Schools on the rise

[hobokennojokin]

I wanted to get a sense of which schools people thought were "up and coming", in the sense that in the past 3-5 years they have been producing high quality job placements, doing highly lauded research (and by virtue publications), have young productive faculty, etc. The schools I have heard this most about from both faculty and other graduate students are NYU, UT-Austin, and Notre Dame (positioned to make a push into top 25). Not my own personal judgment, just what I've heard. I wonder if any of you have also heard this about other schools? If so, which ones?

And if anyone wants to venture a guess about which schools are on their way down... well.. I guess that can go here too (anybody this bold!? haha)

[sociology27]

This is a reallly interesting threat. As someone who applied to programs in the 30s and 40s (as well as top 20 ones), I'd like to know how the scene/prestige might change in the next 6-8 years.

[ThisSlumgullionIsSoVapid]

The two departments that I applied to that were venerated by my professors as up-and-commers were UCI and ND. Certainly there are others but this was feedback I received when I had two of my professors look over my program and POI list.

[RefurbedScientist]

I would echo the above: UCI and Notre Dame. Now, I only think of those because I'm into social movements and both programs have rocking faculty, young and old. I also think that research centers are a big part of it, as they attract attention and stimulate productivity for both faculty and grad students. The benefit of research centers may not be immediately reflected in USNWR rankings, but I think they can draw talented grad students who will go on to productive careers. Moreover, research centers (good ones) gain a program notoriety among people in the discipline over time, which is obviously a big factor in rankings. On top of that, I think what ND is doing with its new blog (Mobilizing Ideas) is really interesting and can only mean good things for the program's reputation. ND honestly would have been one of my top choices, except for its current spot on the rankings and it's geographical isolation (I've been to South Bend a couple times for conferences and didn't love it). While I am confident it will move up, I don't think I want to be in the group of recent grads fighting that uphill battle. That being said, anyone who goes there will get a top of the line training in their key sub fields. As for UCI, I think it may as well be considered a top of the line program right now, but it will take a few years for the rankings to reflect this. Part of this is going to be successive cohorts of newly minted PhDs on the job market. A UCI grads start getting "hired up" by higher ranked programs, UCI's rank will improve. I think that's only a matter of time. I for one am seriously considering UCI (if I get in) over much higher ranked programs (where I'm already in) because the fit is amazing and the faculty and affiliated centers are dreamy. When it comes to social movements, at least, I would put UCI in the top 5 programs easily (number one according to my specific research interests).

As for programs that might be in a position to fall in the rankings, that's really hard to say. UCSB? That's wild speculation, but they did just lose Jennifer Earl to Arizona, and she is a major player in both social movements and, increasingly, Internet stuff (an understudied topic in soc). She is definitely productive, and losing her won't help UCSB. On top of that, I think we have to watch out for all of the UC schools and their funding situations.

As for top 25 programs, I've heard grumblings about Arizona on some fronts (very very thin slice data here), but maybe gaining Earl will help.

For anyone considering these schools, please do not take my impressions into consideration when weighing your choices. This is pure idle talk on an online forum. I wrote this on my iPhone. It's not career advice. Talk to people who would know better, and even then take any rumors with a grain of salt.

[sciencegirl]

Interesting forum... regarding the UC schools, I had done a lot of research into UCLA's program and it appears they are well positioned with the budget crisis, as their department had really planned for a downturn. In regards to being able to retain and hire faculty, they seem to have done a good job over the last few years, being able to actually hire new faculty and not having their superstars poached. Also, I'm going to venture on a limb here and say that I can't think of another program that has had better placement during the economic downturn/last 5 years: 2 placements at Chicago, 2 at UW Madison, and then others at Columbia, Michigan, Brown, Boulder, Yale, UCI, USC.. among others.. (I think its hard to judge if its "the most/best placement" though since some other programs don't list their placements as orderly and prominently as their website).

Another program that I think will really rise in the rankings would be USC... they were ranked 39 overall in 2009 by USNWR, but were ranked 3 in the area of gender.. but they have since been on a faculty hiring spree thanks to a recent $200 million grant to their hum/soc science school. Something like 7 new professors will be added since 2010? I know they hired 3-4 new professors in the sociology program since they got this grant in 2010, and they are currently in a search for 3 more tenure track positions right now according to their website. Who the heck does that in the great recession? If you are focusing on migration/immigration, and/or gender, it's an incredibly great program already. And I would venture to say that give it 5-10 more years, is probably going to strengthen its other fields and rise quite dramatically from #39 in the next few ranking cycles.

I would also to venture to say that Berkeley's lock on number 1 is probably ending soon.. anecdotally, I've heard that they are having a surprisingly hard time in the budget crisis and are facing a series of retirements that won't have the money to back up replacing them with equal stature superstars. For instance, I believe Barrie Thorne is retiring soon, but finding an assistant professor to replace her in the area of gender would be near impossible with the money they've been allotted. They only have 31 ladder in their department right now (compare that to 38 for UCLA, and 61 for UW Madison) - which was very surprising for me to learn when I was comparing all of them.

Anyway, those are my two cents... as I mentioned before I had a strong desire to move to California so I did a lot more research on the schools there. I didn't hear the best things about UCI actually (but if you are interested, PM-me). And ironically the school I did the least amount of research on was Stanford which I can now consider as an option (still in shock)... I was of course online all day yesterday researching their department.. I can't figure out how their recent grad placement has been (slight concern). I also wonder somewhat how they retain their top-5 ranking (where Yale is "top-20"). I guess they do have their superstars in social psychology and political sociology/social movements. My parents also wondered if silicon valley sucks up their top graduates for $$ careers in consulting which is why they don't advertise placement as much on their website.

These are my thoughts on the California schools I looked into...

[sociology27]

Thanks for the insights. As someone who applied to USC and Notre Dame, I'm finding this thread really useful. Another school that I applied to, and am wondering about how they are viewed, is UVA. They don't take many people and the faculty isn't that big, but the people they do have there seem pretty awesome. Anybody know how they are viewed in general.

Also, any opinions about Rutgers??? It seems to be just outside the top tier... but again, really great, some superstar, faculty.

Lastly, it also looks like CUNY-GC could be moving up as well. Their placements in the last couple of years seem to be getting better. And I'd also add that their rocking anthro. department will help them as interdisciplinary research becomes more prevalent.

[sleepycat]

As someone that is applying to UC Santa Cruz, I noticed their placements getting better along with accepting many grad students from the Ivies as undergraduates. It isn't at the level of ND or UCI but i think there is movement towards getting a better ranking. The only problem with Santa Cruz, though, is the budget crunch is drying up any extra funding.

Edited February 5, 2012 by sleepycat

[sciencegirl]

I'm glad my info is helpful @sociology27. I've been obsessing over this grad school thing a lot so I sometimes feel like my postings here a big waste of time and no one cares and its all a form of therapy for me

One more thing about USC that I thought was interesting, was that some of their recent hires have been in the "superstar" full professor category - which often takes 2-3 times as much money than hiring an assistant professor. It shows a real commitment by USC to beef up their sociology department to be able to throw 200K into full professor lines into a department in this economy.

[wannabeaphd]

sciencegirl -- Right on target about USC! I know they definetly have a superstar initive and I know they've hired 2-3 people for next year. The dept. is definetly expanding and I think the rankings will soon reflect that.

For what it's worth, I also agree about UCI -- I visited there last year and not only are the pople there incrediably nice, the work being done seems to be very high quality and exciting.

[Darth.Vegan]

Boulder is on the rise for environmental sociology.

[sociology27]

USC has a really great placement record for their ranking. Shockingly good actually. I'm happy I applied there and really hope I get in. So far 3 interviews and 3 likely rejects. 6 I have no idea about.

[newleaf]

Just to say hi from anthropology, UCI is rising very quickly in our books too...

[rync]

This is a super old thread, but I thought that it was interesting considering all the admits going out. 2 years later, what do you all think?

[jacib]

Two years later and I say the list look pretty similar.  Why?  Because it takes a while for schools to rise, though schools can fall if a couple of big names move or retire and are not replaced, or funding more generally dries up.  Compare some recent sets of rankings, like Org Theory's reputational rankings (link to the corrected version) or I think there might be a new US News and World Report grad school rankings.  There was some controversy at the top with this one, as Wisconsin was surprisingly low, for example, but in general it "rang true" for people (one can read the comments on the two relevant posts to get a sense of what high profile sociology professors thought of them).  With this from four years ago (!), you can compare it to USNWR 2009, USNWR 2005, NRC 1995 to get a sense of what, if any thing, has changed.  The original thread had a spread sheet image showing side-by-side rnakings from all three years, but Grad Cafe changed something in their interface and now it's lost.  It'd be pretty easy for someone who just finished applications and now has a lot of time on their hands to remake it.  One note is that it gets noisy at the bottom.  A lot of the smaller programs are highly specialized--I've heard Brandeis does well with medical sociology, Baylor with sociology of religion, Irvine with networks, etc--so if someone comes from a subfield not in one of those, they might simply not know how good work being done at those schools is (but it might show up on the job market in the external letters of rec and the quality of the writing sample and the publication record and the job talk). 

 

Just eyeballing it, Irvine's rise has been quite noticeable and it seems like (at least in the very networks and orgs friendly crowd at Org Theory) it is firmly a top 25 institution, though breaking into the "top 10" (which probably includes about 15 schools, just like the top 5 probably includes about 8 schools) would probably be difficult.

Edited February 3, 2014 by jacib

[Sociology89]

This is a really interesting thread. Anyone have any opinions on Notre Dame? 

[faculty]

Notre Dame is definitely a school on the rise (full disclosure, I have a friend who is an assistant professor there, but I think that they are deserving of the reputation as a school that is moving up). I know that faculty are well-supported - financially and otherwise - and I'm sure that students are, too. 

 

They are particularly strong in certain areas - social movements (that's where the journal Mobilization is edited), education, culture, and religion. I knew about some of their recent placements (Yale and Bowling Green), but looking at their website they seem to just be the most recent in a solid history of placements including liberal arts schools like Calvin and Wheaton. The list also suggests that they put people in both faculty and policy/research positions. That's likely the influence of the education program, but good news for people who aren't sure if academia is what they ultimately want.

 

Maybe someone with student experience or who visited the program has more to say.

[dewelve]

Any one has done research on Wisconsin and Washington? Thanks!

[faculty]

Wisconsin is not a school on the rise - it is a top program and has been for a long time. Palito, who was active on the forums last year, answer anyone prospective students' questions via PM.

[sociologynerd]

What about Purdue?

[Curiouslyoptimistic]

From what I can tell; and what can I tell?! (Oh and opinions I've gathered these past months from Grad. Students at a range of programs as well as professors at my current department ranked ~50)

 

On the rise:

 

NYU is on a meteoric rise.  Super hot program.  Sky is the limit here.

 

Yale has the money and resources to become a top 10 program eventually, probably in the next 10-15 years.

 

Arizona has fallen a few spots in the last few years (14 - 20), but are still, in terms of quality one of the finest programs in the U.S. - they are probably positioned to move up a few spots with some of their recent hires.

 

Ohio State blew up in other social science programs (political science/econ) and has the resources to make major moves in sociology.

 

Notre Dame is well positioned, well resourced, and well organized and should make a push into the top 25.

[rync]

Any thoughts about UCLA?

[adornoscapitalistcast]

Yale and Columbia move up. Public institutions will be hurt by decreasing availability of funding relative to private schools. Center of gravity of the discipline could shift away from Madison/Michigan/Berkeley, which would be unfortunate in many ways.

Edited February 4, 2014 by WindowsAndDoors

[Curiouslyoptimistic]

Yale and Columbia move up. Public institutions will be hurt by decreasing availability of funding relative to private schools. Center of gravity of the discipline could shift away from Madison/Michigan/Berkeley, which would be unfortunate in many ways.

I think this is right. Sort of. Madison/Michigan/Berkeley, as well as the other top publics Indiana/UNC/UT-Austin/Arizona/UCLA will retain a disciplinary advantage because they all have the capacity to make top hires/retain strong faculty despite funding problems.

 

UPenn, Northwestern, and Chicago are all on a slight decline. Despite Yale/Columbia/NYU's rise.

[avatarmomo]

Any one has done research on Wisconsin and Washington? Thanks!

Based on US News (2005, 2009, 2013) and NRC rankings (1995), it is safe to say Wisconsin has always been very close or at the top position. In Orgtheory's 2013 survey, Wisconsin was ranked 10th, below UNC and Indiana, which seems not likely to be true.

 

In NRC 1995, Washington made it to the top 10, but it was ranked 17th in US News 2005 and 2009 assessments. In 2013 US News rankings, Washington has the 23th place based on scatterplot's estimate of the new data (not the average score US News published). Washington is probably not a school on the rise. But, I do not know why.

[dewelve]

Based on US News (2005, 2009, 2013) and NRC rankings (1995), it is safe to say Wisconsin has always been very close or at the top position. In Orgtheory's 2013 survey, Wisconsin was ranked 10th, below UNC and Indiana, which seems not likely to be true.

 

In NRC 1995, Washington made it to the top 10, but it was ranked 17th in US News 2005 and 2009 assessments. In 2013 US News rankings, Washington has the 23th place based on scatterplot's estimate of the new data (not the average score US News published). Washington is probably not a school on the rise. But, I do not know why.

 

Thank you, avatarmomo!

 

Funding is indeed a big issue for Wisconsin, but the faculties there are extremely strong! In terms of Washington, I think it's a decent program. One impressive thing is that faculties there seem to coauthor a lot with students at Washington. I also got an offer from Duke Public Policy. The stipend provided by Duke is extremely good. I'm still trying to make a decision but it seems so hard.