ewurgler Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 I couldn't open the michigan info, but I saw the chronicle stuff, and those are definitely higher than the UCs. UC assistant professor (across disciplines, I think) is around 42-46k. If you make it distinguished prof, you will see 6 figures. Pretty dismal, considering the staff usually make more than that after a couple of years. It is bad pay, but departments can often offset this by offering you other cool things once you are established and sough after: no teaching for a few years, a lab of your own, lots of grad student minions, pay your mortgage for a while, a hefty relocation allowance. No one goes into academia for money. If that is what you want, get out now.
frankdux Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 If you look carefully, you see that most of the people listed with a 100k+ salary are administrators, and even the teachers listed have been there 25+ years. I'm sure there are exceptions, so you don't need to retort back with that. WRONG if you look even more carefully, the majority of those making $100k are in fact teachers. yes there are plenty of administrators as well, but typically the administrators are the ones making closer to 150-200k. and there are noticably less of those. First of all, you're not talking about middle class the way most of us do. The New Trier district is in Evanston, an arguably higher class and higher educated community. the entire chicago suburban sprawl is FULL of schools that pay comparably well. peruse the site and find out for yourself. The point is, teachers don't make that much money. Most start at 30k. Profs can make 100k toward the end of their career unless they're in a science field, then they make much more. ok. fair. but my point would be that if you want to be a teacher and you want to make decent money, you certainly can. not all teachers are paid peanuts. unfortunately, making decent money as a teacher is heavily dependent on these three criteria: 1. having at least a masters degree 2. teaching high school 3. teaching in a decent suburb in a decent state and so of course, the majority of teachers do not have these three things going for them.
t_ruth Posted February 2, 2009 Author Posted February 2, 2009 No one goes into academia for money. If that is what you want, get out now. I made a point to state that wasn't what this thread was about.
ewurgler Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 I made a point to state that wasn't what this thread was about. t_ruth: that was in no way directed to you. I know your grad school intentions are pure It was just a general statement for the uninitiated grad school aspirant who reads this thread.
miratrix Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 I would guess that $40K is closer to average in disciplines and at schools where you're not likely to get a $30K stipend, so whichever end of the spectrum you're on, grad school pays a lot less than a TT job. I know that at my undergrad, the highest paid professors were people in computer science and economics, because the school needed to make it worth their while to give up far more lucrative jobs and prospects outside of academia. On the other hand, the opportunity cost wasn't as high for people in the humanities, so their salaries tended to be lower. It also looks like stipends tend to be lower in the humanities than sciences, although this varies as much by school as by discipline.
IvyHope Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 WRONG if you look even more carefully, the majority of those making $100k are in fact teachers. yes there are plenty of administrators as well, but typically the administrators are the ones making closer to 150-200k. and there are noticably less of those. the entire chicago suburban sprawl is FULL of schools that pay comparably well. peruse the site and find out for yourself. ok. fair. but my point would be that if you want to be a teacher and you want to make decent money, you certainly can. not all teachers are paid peanuts. unfortunately, making decent money as a teacher is heavily dependent on these three criteria: 1. having at least a masters degree 2. teaching high school 3. teaching in a decent suburb in a decent state and so of course, the majority of teachers do not have these three things going for them. Wow, Frank. I guess you told me. You must know it all! I guess my 10+ years in the field of education (practice, policy, and theory) and my doctoral studies on it are what's worth peanuts here, huh? ;-) You're right. Teachers make 100k. Whatever you say. ;-)
frankdux Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 and with all of that education and experience you still have to rely on sarcasm to try and prove your point? (which also doesn't disprove anything i even said in my last post.) :wink:
misterpat Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 I'm from a fairly well-to-do suburb of Chicago, and a handful of our teachers made $100k+. But I think they have MA degrees and were with the school for like 20+ years.
IvyHope Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 I'm from a fairly well-to-do suburb of Chicago, and a handful of our teachers made $100k+. But I think they have MA degrees and were with the school for like 20+ years. sure. A handful is believable- and you can look for yourself and see that they all have 20-25+ years (at least according to the resource Frankdux provided). Still isn't likely in most places. A suburb of one of the larger American cities is not the average...those jobs are very competitive.
gadhelyn Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Y'know what's the worst part about all this? We're spending lots of money to get in, then living on next to nothing for at least half a decade, then we're going to finally get a job in which we're so specialized that we still don't get a lot of money. OOoo, wait, I know this comic!
misterpat Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 sure. A handful is believable- and you can look for yourself and see that they all have 20-25+ years (at least according to the resource Frankdux provided). Still isn't likely in most places. A suburb of one of the larger American cities is not the average...those jobs are very competitive. Definitely. But I am still surprised at some of the people I graduated with who landed jobs at our HS. If THEY got those competitive jobs, I'd hate to see who they turned away...
IvyHope Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Definitely. But I am still surprised at some of the people I graduated with who landed jobs at our HS. If THEY got those competitive jobs, I'd hate to see who they turned away... Sometimes it's about who you know. Great comic. And very true. Not exaggerated at all! In fact, at my current institution, the football coach makes more than that!
misterpat Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Haha yeah. I think our coach makes 1.3 mil a year, including endorsements and media stuff. I'm glad too, he's done well.
frankdux Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 sure. A handful is believable- and you can look for yourself and see that they all have 20-25+ years (at least according to the resource Frankdux provided). many. but others reach that point before 15 years if they start out with a masters degree. Still isn't likely in most places. A suburb of one of the larger American cities is not the average...those jobs are very competitive. as i've already explained.
timuralp Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 UC assistant professor (across disciplines, I think) is around 42-46k. If you make it distinguished prof, you will see 6 figures. This has spun out of control (the discussion that ensued). Anyway, this varies by discipline very highly. For instance, in 2007 two assistant professors at the University of Massachusetts Amherst in computer science earned 122k and 117k (http://www.bostonherald.com/projects/pa ... e.ASC/UMS/ - it's hard to search by department, since you can't do that...but the two I looked up were Corner and Fu, if you want to verify). They are assistant professors, not tenured. A 3rd year prof made 118k (look up Diao; also assistant). Obviously, this varies by state and department... For comparison, an assistant professor in anthropology (Sugarmen) made 72k in 2007. A conversation about the discrepancy between sciences and humanities is a whole different topic and let's not go there...
drpsych Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 You went to New Trier?! I went to Stevenson! P.S. I haven't read the entire thread, but that area, high school teachers make more than the usual high school teacher does (even public), so I don't know that you should be citing that as the prototypical high school teacher salary.
zhukora Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 UC assistant professor (across disciplines, I think) is around 42-46k. If you make it distinguished prof, you will see 6 figures. Not true. I'm sure it varies significantly based on location (i.e. cost of living) and field, but I have had to process a lot of UC faculty salary data for a couple of more technically-based departments at the university I work for, and in my departments, not even the most junior of faculty made less than 80k. Granted this is for technical departments rather than humanities or social science (where I'd be shocked if it wasn't much, much lower), and the university where I am is in a pretty high-rent area. Some of the most prestigious bow-deeply-and-kiss-their-hem faculty make up around 200k, but there are maybe three of those between the two departments whose data I've handled. Most seemed to top out around 100-125k by the time they reached tenure. Pretty dismal, considering the staff usually make more than that after a couple of years. Also not true. If you were a senior administrator (and there are precious few of those), you might break six figures, but about half of the staff I know have been working for the UCs in some capacity or other since graduating from college (or high school) themselves, and even the ones who are looking at retirement in perhaps 10 years have never seen, and will never see, a six-figure salary. That said, the staff benefits (health, etc) are freakin' awesome. So that does make up for it to a decent degree.
ewurgler Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Not true. I'm sure it varies significantly based on location (i.e. cost of living) and field, but I have had to process a lot of UC faculty salary data for a couple of more technically-based departments at the university I work for, and in my departments, not even the most junior of faculty made less than 80k. Granted this is for technical departments rather than humanities or social science (where I'd be shocked if it wasn't much, much lower), and the university where I am is in a pretty high-rent area. Some of the most prestigious bow-deeply-and-kiss-their-hem faculty make up around 200k, but there are maybe three of those between the two departments whose data I've handled. Most seemed to top out around 100-125k by the time they reached tenure. Also not true. If you were a senior administrator (and there are precious few of those), you might break six figures, but about half of the staff I know have been working for the UCs in some capacity or other since graduating from college (or high school) themselves, and even the ones who are looking at retirement in perhaps 10 years have never seen, and will never see, a six-figure salary. That said, the staff benefits (health, etc) are freakin' awesome. So that does make up for it to a decent degree. http://www.ucop.edu/acadadv/acadpers/tab0405/table1.pdf I'm sure many technical department augment salary with other pay, but I know that social sciences and humanities assistant professor 1 does not make 80. The link is from 04 and 05 but I doubt it has gone up much.
Dinali Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Are high school vs. university salaries even comparable? At a high school, the teachers go there to teach. At a university, the professors join a faculty to do research. Teaching is a part of their duties in the quid pro quo relationship they share with the university. The university gets instructors, advisors, and the reputation that comes from having top-notch research coming out of its campus, thereby enabling it to recruit the best candidates. The professor gets a research facility, qualified research assistants (ie grad students), sabaticals, tenure (hopefully), and a little bit of money. The stipend that goes into recruiting the best grad students can be considered part of the professor's salary too, since he or she is the one benefitting from the assistanceship. To prepare for my application I've spoken with a good many professors about a career in academia, and none of them put money at higher than fourth or so on a list of things to consider about potential professorships.
rising_star Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Profs can (and typically do) substantially supplement their salary bu consulting with private industry, if their home institution allows it. The ability to do this is very much discipline-dependent.
michigan girl Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 High school teachers in wealthy middle-class school districts will earn six-figures.
boneh3ad Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 Yeah, wealthy middle-class districts in like CA or NY or something, not in the midwest, that is for sure. Maybe like in Lake Forest, IL or something. I know none of the teachers at my school made that kind of money, or most if not all of the schools in my district when I was in high school.
Stories Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 Totally depends on the field. Professional schools pay way better. Seems the consensus is that science and health fields pay by far the most (at UMich). Looked like the majority of the assistant-level professors made in the $70k-range followed by upwards of $120-$150k for full professors.
socialpsych Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 If you look at the highest earners at Michigan, it's medicine, law, and business, upward of 200K.
teaganc Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 http://www.bostonherald.com/projects/pa ... e.ASC/UMS/ Excellent link! I've just discovered what my partner's new advisor makes... and it's almost 200k. My partner's stipend? 14k. I should think that, at least for him, this disproves the whole, your stipend will be better than your salary thing.
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