friends here who turned down offers at some of the schools you mentioned to study ethics at Vandy. This is not to say that the ethics program is superior, only that it is definitely in the same league. Armour and Hylen are both great scholars and run good seminars, but neither especially focus on ethics, at least in the normal sense of the term as a subdiscipline of religious studies. But, Balatro is right that their work is certainly germane to religious ethics, especially with regard to gender, sexuality, and violence. The heavy hitters here in ethics are Ted Smith, Melissa Snarr, and Victor Anderson, though Stacey Floyd-Thomas and Graham Reside are up and comers as well from what I understand. Smith, Snarr, and Anderson I know for a fact to be not only very innovative thinkers, but supremely approachable and helpful for students looking to jump from a masters to a Ph.D. I say this because two of my friends have spoken at length with them about their Ph.D. apps and have received a lot of good feedback from them. Whether or not they any of them are "liberal" is obviously going to be relative. My understanding is that ethics is a pretty progressive field in religious studies as it is, considering the social justice trajectory.

I would say: definitely apply. On top of this all, Nashville is a surprisingly awesome city. I'm loving it here.

[whubbla]

If your current decision is between apply and don't apply, I see little reason not to apply. The $50ish application fee (which could conceivably be waived in the event of financial hardship) and few marginal hours it takes to write an application (I presume you've already solicited LORs for your other applications, which are easy enough for your recommendation writers to retool) seem like a small cost compared to the potential reward. Vanderbilt is certainly academically strong, and they seem to have relatively generous funding, which you're less likely to find at some of these other institutions.

[RD_Paul]

Well, you all have helped me decide. I was mostly trying to gauge whether or not VDS is on par academically with the rest of the schools on my list. Like I said in my first post, I had just gotten different perspectives on VDS, so I just wanted some more thoughts. I have had one former professor encourage me not to apply, but I suspect that she may have some sort of personal issue with the school. Anyway, it sounds like VDS could be a really nice fit for me. I guess it depended on who you talked to, but I was usually the "liberal" guy theologically in college, especially among the mostly conservative campus ministry with which I interned. The political environment isn't as much of a concern for me (I am loosely Anabaptist/Mennonite, so I tend to stay out of/not care much about sectarian politics), but it does help me to envision the overall feel of the school.

It is also nice to know that Vanderbilt has good possibilities for funding. I have pretty good "stats" from college and beyond, so I am hoping for/anticipating substantial funding.

[alem]

Hello,

I am also interested in Vanderbilt, however my interests are in New Testament and Patrisitcs, hoping to pursue a PhD in early Christianity afterward. So I was wondering if you thought this would be a good fit for me? Another question I have is more technical, what are the differences between the MTS and MA?

[coffeekid]

alem,

First, yes, Vanderbilt has a very strong New Testament department. The most notable all star is Amy-Jill Levine, who is a serious scholar, is very well known, and is deeply invested in her students. Other big names in New Testament studies are Daniel Patte (just edited the Cambridge Dictionary of Christianity in 2010, which was a big deal if you went to AAR last year) and Fernando Segovia. There are a lot of people who have a strong emphasis on patristics as well, though I am less familiar with who in particular.

There are a lot of differences between the MTS and the MA, which confuses a lot of people. Technically, the MA is housed in the Graduate Department of Religion (along with the Ph.Ds) while the MTS is housed in the Divinity School (along with the M.Divs). In reality, that division is mostly artificial. The GDR and the Div School are more or less indistinguishable: same building, same professors, mostly the same opportunities for classes.

The MA is a one-year degree (24 credits) and the MTS is a two-year degree (51 credits). Despite what the website currently says, there is no longer a "cross disciplinary M.A.", only the "Specialty M.A.", mostly because this was, again, an artificial division.

As far as courses options go, the short of it is this: The MA has virtually no restrictions on courses you can take in religion and elsewhere in the university if it is germane to your "specialty" (the typical foci you'll see in religious studies, posted on their site). You do, however, have to demonstrate competency in a language for it. The MTS has only 7 requirements to meet in terms of courses out of a total 17 courses needed to get your 51 credits. About half of these are the "essentials" (i.e. hebrew bible, NT, your choice of church history), and half of them are broadly defined and can be satisfied by just about anything (a course in ethics, a course in theology, a course in pastoral care). Also, you are allowed to take up to two courses in other university departments.

The true wisdom regarding this distinction is this: even though the MA accepts fewer students, by far, than the MTS, most competitive applicants do the MTS [1] because a one-year masters is nearly useless by itself to get you into a Ph.D. with the abundance of MTS (two year), MAR (two year), and MDiv (three year) applicants competing against you and [2] the MTS has better funding! The site says that MA students get at least 70% tuition covered, which is true. However, in recent years, there have been no offers for more than exactly 70% coverage, unless you are doing Jewish Studies, in which case you can get 85%, which still means you are paying out of pocket. This does end up being a better offer than a lot of MTS students will get, but many competitive students will get a full-tuition offer from the MTS, or even a stipend in rare cases. An acquaintance of mine applied to the MA and was told by the adcom, "You are our top applicant! Which is why we want you to submit an application to the MTS so we can give you a better financial offer." This was about four years ago, though.

Even though "MA" sounds more academic, MDivs and MTSs are becoming the norm for pre-doctoral in religion. The only real reason I'm seeing now for the MA is to supplement another masters you may have (MDiv, an MA in another field). I know some might take offense at this, but I honestly have not seen a student go BA --> MA --> Ph.D. (at a competitive program, mind you) in a very long time.

Needless to say, I went the MTS route and couldn't be happier. Though, I should note that the MDiv funding is even better, which is why a lot of academic track students apply for the MDiv. I know of at least five students my year who got full-tuition and $10,000 stipends through the MDiv, which is not much less than many doctoral stipends. Considering how cheap it is to live in Nashville, that makes life pretty easy while in grad school.

Let me know if you have any other questions about VDS!

[sacklunch]

Coffee,

Any thoughts on the "Taking two years to complete the MA" found here: http://divinity.vanderbilt.edu/degrees/graduate/gradtwoyears.php

I'm still a bit confused? Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it recommends taking 6 hours + a 0 credit course (for financial aid reasons)? But how many courses would you actually take each semester then (what shows up on your transcript?)?

[Balatro]

Coffee,

Any thoughts on the "Taking two years to complete the MA" found here: http://divinity.vand...radtwoyears.php

I'm still a bit confused? Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it recommends taking 6 hours + a 0 credit course (for financial aid reasons)? But how many courses would you actually take each semester then (what shows up on your transcript?)?

You would take the original 24 credits over the first year, then the second year you would take 2 traditional courses (6 credits), and a 0-credit Masters Thesis Research course in the Fall and Spring Semesters.

It would break down like this:

Year 1

Fall: 12 credits (4 courses)

Spring: 12 credits (4 courses)

Year 2

Fall: 6+0 (2 courses and Masters Thesis Research)

Spring: 6+0 (2 courses and Masters Thesis Research)

This route is designed for someone who has inadequate undergraduate preparation in religion or wants to specialize in a specific area of religious studies that they lack preparation. It's fairly common at other schools too - there was a man at Yale pursuing a Masters whose undergraduate work was in nursing so he took extra time to finish his Masters. Another wanted to specialize in the psychology of religion but lacked a solid foundation in psychology so used his first year to pick up some advanced undergraduate coursework in psychology and sociology (along with religious courses).

[sacklunch]

Cool, thanks .

[coffeekid]

You would take the original 24 credits over the first year, then the second year you would take 2 traditional courses (6 credits), and a 0-credit Masters Thesis Research course in the Fall and Spring Semesters.

It would break down like this:

Year 1

Fall: 12 credits (4 courses)

Spring: 12 credits (4 courses)

Year 2

Fall: 6+0 (2 courses and Masters Thesis Research)

Spring: 6+0 (2 courses and Masters Thesis Research)

This route is designed for someone who has inadequate undergraduate preparation in religion or wants to specialize in a specific area of religious studies that they lack preparation. It's fairly common at other schools too - there was a man at Yale pursuing a Masters whose undergraduate work was in nursing so he took extra time to finish his Masters. Another wanted to specialize in the psychology of religion but lacked a solid foundation in psychology so used his first year to pick up some advanced undergraduate coursework in psychology and sociology (along with religious courses).

Couldn't have put it any more clearly myself! Simply to add to this: In practice, you don't see many people doing the MA in two years here, though there is nothing wrong with that as an option, precisely for the reasons Balatro gave.

[Balatro]

Coffeekid,

 

Vandy offers large stipends on top of full tuition for the MDiv? I didn't see anything concerning stipends on the department site. Can anyone confirm the Vanderbilt MDiv stipend?

 

Thanks,

N

 

Yes -- well, anything above $0 is large for a M* but the stipends tend to hover around $10k, some less, some more.

 

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/catalogs/divinity/divinity.pdf#fin has some information on the various scholarships. Almost all of the stipends are tied to merit scholarships but a former undergrad classmate did receive a stipend not tied to a merit scholarship but I have no idea how common that is.

[Kuriakos]

Umm, it looks like someone made sock-puppets to downvote Balatro. That is just bizarre.

[coffeekid]

Coffeekid,

 

Vandy offers large stipends on top of full tuition for the MDiv? I didn't see anything concerning stipends on the department site. Can anyone confirm the Vanderbilt MDiv stipend?

 

Thanks,

N

Wow, thought this thread was a goner!

Yes, over the past three years (i.e. - my time here), each year VDS has offered at least five (I think a bit more, actually) $10,000 stipends in the form of Carpenter and Turner scholarships. Some students in the Turner program have to be involved in a church ministry during their time to "earn" their scholarship; I'm not sure if this is all of them. I don't believe that the Carpenter program requires any additional effort from students, beyond basic GPA requirements.

It should be clarified, though, that the funding opportunities for the MDiv are a bit better than the MTS. My application year (2010), for example, only one student got an offer of $5,000 stipend for the MTS, while 5 or more MDiv students got $10,000 stipends. A good deal of MTS students (5-10, I would guess) also got full-tuition offers, but only the one got the stipend. I can't speak to whether or not the MTS stipend is a regular occurrence. 

I kind of laugh now, because somehow VDS has developed this reputation (at least on gradcafe) of having poor funding opportunities, when my experience both as a prospective and an insider is that it has among the most generous funding opportunities for any divinity school in the US.

To supplement Balatro's link, also see...

Turner Scholarship: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/tccl/scholarship.php

Carpenter Program: http://divinity.vanderbilt.edu/programs/carpenter/carpenter.php

 

[Balatro]

Coffeekid,

 

Thank you so much for the information. I really hope I get accepted to Vanderbilt's MDiv program--though, I'm not sure what my chances are of receiving funding.

 

Vandy has, from others' experience, been known to lowball initial FA offers. Others have reported that when they contacted the school and reiterated how much they wanted to attend but that their initial FA offering was hampering that dream, that VDS (almost) always replied back with a more generous offer.

 

Umm, it looks like someone made sock-puppets to downvote Balatro. That is just bizarre.

 

Yea, about a year ago there was someone going through the Religion forum with multiple accounts massively downvoting mine and several other's posts. A couple of us accumulated downvotes in excess of 100 as a result of it but the Moderators refused to get involved. Most of the downvotes centered around discussion of YDS, for what that's worth.

[religioustiger]

Crap, a couple of people have posted acceptance/funding results from Vanderbilt Divinity on the 2012-2013 MDiv forum. I didn't hear anything from the department. Should I be concerned that all the fully-funded offers have gone out? 

[Norman G]

I'm not sure either. I really wish departments could save us some grief and send all notifications at once--I mean I'm sure those gifted few wouldn't mind waiting a few days to receive their acceptances.

[Josh J.]

Crap, a couple of people have posted acceptance/funding results from Vanderbilt Divinity on the 2012-2013 MDiv forum. I didn't hear anything from the department. Should I be concerned that all the fully-funded offers have gone out?

I saw one on 13-14, but none others. I went back and searched but couldn't find any more info.

[Josh J.]

Anyone out there hear anything else from Vandy?

[Norman G]

Still nothing for me either. I assume I'll be offered admission but, at this point, I doubt it will be accompanied with a nice scholarship.