British Programs

[Mr Grimwig]

Anyone else applying to Masters' or Ph.D. programs in the UK for fall 2012?

Now that I'm done with my American applications, I'm in the middle of apps to Oxford, Cambridge, UC London, Edinburgh, Durham, and maybe a few others. I'm applying for Masters degrees there first (MPhil, Ms.T.) because, since I only have a BA, I can't apply directly to their Ph.D. programs. I think the Masters programs will be a great preparation for a doctoral research course in a British university. I like the looks of a lot of these programs, especially the independence their course structures provide, and their focus on historical contextual readings that put less emphasis on theory. I'm pretty excited about my prospects, especially since these UK applications do not require GRE scores (my only flaw!) . The UK English departments make clear what they look for in applicants; they're more straightforward than most of the department pages for American schools I've applied to.

Still, I have some reservations about the UK programs.

--> Funding is much more scarce. Sure, the tuitions are lower, but still it's a far cry from the tuition waivers + living stipend most US programs I'm applying to are promising. Also, unless it's Oxford or Cambridge, I get the impression from my professors that British humanities programs are poorly funded in general. Perhaps this is too much a blanket statement? I always thought places like Edinburgh, UCL, and St. Andrews had top funding as well.

--> I've heard from my professors and mentors at my undergraduate university that a doctoral degree from a UK program can pose problems for someone seeking a job in American academia. It's not that the UK programs are thought to be less rigorous; rather, it's about the teaching experience. Since UK doctoral programs only take about three years to complete, there is virtually no time for teaching opportunities, and they do not encourage them. Hence, one may be a weaker candidate in the American job market that's already glutted with American Ph.D.s who do have teaching experience from their six-to seven-year programs.

--> I'm not sure what faculty interaction is like compared to American programs. The websites at Oxford and Cambridge promise lots of faculty contact, but I've heard from students familiar with these programs that it's nothing compared with the interaction at American universities.

Despite the negatives, if I can't get into a good American program, I'd welcome the opportunity to go to the UK. Indeed, all other issues aside, I would rather spend my graduate studies in Britain, just out of personal preference for the experience.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Mr Grimwig

[antecedent]

I'm applying to Edinburgh (I'm tempted by Oxford and Glasgow but I'm putting it off at the moment...) and I had many of the discussions you mention with my mentor prof last year.

PhDs or DPhils from the ancient universities are just about the only ones that will be recognized as having the same value as American PhDs (from what I've heard). So Oxbridge, Edinburgh, maybe UCL will stand you in good stead, but the others may look a bit odd to potential American or Canadian hiring committees further down the line.

I also totally agree about the one year masters. As far as I can tell, they're a lot like the MA portion of American MA/PhDs, and would be really useful to someone like me (and you) fresh out of undergrad and looking for a bit more coursework before being released onto the desolate plains of the dissertation. I had considered applying directly to the MPhil at one or two places, but in the end I decided against it mainly because I wanted to be done with my applications for this season.

You're right about funding though - economically the UK is even worse off than the States, and since their funding is largely public it's been cut a lot in the last few years. It doesn't help that one year MAs, MScs, MLitts etc. are all basically money grabs (despite their usefulness) and are not meant to be funded because they want that 14,000 pounds.They also, as you stated, don't have many teaching opportunities, though you can extend your degree by taking an MPhil (which many schools will require) in addition to your PhD/DPhil. Even if you take a 1 year MPhil and a 3 (or even 4!) year PhD/DPhil you'd still be out before most of your American counterparts, so there is that. And there is considerably more funding available the further you get into the system, though it's not even close to what American institutions offer.

I absolutely love the look of a lot of the UK programs though. I agree that the departmental webpages are more explicit in what they offer and what they want in their candidates. The programs for my field of interest too appear to be much more common and vibrant, which is certainly a draw...if I don't get in to any of the schools I applied to this year, I am definitely applying to way more UK programs next year. Edinburgh, Glasgow, Oxford, Cardiff, Manchester...goddamn I wish the funding was better!

[Mr Grimwig]

I noticed the same regarding vibrancy in particular fields of study. I'm going into modernisms, and all the UK programs I am considering seem to have a lot of faculty and students working in that area, not to mention Masters courses specifically directed at that period.

I almost didn't apply to UK programs, but given my lack of confidence in the US ones, I am so happy I made the decision to apply for a number of them. I want to have some sort of option open next year, even if it means paying more money than I would have wished. I still hope I'll be offered some form of funding, though I doubt it. From what my professors say, British programs love nothing more than whisking Americans and Canadians into their programs and plucking dollars out of their wallets for pound conversion. But perhaps this is too cynical a view.

I also realize that I can go for a one-year Masters program there and still apply to American Ph.D.s again next cycle if I don't want to stay in the UK. It's a win-win situation.

[indalomena]

Hello folks

I've been through the British system to MA level, so perhaps I can offer some inside info.

Funding is extremely scarce at the master's level. Most people just suck it up and pay (I worked for a year and saved before my MA) because you cannot get a British PhD without a master's degree, and PhD funding is not quite so impossible to get, though still very difficult.

Be a bit cautious about Oxbridge MSt/MPhil degrees. I have not met a single person who had a positive intellectual experience on one of these courses. Of course there are huge compensations -- as an American coming to the UK for a year, you would have quite a magical time at Oxford or Cambridge, and meet some fascinating people (the people I know who did these courses loved Oxford/Cambridge, just hated the course/department). But the courses are often rather poorly run and master's students not treated extremely well. This is why I steered clear of Oxbridge for MSt/MPhil. But you need to think about what you want, and these universities certainly have a lot to offer in terms of resources, social life, eating every day in a Hogwarts-like hall ...

It's VERY different at the PhD/DPhil level, because it's all about your supervisor (although, bear in mind that at Oxford you don't get to choose your supervisor...) If you have a good relationship with him/her, then you'd have a very positive experience. This is the case at any UK university, where there is no coursework towards the PhD.

You're right to be concerned about employability after a UK PhD but please bear this in mind: you can circumvent the difficulties yourself by being extremely self-motivated. You won't have so much in the way of professional preparation so you really have to take the initiative yourself, which is wonderfully possible due to all that freedom you have. Make absolutely sure you keep track of calls for papers and get out there, go to conferences. You will get teaching experience if you push for it. I did a lot of "professional activity" on my MA but I was the only one who did -- it just didn't occur to many of my fellow students, even though they were very brilliant.

I'd be happy to discuss this over PM if that helps anyone. And I hope I didn't give too negative an impression of Oxbridge/Britain in general -- the system is wonderful if you are well-prepared and self-motivated, with a clear idea of your research direction and the initiative to pursue it independently. It really is a case of getting out what you put in.

[yank in the M20]

I did just that--did a one-year Master's in the UK and am planning to go back to the US for a PhD. You cannot get full funding as an international student except in Scotland and there you are competing for that limited funding with all of the disciplines--my thought is an English PhD next to one in the sciences has little chance, but maybe that's pessimistic. They also let pretty much anyone in (I'm speaking outside of Cambridge and Oxford--I don't know the situation there)--good if you didn't do as well as you wanted in your undergrad or have had a lot of time out, but means that the prestige the school's name offers is offset by the fact that it is so easy to get in that it doesn't say much for your potential that you did. I had ten years out between my BA and my MA, audited a few English classes in Germany and used those teachers as my recommenders, wrote a pretty middling, though well-written writing sample (actually better use of language than I use now--something about free play of words when you have less research? I don't know) and a frankly awful SOP and I got into Manchester, which is in the Russell Group and very strong theoretically, and Edinburgh.

But, as long as you're aware of this downside, I think it's an amazing experience. Your interaction with your lecturers is very much what you put into it. There are weekly papers given by faculty within and outside the university and big name guest speakers and conferences and going along to them is a great way of both meeting people and showing your interest. The British universities, from what I've heard since it's been so long since I've been in an American, are much less hierarchical. The lecturers are also on the whole younger--good and bad because you are less likely to be working with an academic rock star, but more likely to be working with people that know how much work is needed to get where they want to be and can share that information with you. I had only positive experiences with visiting in office hours, etc. And I still go to university events now even though I finished my MA in 2010, something that's been encouraged. I've found all of the lecturers to be warm and welcoming, their research is theoretical (I chose Manchester and, as I said, it's known over here for being quite theoretical) yet tied to historical and materialist links more than I see with a lot of US scholarship.

As for the PhD, teaching is involved, but there is no opportunity to create your own course or anything like that that you sometimes see in the US and you teach much less, maybe one or two discussion sections a semester after your first year. I also think the PhD might be less valued in the States again because of the fact that anyone can get in--the good (or lucky, depending on who you talk to) students are the ones getting full or partial funding. And there is just more of a glut of students with PhDs when you finish, making it harder to get a job because you have even more competition. I mean, some of these kids finish with their PhDs at 25!

I'm rambling a bit now...if you have any more specific questions, let me know.

[Mr Grimwig]

Thanks indalomena and yank! Hearing your experiences and advice is quite helpful. It seems like the British programs have many positives to outweigh the negatives. I am extremely self-motivated and work best independently. My favorite part of my undergraduate experience was my year spent working on an independent research project and senior thesis. So I feel like I would fit into the structure of British programs nicely, and I would not mind pursuing teaching experience and attending conferences on my own.

[indalomena]

Thanks indalomena and yank! Hearing your experiences and advice is quite helpful. It seems like the British programs have many positives to outweigh the negatives. I am extremely self-motivated and work best independently. My favorite part of my undergraduate experience was my year spent working on an independent research project and senior thesis. So I feel like I would fit into the structure of British programs nicely, and I would not mind pursuing teaching experience and attending conferences on my own.

Also, remember that the British PhD is SO MUCH shorter. So you'll land that sweet academic job a lot sooner. *fingers crossed*