Best Plan B: Post-Bacc or Master's?

[starstuff]

In the midst of what seems to be the primary month of interview invites for Neuro PhD programs, I've realized that with one rejection and no invites thus far, it's time to start putting plan B into place.

Short Version: With a low undergraduate GPA, what would best improve my chances of admission to a Neuro PhD program: 1) a science post-bacc to boost my undergraduate GPA, or 2) a Master's degree to show that I can succeed in graduate level work. Would doing both simultaneously be feasible? Or, would it be more beneficial if I did one or the other part-time while continuing a research assistant position?

Back story: I had resisted applying to a Master's program or Post-bacc until because I am completely on my own financially and don't have the money or any family safety net onto which I can accumulate debt comfortably..... but it seems like I'll need to take the debt risk because I can't imagine any other way into a PhD program, nor can I imagine a life without doing neuroscience research at the PhD level.

I have 6+ years of neuroscience research experience, a year-long independent research thesis, great GRE and subject test scores, a strong SOP and strong LORs... the kiss of death for my application is my GPA. I did go to a very strong, highly ranked undergraduate institution, majored in Neuroscience and took as many challenging, upper division courses as I could. I also worked 25 hours a week in a research lab and filled the rest of my schedule with fascinating extracurricular activities... I don't know what I was thinking at the time, but for some reason all throughout undergrad I had the idea that GPA didn't matter; that as long as I truly learned in and outside of the classroom and initiated innovative research, I would be able to pursue PhD study. Clearly, I was wrong. I ended up with a GPA less than 3.0, low enough to not make the initial cut at most schools. I am currently employed full-time doing research, but feel like I need to do something to improve my chances in PhD admissions for next year. What do you think would be the best route to improve my application profile while still sustaining myself financially?

Thanks!

[thebigbang]

Man, I feel like I'm in the same boat. I am also applying to neuro PhD programs. Is this your first round of applications? This is my second time around. I specifically targeted good fit programs that do not have hard cutoffs. Other strategy changes for me were joining a better lab, getting more publications, and a more focused idea of what I want to do. I also learned how to program.

If I don't get in this year, I'm going for a master's program to make myself a more competitive applicant. Even if that does not lead to a PhD program, it will put me in a better position to get a better, perhaps more stable lab job.

In regards to sustaining yourself financially, I hear you. A graduate education, whether PhD or master's program, is an investment in your career. Sometimes the future benefits outweigh the upfront costs. If this is something you truly want to do, make it happen through any means necessary.

[armyofbieber]

What Master's programs are you considering and where? Very few schools offer neuro Masters. (Pitt is one that does.)

[greenertea]

Personally, I wouldn't do either Masters or post-bac and just keep working. If you're working in an academic lab now, maybe try to start networking with the faculty in your department. I know people who have worked as techs with low GPAs and test scores who have been able to get a little nudge into the program because they've worked in the department for a while.

I would also have a sit down with your PI now and talk about what you can do to improve your chances at graduate school in the next cycle. They will no better than anyone else. If you're working not working on an independent project now, maybe your professor can give you one and give you a chance to submit a first author paper. You didn't mention your publication history but I think it could make the difference if you don't have any publications currently.

Also, I notice all the schools you applied to are top tier. Maybe apply to a few more mid-tier schools if you don't make it in this round. Although the prestige of a school is important, if you work under the right professor you can have just as successful a career as someone who graduated from an Ivy. Where you do your post-doc also makes a big impact on your career so where you go for grad school is not necessarily fate-sealing.

This is just my opinion though, take it with a grain of salt. But personally, although I can't imagine a life where I wouldn't want to get a PhD, I wouldn't go into debt for it. The stipend you get as a grad student and your eventual post doc salary will make it very hard to pay off. That's 8 years minimum of carrying around debt, if not more. If I had to choose though between Post-bac and masters, I guess I'd pick masters and fight like hell to get a tuition waiver w/ a teaching or research assistantship.

I wouldn't give up hope yet though for this cycle of apps!

[starstuff]

Thanks so much for your replies!

@thebigbang: I'm glad to hear from someone in a similar boat. It sounds like you have made some great changes since last application cycle, so hopefully this will be your year! Moving to a "better lab" sounds like a great place to have started. Do you mean better in terms of better fit for you, or one that publishes more, etc.? Either way, that's a brave jump in this economy, so congrats! This is my first application cycle, so I definitely have a lot to learn and am definitely prepared to apply again next year.

@armyofbieber: The lack of Neuroscience Master's programs has been a real concern, so I've also been considering SMPs and systems bio/phys MS programs. Northwestern has a 1 year Neuroscience MS with thesis that would be ideal, but I'm also considering master's programs at Georgetown, Drexel, Temple, Boston U., etc. I'll definitely look into UPitt's program now, too. Thank you for the suggestion!

@greenertea: Thank you sincerely for your input; that's a lot to think about! I am in an academic lab now, and though I have been able to initiate a few things and take the lead on large parts of our major study, the regulations governing the type of research we do (human clinical neuroimaging) make it very difficult to start an independent project. Nevertheless, you make a great point and I will talk to my PI ASAP to figure out what is possible. I am currently drafting a paper and there are several others papers in the lab in the works on which I should get some authorship, so hopefully my CV will be beefed up well by next year.

Applying to top-tier schools was a decision I struggled with also, as I wanted to make sure I only applied to schools strong in what I want to study, namely human neuroimaging. Unfortunately a school without imaging equipment would make it impossible to do my research, and it seems that the large majority of the schools who can afford to buy the multi-million dollar MRI equipment necessary for this research also happen to be way up in the top-tier. Prestige means little to me; I would be perfectly happy at a mid-low tier school with sufficient imaging equipment. I'm not sure how to get un-stuck from this point... perhaps I just need to expand my geographic tolerance and look back at southern and rural schools that I had previously dismissed.

Believe me, I had never seriously considered carrying that kind of debt until a week ago, and just the prospect freaks me out. Thank you, also, for the encouragement on this year's apps... I guess in a few weeks I'll be able to evaluate things much better.

[kgumps2012]

@starstuff I know what you are going through right now because I was in the same boat 2 years ago. I had average GRE scores, a 3.3 GPA (3.0 in my major) and really no lab experience. Although your stats are much better than mine were (except the GPA), I know these PHD programs are insanely competitive. I ended up deciding to bite the bullet and take out loans to get through a 2 year master's program at what I believe to be a decent institution (Thomas Jefferson). I now have 3.71 GPA and have significantly increased my GRE scores and have lab experience (though no papers yet but my thesis is promising). Doing a Master's also gave me more time to grow as a scientist and narrow in on what I want to study. Basically what I am trying to say is getting a Master's, I believe, is worth the extra debt. It will pay off in the future. And if you can get paid while in school, even better! (although I dont get tuition remission, I do have a job in a lab where I am able to make money to put towards my student loans even though they were deferred. another bonus to biding your time in a master's program)

[SCellNeuro]

I would guess that to get into top schools you need at least a 3.0, and 3.5 in your major, AND have a publication. Although, if you get a top level publication (cell, nat, sci) with middle authorship and your letters are stellar, you probably could do without any masters work,

Where are you applying, and how low is gpa?

Good luck!

[prettyuff1]

I had a less than stellar undergrad gpa and was interested in phd in pharmacology. I went into an MS program at a decent school in biology and got heavily involved in research and as a teaching assistant. I made sure I got involved in just

About everything science based and got good letters of recommendation.

I think one of the things you have to be ok with is rejection even though you have worked hard to prove yourself but are still held in low ranks because of undergrad issues. I was accepted to only school with decently competitive GRE scores (1300) and a graduate gpa of 3.63. I would also amend the type of program you apply to. While neuroscience may be your first choice, perhaps you could consider a biology program and tailor your phd research around neuroscience based project. I also took a hit on the schools

I wanted to apply to. I knew schools like UChicago were out for me because there was way too much competition. There r ways to get to the degree you want but you have to be focused and consider alternative pathways