Employment Prospects- MPP

[m4g1c0ff3]

Hey all,

So since I've been accepted into my first school its really got me thinking about after graduation employment opportunities. I was a first year law student last year and left after I realized finding a job was next to impossible out of law school these days ( I also attended what most law students know as a third tier toilet, my fault.)

I am applying to the Harris School, Heinz College, GWU, American, GMU and UVA.I was accepted into American this weekend.

Does anyone have any idea how hard it is to find employment in the private sector these days? Ideally I would like to work for a Booze Allen or Deloitte, or some type of firm of that nature.

Is is impossible to find this kind of work these days unless your going to HKS or the top ranked student in your class?

side note- does any one know if there is a real difference in terms of prestige from GWU's MPP compared to American's?

[adollarninetynine]

it will be very hard for you to find work at booze allen mainly because they won't recruit at the schools listed above and it will be hard for you to even get an interview without great work experience or a "prestigious" pedigree. it seems like you want to get into consulting and to do that an elite master's degree is needed to get an interview. deloitte is a far step down from a firm like booze allen though so you may have a small shot there.

[Public Policy PhD]

m4g1c0ff3, since I don't have an MPP, take my advice with a grain of salt. I have a couple friends who work for some of the consulting firms you mentioned and it seems like it really is all about networks and who you know. If you have a good reference from someone who works at one of these places, it really is a foot in the door. I would look into the alumni networks at the places you want to go to school, ask around, and see if folks end up at the consulting firms you're interested in. I think work experience is also very important. For example, Booz does a lot of business with the U.S. Government. As such, if you have some USG experience in an area that Booz is working in, it would help tremendously. I'm sure an HKS degree is real solid and that some of the firms you mention actively recruit there, however, my sense is that the most effective way to get a job at one of these places is through your own networks (that will obviously be expanded after you complete your MPP).

[m4g1c0ff3]

This was really really helpful. I actually think I'm ok not being a consultant per se, but I am curious to find out about private sector employers and what they do. The cycles still early so I have no clue where i will wind up. Im gunning for the private sector first to pay down those loans. Any one have any idea where I could wind up besides Booze Allen Hamilton or Deloitte. I know they are the most famous but I don't know about any other places!

[JAubrey]

it will be very hard for you to find work at booze allen mainly because they won't recruit at the schools listed above and it will be hard for you to even get an interview without great work experience or a "prestigious" pedigree. it seems like you want to get into consulting and to do that an elite master's degree is needed to get an interview. deloitte is a far step down from a firm like booze allen though so you may have a small shot there.

I find it interesting that someone can be so unbelievably wrong, unless they literally were making things up as they went. First, if one is talking about Booz & Co and not Booz Allen Hamilton (BAH) (which have been separate companies for a number of years) then they may have a point to an extent (however Booz & Co does recruit at UVa and Chicago and occasionally CMU). BAH is nowhere near as prestigious and does indeed have a number of consultants from the aforementioned UVa and Chicago as well as CMU and GWU. Deloitte is much the same and is one of the rising powers in management consulting outside of MBB.

To the OP, aim for UChicago or UVa to give yourself the best chance. To adollarnineynine, in the future don't give advice on things you are clearly utterly ignorant on.

[JAubrey]

This was really really helpful. I actually think I'm ok not being a consultant per se, but I am curious to find out about private sector employers and what they do. The cycles still early so I have no clue where i will wind up. Im gunning for the private sector first to pay down those loans. Any one have any idea where I could wind up besides Booze Allen Hamilton or Deloitte. I know they are the most famous but I don't know about any other places!

Depending on your prior experience, look at Detica (now owned by BAE), SAIC, CSC, etc. For more mainstream consulting, try Ernst & Young, Pricewaterhouse, AT Kearney, or if you do well at UChicago or UVa then Bain, BCG, or McKinsey (aka MBB).

[m4g1c0ff3]

this is interesting. Does UVA's Batten school place their graduates well? I feel like its unheard of and is fairly new. Since i got into American I was writing off UVA. But should I not? I'm trying to figure all this stuff out now so make the best decision i can.

Also, its very early in the cycle. I doubt it will happen, but if American is the only school I get into, do these jobs become unattainable?

[JAubrey]

this is interesting. Does UVA's Batten school place their graduates well? I feel like its unheard of and is fairly new. Since i got into American I was writing off UVA. But should I not? I'm trying to figure all this stuff out now so make the best decision i can.

Also, its very early in the cycle. I doubt it will happen, but if American is the only school I get into, do these jobs become unattainable?

UVa as a university has an excellent reputation. Batten is extremely new however, and has only had 5 year BA + MPP undergraduates graduate / come thru thus far. They have taken in, from what I've seen and heard, a strong inaugural graduate class (their website lists the undergraduate universities and work experience of some of these new matriculants) and given the ability to cross-register for classes at Darden or UVa Law, you should be fine career-wise. I would still say Harris is better academically and is a more known quantity. HOWEVER, given UVa's proximity to DC and a large and still increasing DoD precense in Charlottesville, I would personally take a punt on Batten if you want to go into public sector consulting or government.

I've worked both in private and public sector management consultancy, if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

[adollarninetynine]

lol i think you are the one who has no idea what they are talking about. first of all, the poster said they went to a TTT law school and then dropped out. based on that, it is fair to assume they will have a small shot at Harris and Heinz and that they will most likely end up at GWU or UVA at best. i can't believe you are actually telling the poster to look at MBB coming out of Harris. are you serious? do you have any idea how difficult it is to get through those interviews? the poster is going to be having a hard time even getting an interview invite since it is obvious they have no connections inside those firms. and yes i know the difference between the two booz firms, and even if the one of them is less prestigious, it is still hard to get in. you are actually suggesting to a poster who dropped out of a TTT law school and then will most likely be attending a non top MPP program and has no significant work experience to set their sights on private/public consulting? you really think giving someone idealistic advice is better than me giving them an honest assessment of their chances? the thought of someone suggesting to another that a school's proximity to DC is a significant asset in this economy or Batten would give them a good shot at consulting shows a total lack of knowledge regarding the job market these days.

[JAubrey]

lol i think you are the one who has no idea what they are talking about. first of all, the poster said they went to a TTT law school and then dropped out. based on that, it is fair to assume they will have a small shot at Harris and Heinz and that they will most likely end up at GWU or UVA at best. i can't believe you are actually telling the poster to look at MBB coming out of Harris. are you serious? do you have any idea how difficult it is to get through those interviews? the poster is going to be having a hard time even getting an interview invite since it is obvious they have no connections inside those firms. and yes i know the difference between the two booz firms, and even if the one of them is less prestigious, it is still hard to get in. you are actually suggesting to a poster who dropped out of a TTT law school and then will most likely be attending a non top MPP program and has no significant work experience to set their sights on private/public consulting? you really think giving someone idealistic advice is better than me giving them an honest assessment of their chances? the thought of someone suggesting to another that a school's proximity to DC is a significant asset in this economy or Batten would give them a good shot at consulting shows a total lack of knowledge regarding the job market these days.

If you noticed, I stipulated IF the OP were to get into UVa or Harris, possibly GW or Heinz as well.

What is your background to give such sage advice?

If you are curious I worked for one of these top tier management consultancies and interviewed at another and now work with

consultants from BAH and Deloitte on a daily basis. And the latter has plenty of UVa grads, as well as GW, University of Minnesota, University of Wisconsin, and even GMU grads. So I would posit I have a fairly in-depth insight into their workings.

Will it be a stretch for the OP? Absolutely However, IF the OP were to get in then he does have a chance. Are many of the consultants in these roles from top tier schools? Yes. BUT I have worked and continue to work alongside some who graduated from American, GMU, and even schools like VT, UCSD, Leicester, and Strathclyde Uni.

Again you talk either from just having read forums or perhaps just have made things up, I do hope it is the former, at least that would be somewhat excusable.

Now who do think has the better grasp on getting into consultancy?

[adollarninetynine]

lol, just lol. first of all, you are still advising the poster to go to those schools and spend a huge amount of money with the hope of getting a consulting job? it is funny that you admit that OP has a slim chance at even the mediocre firms, yet have advised him to pursue one of those degrees that require a huge amount of money. i don't doubt there are smart ppl from a range of schools working in consulting, but instead of giving OP anecdotal (worthless) advice, why don't you advise him to look at or ask for the employment stats for some of the elite schools and see how many of them get consulting gigs (and how many of them have dual MBA/MPP or already worked at in consulting prior to school)? yeah your advice seems sound: encouraging OP to spend 100K+ for a significantly small shot at consulting.

by the way, i did not want to come to this, but since you keep pushing for my "credentials", i worked at one of the MBB out of undergrad for a few years and now i am in the middle of a dual degree and will probably go back to my previous firm after graduation. and since when was deloitte a top tier consulting firm. it is a good firm, but i have never heard any one of my peers consider deloitte in the top ten in the consulting industry.

[JAubrey]

lol, just lol. first of all, you are still advising the poster to go to those schools and spend a huge amount of money with the hope of getting a consulting job? it is funny that you admit that OP has a slim chance at even the mediocre firms, yet have advised him to pursue one of those degrees that require a huge amount of money. i don't doubt there are smart ppl from a range of schools working in consulting, but instead of giving OP anecdotal (worthless) advice, why don't you advise him to look at or ask for the employment stats for some of the elite schools and see how many of them get consulting gigs (and how many of them have dual MBA/MPP or already worked at in consulting prior to school)? yeah your advice seems sound: encouraging OP to spend 100K+ for a significantly small shot at consulting.

by the way, i did not want to come to this, but since you keep pushing for my "credentials", i worked at one of the MBB out of undergrad for a few years and now i am in the middle of a dual degree and will probably go back to my previous firm after graduation. and since when was deloitte a top tier consulting firm. it is a good firm, but i have never heard any one of my peers consider deloitte in the top ten in the consulting industry.

So you've resorted to lying then, I refer to your post from February:

"Posted 14 February 2011 - 05:39 AM

Hey guys,

I was wondering what would be my chances of getting into either of these programs? I have a 770 Quant/ 740 Verbal with a 3.8 GPA with a degree in accounting. I am definitely sure that I will have a very diverse and interesting application due to my personal background. However, I have zero years of full-time work experience since I am an international student studying in the U.S. I am also applying for a law degree in the top ten schools since I received an LSAT of 172. Any advice or comments would be appreciated. "

So you have "zero years of full-time work experience" yet also "worked at one of MBB for a few years out of undergraduate"?

Perhaps you should be a little more consistent in your lies. Pathetic.

[JAubrey]

Also nice other lie about being in a dual degree program, when according to your posts from August you were still planning on applying to an MPP and claimed you were going to get into a top six law school...Even giving you the benefit of the doubt on law school and that you matriculates Fall 2011, you still aren't in a dual degree program.

This is really just sad. This forum is here to help people in applying to grad school, not for you to make things up and troll. I suggest seeking help or at least getting a life.

[adollarninetynine]

you are seriously relying on someone's past internet post history to make judgements? have you not heard of fudging info to prevent outing? seriously OP, if you don't believe me go search the web for information on consulting on MBA admissions forums and look at HKS's employment stats. as forJAubrey, you seem to dislike me due to the fact that I told you that your firm is not in fact in the top tier and that i basically poked holes all throughout your useless advice. instead of responding to my arguments you resorted to making an attack based on internet history (lol). what is sad is that you seem to have an inferiority complex. as for the "zero years of full-time experience", i simply stated that since i had no public service experience and MPPs look for public interest work. and yeah you are right in that i am not in the dual degree for a MPP. i am in one for the MBA. thanks for playing. now go back to working at deloitte thinking you are a top consultant. lol, just lol.

[MYRNIST]

have you not heard of fudging info to prevent outing?

Not to interrupt this very entertaining Internet slapfight, but is the above really that much of a concern? Do adcoms really go trolling through forums hoping to find their candidates? And even if they do, why would a candidate putting in extra time and work trying to get educated about grad school be interpreted negatively? I mean, this place is just discussion of schools and the admissions process, not like we're plagiarizing SOPs or something.

Edited February 10, 2012 by MYRNIST

[JAubrey]

you are seriously relying on someone's past internet post history to make judgements? have you not heard of fudging info to prevent outing? seriously OP, if you don't believe me go search the web for information on consulting on MBA admissions forums and look at HKS's employment stats. as forJAubrey, you seem to dislike me due to the fact that I told you that your firm is not in fact in the top tier and that i basically poked holes all throughout your useless advice. instead of responding to my arguments you resorted to making an attack based on internet history (lol). what is sad is that you seem to have an inferiority complex. as for the "zero years of full-time experience", i simply stated that since i had no public service experience and MPPs look for public interest work. and yeah you are right in that i am not in the dual degree for a MPP. i am in one for the MBA. thanks for playing. now go back to working at deloitte thinking you are a top consultant. lol, just lol.

Ha ha I always love someone try to dig themselves out of being caught in an obvious lie, good luck sport. As for Deloitte, they are a fairly respected firm, I worked with them, as in alongside some of their consultants in my current role. Unlike you, some of us HAVE worked at MBB and are comfortable enough about our profile and experience not to need to make things up.

MYRNIST is spot on, what exactly negative would adcoms find about an applicant on here? They were asking for help? I think not. Also I know most programs don't exactly track down people on the internet they believe to be applicants.

Oh and sport not to quibble, but you said " However, I have zero years of full-time work experience since I am an international student studying in the U.S" not that "had no public service experience and MPPs look for public interest work." But nice try, whatever makes you feel better chief.

I am, for my part, done on this thread. Best of luck to the OP.

[m4g1c0ff3]

Thanks JAubrey to shedding light on this topic. I think past admissions, many of us on this forum are even more interested in jobs. the help has been fantastic! onward to march!

[adollarninetynine]

funny how you haven't refuted a single part of my advice to OP and continue to resort to false ad hominem attacks to discredit me. as for the OP, i really hope you aren't listening to JAubrey just because they said what you wanted to hear. as i said, go browse through some of the MBA forums like gmat club to get a realistic overview of how consulting recruiting and hiring works if you don't believe me. you made the bad decision to attend a TTT law school, so i hope you don't make another bad decision because i have see many people lead crappy lives from huge debts and no job prospects to help pay the loans off.

you apparently haven't gone through admissions for other professional schools, but some adcomms are known to browse through forums. it is obvious you work for deloitte seeing how you get so upset when i mentioned deloitte is not an elite firm. i could name ten firms better name deloitte off the top of my head. i don't see why you are so upset, maybe an inferiority complex? what is the use of being so mad on the internet. unless you can refute what i've advised OP with clear facts, stop giving bad advice.

the bottom line is that you seriously advised OP to spend 100K+ for a miniscule shot at consulting. i would hate to be the company that hired you as a consultant.

Edited February 10, 2012 by adollarninetynine

[fishpoo]

Hi, a response to the original post:

Private sector is hiring, hurray! The number of hires each year depends on the specific fields the firms r hiring for. Last year, for example, I heard healthcare was a huge deal. This year, not so sure about straight up public policy degrees but I heard A LOT of talk from current consultants about the need for familiarity with SAP and ERP systems. So basically, yea they're hiring, but your employability will depend on

1) what school u attend- consulting firms have fave schools they like to hire from. I go to CMU, where Deloitte heavily recruits. E&Y, PWC, IBM and other smaller firms also like CMU students for the types of skills our grads can deliver. So when considering your school, it would help to look up: what firms hold info sessions at X school, whether your choice firm holds a case competition at X school(as Deloitte does at cmu), what skills u'd gain at X school, etc. Sadly, Booz does not recruit heavily from CMU yet. They were my top choice coming into cmu, but after talking with cmu alums in all the big firms, it really doesn't matter to me that Booz doesn't have a heavy presence yet- I know I can get in via networking.

I'm on my iPad and can't scroll down to the next part of my MSG, lol..... To be continued...

2) who u are- ur experiences, your skills, ur familiarity with their industries of focus

[fishpoo]

So to continue...ya, depends on what u can deliver. Hardest part at the big consulting firms is getting that first interview so going to a school with good ties to your firm of choice is very important. The interviews are easy cheesy.

[m4g1c0ff3]

Thanks to fishpoo for telling me that. I actually just got accepted into CMU's DC-track today. Its my first choice so unless Chicago throws me a lot of money I will be attending. I appreciate the advice.

to the prick who said that because I went to a third tier law school I have no shot at going to a decent grad program. Im going to a decent grad program. Thanks so much.

[bgreenster]

Congratulations on getting into CMU! I don't personally know a lot about consulting because I plan on going the non-profit/possibly government agency route, but I DO have friends that work at Deloitte, and it's one of the few I know about, so I wouldn't scoff at it

For my two cents, I think it's crap that law school stuff would matter (and obvi, adcoms are agreeing) because it really just means you needed to go down a different path. I have a number of friends that quit law school. I think a major problem with law school is that it's REALLY hard to know if it's your thing until you're in the middle of it. Other programs, it's easier to know if you'll like it or not. Again, congrats - I'm sure you'll be able to go the consulting path if you want it badly enough!

[adollarninetynine]

Thanks to fishpoo for telling me that. I actually just got accepted into CMU's DC-track today. Its my first choice so unless Chicago throws me a lot of money I will be attending. I appreciate the advice.

to the prick who said that because I went to a third tier law school I have no shot at going to a decent grad program. Im going to a decent grad program. Thanks so much.

i never said you would not be able to get into a decent program. i said you would not be getting a decent consulting gig to pay off your six figure debt reasonably. the fact that you got into CMU and couldn't even get into a halfway decent law school says everything. you think a consulting firm is going to hire you as a senior associate when you have no meaningful consulting/finance experience before school, dropped out of a TTT law school, and had only the grades to get into a TTT? just look at the employment statistics at some of the TOP mpa/mpp programs to get a picture. even if you went to HKS, you would still have a slim shot unless you were a dual degree applicant with the business or law school.

[state_school'12]

Give it up, adollarnintynine. You're failed to persuade anyone to your way of thinking, your arguments are confused and contradictory, and you appear obsessed with prestige. Now you're just trolling.

To the OP, congrats on the excellent admit.

[adollarninetynine]

LOL, you think i am trolling. i am probably the only person on these boards that has an inkling of how the recruiting process works for consulting firms. how am i prestige obsessed? because i keep pointing out his TTT law school failure? i think you might be ignorant since you never applied to law schools but going to a TTT and dropping out means OP went to an unranked law school with abysmal scores and still could not cut it there. by the way, have you ever even done consulting before?

my arguments may be confusing for you because you lack the acumen to understand basic hiring and real world functions, but like i said if you don't believe me, just click on the HKS employment statistics and the answer should be right there assuming you have some basic statistical skills. i don't get what is so hard about looking at the stats when the facts are right there in front of you, but i forgot this board is sometimes filled with people who want to pursue their "dreams" even though ever sign leads to them being in massive debt with no marketable skills.