SSHRC

[ogopogo]

It has been suggested (by SSHRC) that they score on a curve, in which case it might make sense to re-score, given that your application is now being compared to a different set than it was in the first round. There's a discussion on another forum somewhere (discover vancouver? test magic? not sure but search for SSHRC results) where people talk about the changes in their scores from round to round. On the other hand, the info they included with the original letter is pretty unclear about this part of the process when it says

In the first phase, applications are reviewed by three committee members and assigned preliminary scores. In the final phase, each Committee resolves discrepancies, discusses marginal cases and establishes final scores and rankings for all applications.

Which sort of seems to imply that the score would only change if it is marginal or people disagree about it. So I don't know really. I applied independently too, and am keeping my fingers crossed that my score doesn't change much as well.

[dramanda]

It has been suggested (by SSHRC) that they score on a curve, in which case it might make sense to re-score, given that your application is now being compared to a different set than it was in the first round. There's a discussion on another forum somewhere (discover vancouver? test magic? not sure but search for SSHRC results) where people talk about the changes in their scores from round to round.

There are several places where I've seen this info:

http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/ ... 46022.html

and

http://community.livejournal.com/canuckgrads (you'll have to poke around for April 2008 topics about SSHRC)

[ogopogo]

Thanks dramanda - it was the discover vancouver one I was thinking of. Kinda annoying to see all those posts dated in April for 2007, and not even the end of April...

[jouissance]

There are several places where I've seen this info:

http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/ ... 46022.html

and

http://community.livejournal.com/canuckgrads (you'll have to poke around for April 2008 topics about SSHRC)

Thanks for the sites; unfortunately, it looks like the scoring relation between the two rounds is more or less arbitrary, with scores dropping by as little as 0.4 and as much as 9.0.

I guess we just wait...and wait.

[Rosee]

Hey everyone - I have been following this thread for a long time, it's nice to know others are in the same boat waiting to hear about SSHRC Doctoral $. Where are people getting info on how they were ranked out of 30? This is news to me so I wanted to ask. Thanks!

[dramanda]

Hey everyone - I have been following this thread for a long time, it's nice to know others are in the same boat waiting to hear about SSHRC Doctoral $. Where are people getting info on how they were ranked out of 30? This is news to me so I wanted to ask. Thanks!

If you applied as an external applicant, you'll have a letter from the first round with your score. Those of us that applied through our university will only know our score when we get our letters in the coming weeks.

[natalia]

For anyone that is (ridiculously bored/obsessed and) interested, there is a review of SSHRC's peer review process on their website right now. This review was conducted by an international board that rated SSHRC amongst the top peer review granting agencies worldwide. The most interesting part of the review is that it breaks down the peer review process for the fellowship's competition, after our applications get to Ottawa. The second most interesting part is that this board believes that SSHRC should rethink its separate applications processes for those applying through a school and those applying direct. The international board saw this as an unfair process, working in the favour of those applying directly to SSHRC. Since those applicants that apply directly only have one round to go through before making the A-list, the board thought that this was an unfair advantage to those applying through schools who have to go through two rounds of ranking before making the A-list (departmental and university-wide).

So, for those of you who applied direct, think of how lucky you are in the process even though you have to wait that much longer for results.

[jouissance]

For anyone that is (ridiculously bored/obsessed and) interested, there is a review of SSHRC's peer review process on their website right now. This review was conducted by an international board that rated SSHRC amongst the top peer review granting agencies worldwide. The most interesting part of the review is that it breaks down the peer review process for the fellowship's competition, after our applications get to Ottawa. The second most interesting part is that this board believes that SSHRC should rethink its separate applications processes for those applying through a school and those applying direct. The international board saw this as an unfair process, working in the favour of those applying directly to SSHRC. Since those applicants that apply directly only have one round to go through before making the A-list, the board thought that this was an unfair advantage to those applying through schools who have to go through two rounds of ranking before making the A-list (departmental and university-wide).

So, for those of you who applied direct, think of how lucky you are in the process even though you have to wait that much longer for results.

Hmmm...interesting stuff. I will say this, though, as someone who failed to get a SSHRC independently and then succeeded through an institution: the support that institutions offer in the preparation process is an unbelievable advantage. Simply put, having a variety of people at your disposal who have had multiple years of experience with the process means that you get the benefit of their sense of what plays well and what does not. I honestly feel like I could have applied 3 times independently without being successful...and I am someone who has lots of experience with grant-writing, having worked as an artist for a few years as well as having worked for a couple of non-profits.

SSHRC may be amongst the world leaders, but it is still very much an insider's game (IMO).

[mt1]

I went to an information session in the fall about SSHRC and one of the presenters was a professor who actually sat on an Ottawa panel once. One of the points he kept stressing was that, overall, what the judges looked for most was the ability to articulate a clear vision for the thesis/research proposal. He sort of admitted that the scoring system was just an attempt to make the whole thing look objective or to somehow quantify how they determined the best ones.

I even asked about the importance of publishing and he said that they really don't expect much in most disciplines unless you're in a second or third year of a PhD. All in all, he said, the clarity, insightfulness and originality of the two-page proposal is what they really focus on (assuming you have decent marks and references of course.)

[ogopogo]

For anyone that is (ridiculously bored/obsessed and) interested, there is a review of SSHRC's peer review process on their website right now. This review was conducted by an international board that rated SSHRC amongst the top peer review granting agencies worldwide. The most interesting part of the review is that it breaks down the peer review process for the fellowship's competition, after our applications get to Ottawa. The second most interesting part is that this board believes that SSHRC should rethink its separate applications processes for those applying through a school and those applying direct. The international board saw this as an unfair process, working in the favour of those applying directly to SSHRC. Since those applicants that apply directly only have one round to go through before making the A-list, the board thought that this was an unfair advantage to those applying through schools who have to go through two rounds of ranking before making the A-list (departmental and university-wide).

So, for those of you who applied direct, think of how lucky you are in the process even though you have to wait that much longer for results.

That's interesting, but I don't think that part of the process actually advantages anyone that much. Whether you get reviewed twice or once to get onto the A-list, they are both based on absolute quotas (that are meant to be fair) and there is some pretty harsh weeding out going on in both situations. Plus, if you look at last year's stats, people who applied independently have one of the lower success rates in Canada, whether they made it to the A list or not.

[violet]

Does anyone know how THE LIST looks like? I mean the list that universities get access to. Is it a list of all SSHRC winners, or just a list of their winners? I'm asking because I applied independently and although my choice of university was clear from the SSHRC application (I'm already doing research at that university, without being registered there. Freelancing, kindda...), I'm not sure if I could start inquiring there once I find the results are out (from this forum obviously!). I called SSHRC about a week ago to ask if results would be made available to my future university, and they said I should wait for the letter if I applied independently. No other details or explanations. So perhaps Masters SSHRC winners would know anything about that? Or anybody...do you know what's on that list, or database, whatever?

[dramanda]

Does anyone know how THE LIST looks like? I mean the list that universities get access to. Is it a list of all SSHRC winners, or just a list of their winners? I'm asking because I applied independently and although my choice of university was clear from the SSHRC application (I'm already doing research at that university, without being registered there. Freelancing, kindda...), I'm not sure if I could start inquiring there once I find the results are out (from this forum obviously!). I called SSHRC about a week ago to ask if results would be made available to my future university, and they said I should wait for the letter if I applied independently. No other details or explanations. So perhaps Masters SSHRC winners would know anything about that? Or anybody...do you know what's on that list, or database, whatever?

I don't know the answer to this question, but what's the harm in asking the potential university when the results come out? The worst they could say is that they don't have access to your information.

Total speculation here, but it WOULD make sense for the university you listed on your application to also receive your results.....please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[natalia]

That's interesting, but I don't think that part of the process actually advantages anyone that much. Whether you get reviewed twice or once to get onto the A-list, they are both based on absolute quotas (that are meant to be fair) and there is some pretty harsh weeding out going on in both situations. Plus, if you look at last year's stats, people who applied independently have one of the lower success rates in Canada, whether they made it to the A list or not.

It really depends on where you are applying from. My school took a big hit last year and had a less successful rate than those who apply direct. This means that our quota went down by quite a bit this year and made it much harder to get through the tiered ranking processes. I agree with jouissance that applying from within an institution has the direct advantage of workshops, seminars, and advisors for the students in the SSHRC process. However, I have also seen more than one student get a CGS without having any outside input.

Mostly, I was thinking that since SSHRC is taking the advisory board's suggestions into account when making changes to the peer review process, this means that either they will eliminate the university rankings (which I consider unlikely) or create another ranking process for direct applicants. This might mean that applying directly will get that much harder in the years to come.

[dramanda]

I went to an information session in the fall about SSHRC and one of the presenters was a professor who actually sat on an Ottawa panel once. One of the points he kept stressing was that, overall, what the judges looked for most was the ability to articulate a clear vision for the thesis/research proposal. He sort of admitted that the scoring system was just an attempt to make the whole thing look objective or to somehow quantify how they determined the best ones.

I even asked about the importance of publishing and he said that they really don't expect much in most disciplines unless you're in a second or third year of a PhD. All in all, he said, the clarity, insightfulness and originality of the two-page proposal is what they really focus on (assuming you have decent marks and references of course.)

I've heard this "proposal is everything" idea as well. I sincerely hope it's true, as I have no publications. I've been worried about that since the day I submitted my application.

[Neatgirl]

I am worried about the same thing dramanda! Especially with going into the first year of a PhD program - the Master's programs are so short (and the review process so long for journals) that it's hard to get published early on! I have also been told that the proposal is key, so let's stick with that!

[ogopogo]

Mostly, I was thinking that since SSHRC is taking the advisory board's suggestions into account when making changes to the peer review process, this means that either they will eliminate the university rankings (which I consider unlikely) or create another ranking process for direct applicants. This might mean that applying directly will get that much harder in the years to come.

If they are going to be screwing around with the system I'm definitely happy that I will be applying from a school next year if I'm not successful this year. I just don't see how else they could do it - i mean, how much longer do you think it would take them if they had to organize two different committees to look at the files? And it would be way less fair to have independents apply through a school (either former or prospective) that would almost certainly prefer their more closely associated students win the awards.

[monkeybrain]

I had really wanted to find out the results today. I didn't expect to, but I wanted to.

Just putting that out there.

[dramanda]

I had really wanted to find out the results today. I didn't expect to, but I wanted to.

Just putting that out there.

Haha, ditto.

[synecdoche]

I'm in favour of getting rid of the passing-through-schools bit, not because I think it will level the playing field but because a few people I have known have been royally screwed by the multi-tiered process. In one case, three of the department's top five candidates (including numbers 1 and 2) were NOT forwarded to Ottawa after the rankings were ignored by the faculty of graduate studies. The professors were pretty angry and there were meetings and complaints and handwringing but nothing ever actually happened with it--grad studies sort of said "Yes, we screwed up" in the private meetings with students and professors, and then publicly released a document that said they did the right thing. Of the others who were not in the department's top five who got forwarded on, none of them won a SSHRC. The others who were in the top five did. This case isn't so much a problem with applying through schools but rather a problem with schools that seem to misunderstand the system when applications get to SSHRC.

At the same time, though, people who are at university's have a big leg up just from the fact that they can consult with professors and develop their applications with much more one-on-one feedback. I'd feel far less confident in my own application if I hadn't gone through 14 drafts or so, getting feedback from a variety of profs on each.

[dramanda]

At the same time, though, people who are at university's have a big leg up just from the fact that they can consult with professors and develop their applications with much more one-on-one feedback. I'd feel far less confident in my own application if I hadn't gone through 14 drafts or so, getting feedback from a variety of profs on each.

Ha! I applied through my university and got no feedback until I was all done. Maybe my department just sucks though....

[jouissance]

Ha! I applied through my university and got no feedback until I was all done. Maybe my department just sucks though....

That is absolutely ridiculous, I can't believe that your supervisor wasn't helping you! Most departments realize that they have a vested interest in their students' success with SSHRC and act accordingly.

[dramanda]

That is absolutely ridiculous, I can't believe that your supervisor wasn't helping you! Most departments realize that they have a vested interest in their students' success with SSHRC and act accordingly.

If you knew my supervisor, you would understand

All I got was a "this is good" when I showed her the final draft.

EDIT: in the interest of full disclosure, I am leaving the department for my PhD, so maybe that had something to do with it. Although if I get it, it will still raise their quota for next year....

[ogopogo]

I had really wanted to find out the results today. I didn't expect to, but I wanted to.

Just putting that out there.

I was just hoping they would release the stats. That felt sort of realistic and would show us that they were actually done. But yeah, it sure would have been nice to not spend another weekend waiting. We're doing a pretty good job of growing this thread, in spite of a complete and utter lack of any news for phds, but sooner or later we're going to run out of things to talk about while we're waiting.

[Cree8tiveGyal]

I was just hoping they would release the stats. That felt sort of realistic and would show us that they were actually done. But yeah, it sure would have been nice to not spend another weekend waiting. We're doing a pretty good job of growing this thread, in spite of a complete and utter lack of any news for phds, but sooner or later we're going to run out of things to talk about while we're waiting.

Agreed!...lol... I just love reading the various theories cooked up on this totally impossible-to-be-pinned-down selection process!!!...

[canadiangirl78]

This is completely unverifiable; but a faculty member who asked me today if I had heard about my results said he heard that a doctoral student had gotten his results (albeit not at our university). I tried to tell the guy that it didn't make sense since SSHRC themselves said they wouldn't release anything until the week of the 11th (and to the universities not even us).. Has anyone here heard something??