SSHRC

[dramanda]

No one has any news today?

[jasper.milvain]

I totally understand about the prestige that Vanier winners bring to a school and how they are more important than the MA awards. I am just saying that with all the press they are doing for the Vanier winners they couldn't just spare a few minutes to say hey you got the award will send more information later. I know that everyone keeps saying I am a shoe in but I won't really feel better until I know for sure!

I hear you. I couldn't let it go until I had the letter in my hand, even though I knew my result. I just wish that I had! In retrospect, it was so much stress for no real purpose. So I guess I'm hoping that other people can be less neurotic than I was. Life's too short.

[annabella]

Thanks for your advice everyone. My department still had no info and I just happened to be on campus today so dropped by the FGS office and explained my situation ... and received the good news that I got an MA SSHRC

Now, my next problem is that the letters apparently aren't being sent out today. How might you all suggest that I accept my award without being able to sign the letter as I am leaving to go overseas on Tuesday?

[S_mo]

I finally got the news today from my department! YEAH!! Congrats to everyone. I'm thinking of the Phd's now! Good luck!

[LyndaD]

Thanks for your advice everyone. My department still had no info and I just happened to be on campus today so dropped by the FGS office and explained my situation ... and received the good news that I got an MA SSHRC

Now, my next problem is that the letters apparently aren't being sent out today. How might you all suggest that I accept my award without being able to sign the letter as I am leaving to go overseas on Tuesday?

Am I wrong in thinking that there is a form you can download online to accept your SSHRC? Here you go: http://sshrc.ca/site/using-utiliser/gui ... s-eng.aspx

You fill in forms 1.1 AND 1.2. I believe that's what you need to accept money and go. Double check with your school that they have your bank info, and that things are fine on their end, and the money should just be dropped into your account when your payments start.

[jasper.milvain]

When I got mine, I had to give the notice of award I received in the mail to the graduate studies office before they'd start paying me. So have whoever is checking your mail open letters from the government and run the notice of award over to campus for you. Then get them a bottle of wine.

[jferreir]

Now, my next problem is that the letters apparently aren't being sent out today. How might you all suggest that I accept my award without being able to sign the letter as I am leaving to go overseas on Tuesday?

Do you mean that SSHRC letters (i.e. official results) are not being mailed out today? If so, who told you this information and did they give you the actual mailing date?

Unfortunately, my UG university isn't the best with releasing information, so I'm pretty much waiting on that damn letter to arrive. I don't think I can endure another weekend of uncertainty!

[annabella]

The lady at FGS I spoke to today told me that the official letters from SSHRC will be mailed out today. To be honest, I don't know how credible she is - she also told me she had no access to the secure site and when I showed up at her office there was a hard copy of the list right in front of her.

[annabella]

When I got mine, I had to give the notice of award I received in the mail to the graduate studies office before they'd start paying me. So have whoever is checking your mail open letters from the government and run the notice of award over to campus for you. Then get them a bottle of wine.

I will be returning from my internship at the end of July but am not starting funding until September. Do you think I can wait until I get back to send them the acceptance of the award and the banking info forms?

[jferreir]

I will be returning from my internship at the end of July but am not starting funding until September. Do you think I can wait until I get back to send them the acceptance of the award and the banking info forms?

If I remember correctly, you have exactly 4 weeks to accept your offer...

[jaivirdi]

So everyone so far who has received news of their SSHRC acceptance has heard from either their department or FGS, am I correct? So for us doctorates who aren't around campus, this means an even longer wait? Or else resort to email harrassment?

[monkeybrain]

So everyone so far who has received news of their SSHRC acceptance has heard from either their department or FGS, am I correct? So for us doctorates who aren't around campus, this means an even longer wait? Or else resort to email harrassment?

Everyone who has heard so far is an MA (or going into their MA), so I would hold off the harassing until Monday or Tuesday. I'm with you in the anxious-PhD-waiting boat.

[Neatgirl]

This is very unofficial, but I heard from a prof that having already received a major award does increase your chances of getting one again. Kind of a "rich get richer" scenario, but he said that reviewers generally have the impression that if you were good enough to be "chosen" once, you're good enough again. However, he and I were discussing OGS (master's) first, doctoral SSHRC next (my situation). I know SSHRC actually awards points for getting external awards previously during the review process. I don't know as much about OGS's review policies, so I can't really comment on the SSHRC first, OGS next scenario you're in.

I agree with dramanda and my own experience is that this is true. Like ashleyv (and congratulations by the way!), I had a Master's SSHRC in the first year of my MSc program and ended up getting an OGS for the second year. I'm starting a PhD in the fall and have been notified that I was successful for the OGS once again. (Although, like so many others on this board, I'm anxiously waiting on the SSHRC doctoral results and am hoping that I will get to turn down the OGS in lieu of the SSHRC!)

[Neatgirl]

I have to thank everyone for participating on this board. I have been anxiously waiting the results and very frustrated with the lack of communication about what is going on. I was very happy when I found this board. It's reassuring to know that I'm not the only one in this boat. I'll be checking regularly to see what's happening, especially at the beginning of next week. In the meantime, good luck all!

[sylvinka]

This is very unofficial, but I heard from a prof that having already received a major award does increase your chances of getting one again. Kind of a "rich get richer" scenario, but he said that reviewers generally have the impression that if you were good enough to be "chosen" once, you're good enough again. However, he and I were discussing OGS (master's) first, doctoral SSHRC next (my situation). I know SSHRC actually awards points for getting external awards previously during the review process. I don't know as much about OGS's review policies, so I can't really comment on the SSHRC first, OGS next scenario you're in.

[jackassjim]

Yeah, maybe for you guys in Ontario. I got a fellowship for Master's from a local research centre in NL which is awarded only to 2 students annualy. It was 18,000$ for 2 years. Then when I started my PhD I got Dean's Fellowship from the Faculty of Medicine in the amount of 20,000$ for 4 years. I applied for SSHRC and these major awards were good for nothing. I had also several smaller awards, first-grade standing (undergrad in medicine). And you know what?: my application was evaluated by SSHRC by 5 points out of 30! Till now I don't know why. I was so upset I did not apply for SSHRC for next two years. You are lucky to have OGS. Here you get SSHRC or likely nothing. So be happy with OGS if you don't get SSHRC.

Well there was obviously something else that was wrong with your application if you got only 5 points out of 30. Maybe your research design was flawed, your grant application was poorly written, or your letters of recommendation were less than stellar. Instead of snobbing SSHRC for two years, you should have discussed the issue with some of your mentors. They probably could have helped you readjust your future grant application in order to ensure that this would not happen again. The process is not totally random, there are steps you can take to make your application better.

Back on topic, I agree with previous posters. Getting other grants certainly has a snowball effect. It won't put you on top of the pile automatically (other applicants also got grants in the past), but it certainly can help committee members make choices between otherwise similarly qualified applicants.

[ogopogo]

There might be some 'rich get richer' going on, but you also have to consider that most selection committees use similar criteria for judging applications and, generally speaking, you will have similar qualifications from application to application, as will the other people you are competing against. The size of the pool and the appeal of different proposals to different audiences will vary, but still, if you have strong grades and experience, you are always more likely to win than someone who doesn't have those things. I figure that this could mostly explain why some people win lots, and others not so much. That is, unless one of the criteria is having won awards and distinctions in the past (like SSHRC's "excellence in past academic results as demonstrated by transcript, awards and distinctions"), then obviously having already won an award or two will help.

[sylvinka]

Well there was obviously something else that was wrong with your application if you got only 5 points out of 30. Maybe your research design was flawed, your grant application was poorly written, or your letters of recommendation were less than stellar. Instead of snobbing SSHRC for two years, you should have discussed the issue with some of your mentors. They probably could have helped you readjust your future grant application in order to ensure that this would not happen again. The process is not totally random, there are steps you can take to make your application better.

Back on topic, I agree with previous posters. Getting other grants certainly has a snowball effect. It won't put you on top of the pile automatically (other applicants also got grants in the past), but it certainly can help committee members make choices between otherwise similarly qualified applicants.

You must be kidding me! You think that after getting two major research scholarships and several minor (piror to applying for SSHRC), I don't know how to write a research proposal?! Even my supervisor was shocked from my result and we were convinced that someone misplaced my papers or something. But since SSHRC is not willing to discuss any decisions, we got nowhere. And BTW I get all my proposals and papers reviewed by a professional proofreader. In addition, I got now 9 papers published in peer-reviewed journal papers. So please be considerate when you pass judgements like that on your fellows.

[dramanda]

You must be kidding me! You think that after getting two major research scholarships and several minor (piror to applying for SSHRC), I don't know how to write a research proposal?! Even my supervisor was shocked from my result and we were convinced that someone misplaced my papers or something. But since SSHRC is not willing to discuss any decisions, we got nowhere. And BTW I get all my proposals and papers reviewed by a professional proofreader. In addition, I got now 9 papers published in peer-reviewed journal papers. So please be considerate when you pass judgements like that on your fellows.

Sylvinka,

I think jackassjim has some good points. From my understanding, the SSHRC adjudication committee scores you on each of the following factors:

- past academic results, demonstrated by transcripts, awards and distinctions;

- the program of study and its potential contribution to the advancement of knowledge;

- relevant professional and academic experience, including research training, as demonstrated by conference presentations and scholarly publications;

- two written evaluations from referees; and

- the departmental appraisal (for those registered at Canadian universities)

Even if your previous awards and distinctions were COMPLETELY ignored, a score of 5/30 means that there were some problems in other aspects of the application as well. This is not meant to sound accusatory, but you should know that those 5 bulleted points listed above are fairly evenly weighted by the judges.

[sylvinka]

There might be some 'rich get richer' going on, but you also have to consider that most selection committees use similar criteria for judging applications and, generally speaking, you will have similar qualifications from application to application, as will the other people you are competing against. The size of the pool and the appeal of different proposals to different audiences will vary, but still, if you have strong grades and experience, you are always more likely to win than someone who doesn't have those things. I figure that this could mostly explain why some people win lots, and others not so much. That is, unless one of the criteria is having won awards and distinctions in the past (like SSHRC's "excellence in past academic results as demonstrated by transcript, awards and distinctions"), then obviously having already won an award or two will help.

Yes, ogopogo, but also when some university is given a quota of 40 and the other one only 8, you may have a better application then 30 people from a bigger university but your problem is that you are number 9. Being in NL, I find it always extremely tough competing with people from big universities as if the name of the university provides some guarantee that those guys are better. I ended up here since my husband is teaching here, so I don't have luxury to choose and study somewhere else. Anyways, let's remain optimistic.

[sylvinka]

Sylvinka,

I think jackassjim has some good points. From my understanding, the SSHRC adjudication committee scores you on each of the following factors:

- past academic results, demonstrated by transcripts, awards and distinctions;

- the program of study and its potential contribution to the advancement of knowledge;

- relevant professional and academic experience, including research training, as demonstrated by conference presentations and scholarly publications;

- two written evaluations from referees; and

- the departmental appraisal (for those registered at Canadian universities)

Even if your previous awards and distinctions were COMPLETELY ignored, a score of 5/30 means that there were some problems in other aspects of the application as well. This is not meant to sound accusatory, but you should know that those 5 bulleted points listed above are fairly evenly weighted by the judges.

[dramanda]

Yes, ogopogo, but also when some university is given a quota of 40 and the other one only 8, you may have a better application then 30 people from a bigger university but your problem is that you are number 9. Being in NL, I find it always extremely tough competing with people from big universities as if the name of the university provides some guarantee that those guys are better. I ended up here since my husband is teaching here, so I don't have luxury to choose and study somewhere else. Anyways, let's remain optimistic.

Well no, it's not just that "the name of the university provides some guarantee that those guys are better". SSHRC determines the allotment for each university based on the number of winners from the previous year multiplied by some coefficient (because, as we know, there are more A-list applications than awards). If a university is able to attract top students and submit more successful SSHRC applications, they will have a larger allotment for the following year.

The idea, generally speaking, is that the #9 applicant at a school with an allotment of 8 will be relatively equally qualified as the #41 applicant at a school with an allotment of 40.

[ogopogo]

Yes, ogopogo, but also when some university is given a quota of 40 and the other one only 8, you may have a better application then 30 people from a bigger university but your problem is that you are number 9. Being in NL, I find it always extremely tough competing with people from big universities as if the name of the university provides some guarantee that those guys are better. I ended up here since my husband is teaching here, so I don't have luxury to choose and study somewhere else. Anyways, let's remain optimistic.

But think about how many other applications people from big research-intensive universities are competing against in the first round - they probably don't have much better odds than people from smaller places. Plus the quotas are based on the uni's past results in the competition, so if you have 8 this year and they all win (because they are just that good) then you will have a higher quota next year.

I agree on the optimism front though.

[dramanda]

Hi dramanda, if you also think that I am writing crapy proposals, then how come I got Dean's Fellowship from our med school in the amount of 20,000$ for 4 years? I submitted the same proposal. In addition, my proposal ranked number 1 in the School of Medicine when submitted to the School of Graduate Studies. And if it was crapy, why SGS would choose it and send it to SSHRC? Is it so difficult to acknowledge that mistakes can happen and SSHRC messed up my file?

Um..wow. I never said you wrote a crappy proposal, and I didn't belittle your Dean's Fellowship....

With the number of different people that rate any SSHRC proposal (I believe it's 3 different judges) I think it's pretty unlikely that all three made a mistake. If something was missing from your file (let's say your transcripts or a reference letter), I'm pretty sure SSHRC would've contacted your SGS to have this looked at.

[jackassjim]

Yes, ogopogo, but also when some university is given a quota of 40 and the other one only 8, you may have a better application then 30 people from a bigger university but your problem is that you are number 9. Being in NL, I find it always extremely tough competing with people from big universities as if the name of the university provides some guarantee that those guys are better. I ended up here since my husband is teaching here, so I don't have luxury to choose and study somewhere else. Anyways, let's remain optimistic.

I understand that the quotas might be a problem for people from small provinces, but I believe that your point about "as if the name of the university provides some guarantee that those guys are better" is off-mark. If I'm not mistaken (I might be), the quotas are allocated with regard to past results, but also partly on a "per capita" basis. This would mean that even if the quota at your university is smaller than at mine, you would stand the same chance of passing the threshold as if you were here. Given the extreme sensitivities that go along with living in a federation such as ours, I am pretty certain that SSHRC has thought through the allocation of quotas so as to ensure that people from smaller provinces are not at a disadvantage. (Given the economic imbalances between provinces, my bet would even that, if anything, students from the east might be advantaged in the process. Although, please understand that this is all speculation on my part).

On my previous point, I have to apologize for the somewhat dry tone of my intervention. I probably should have been nicer. However, I do stand by my statement that there must have been something wrong with your file. An accident might have happened with your file or something, but given the rather thorough review process that files undergo, it would be quite unlikely.

Um..wow. I never said you wrote a crappy proposal, and I didn't belittle your Dean's Fellowship....

Note that I also did no such thing. Your achievements sound impressive. I'm sure you're a great scholar, there is not need to be defensive. We are all in this together. I wish you the best of luck with this grant. It sure is a lot of money!