Admits to PhD who already have terminal MA/MS

[insanityensues]

Has anyone found that already having an MA or MS helped them get into the PhD program this time around? I'll have mine in May, and still found myself with rejection letters from all my schools this year. 4.0 GPA, conference presentations, voluntarily led workshops, independent research and teaching experience, all for nothing. I'm getting pretty frustrated here.

[tauren]

I am receiving my MS in May, I'm leaving my current PhD program, and I got rejected from 4 of my 5 schools. I think a masters only really helps if you don't have a background in psych or did subpar in undergrad and want to prove that you can handle the course work. Also at the one school I interviewed at, a large portion of the applicants had masters or will have them in May, making having a masters not all that beneficial in admissions.

[stereopticons]

I will also be receiving my MA in May. It's hard to say whether or not it helped...I mean, at least this time I got people interested in me. I got interviews. That's more than I got last time I applied to PhD programs. But I haven't been accepted yet, so in the long run, I really just not sure. I do know it helped me focus my research interests (I was all over the map when I finished UG), gave me experience with methods/paradigms/software I'd never used before (EEG, MATLAB, EPrime, etc.), and gave me teaching experience. I was hoping that would give me an advantage, but mostly what I've gotten so far has been "Wow, we're impressed with your application! But...not enough to admit you. Sorry." I think it's very person and program specific.

[greenis4growth]

Maybe it's just a regional thing...or maybe just a clinical psych thing...but, from what I've experienced during the app process, the majority of applicants that received interviews for NY schools had their masters. Regardless, I really enjoyed getting my masters first...and my undergrad academic record is super strong...honestly, it just gave me the time to really develop my OWN research interests - figure out what I REALLY wanna investigate and what I thought I wanted to do because it was the only research experience that I could gain at the time...I know it's lame, but I feel more "seasoned" as an applicant applying to programs after a masters...if nothing else, it made me more confident in what I have to offer a doctoral program and less worried about what other applicants have over me...I'm glad I did it. Everyone's path is different!

[mj53]

I am receiving my MS in May, I'm leaving my current PhD program, and I got rejected from 4 of my 5 schools. I think a masters only really helps if you don't have a background in psych or did subpar in undergrad and want to prove that you can handle the course work. Also at the one school I interviewed at, a large portion of the applicants had masters or will have them in May, making having a masters not all that beneficial in admissions.

Uh.... if anything this suggests it is beneficial to have a masters when applying to PhD programs. If most have them, where does that leave the applicants that don't.

[tauren]

Uh.... if anything this suggests it is beneficial to have a masters when applying to PhD programs. If most have them, where does that leave the applicants that don't.

I meant that it's becoming more common, so it's not as much as a leg up in the past.

[Engali]

I meant that it's becoming more common, so it's not as much as a leg up in the past.

That logic doesn't really hold. That's like saying since college degrees have become more common, they are not worth pursuing and one should just get a high school diploma.

A master's isn't as much of a leg up *compared to what it used to mean*, so you got that right, but the question is whether it's worth pursuing over stopping at a bachelor's. When everyone has one, it becomes the default baseline and not having one puts you at a marked disadvantage. To use the previous example, it makes no sense to say that since everyone has a bachelor's nowadays that it's not worth pursuing. Having one doesn't make stand out positively, but not having one raises some questions.

More to the point, you said the majority of those interviewed had their master's. If the number of people who did have a master's in the group interviewed is disproportionately greater than the general applicant pool, then there's strong evidence that the master's is helping in some way because these people were selected for the interview and not at random.

[sciencegirl]

to the OP... did you reach higher this time around? Since you had the MA going into it this time, did you apply to much harder programs than the last time you applied? Was it not large enough of a net cast?

[kaister]

There seems to be so much mixed feelings about getting a masters. I'm debating it myself, besides the scarce funding and the limited options, I'm also wondering if it's worth it. I mean, since there are less options, the professors at these schools will not always have similar research interests, right? So if that's the case, how do you apply to these schools? I'm assuming they're looking for fit, as well, especially if they fund you, but are they more lenient about it? Like for example, if your research interests only align upon a way broader scope, otherwise, I'm not totally interested in these profs research. This is why I didn't plan on applying to any Masters programs, because none of them had a close enough research interest with mine and I was scared they would just ignore apps like that or if I did lie, I'd only end up getting experience in research I wasn't totally interested in or wouldn't ultimately help my goals in research.

[stereopticons]

There seems to be so much mixed feelings about getting a masters. I'm debating it myself, besides the scarce funding and the limited options, I'm also wondering if it's worth it. I mean, since there are less options, the professors at these schools will not always have similar research interests, right? So if that's the case, how do you apply to these schools? I'm assuming they're looking for fit, as well, especially if they fund you, but are they more lenient about it? Like for example, if your research interests only align upon a way broader scope, otherwise, I'm not totally interested in these profs research. This is why I didn't plan on applying to any Masters programs, because none of them had a close enough research interest with mine and I was scared they would just ignore apps like that or if I did lie, I'd only end up getting experience in research I wasn't totally interested in or wouldn't ultimately help my goals in research.

If you know exactly what you want to research, an MA/MS may not be your best bet. If that's the case, you'd be better off with a lab manager or RA position, I think. What I really got from my MA program, besides a whole lot of experience, was a more solidified, coherent idea of what I wanted to research. When I applied to programs last time, I vaguely knew...but I was kind of clueless. I applied to some masters programs with people doing research in the general areas that I wanted to work in, and went from there. So, I think if you are totally set in what you want to research, getting your MA is a great idea. I'm glad I got mine, even if I still haven't been accepted to a PhD program...

[Midlyfechrysalis]

^{Hard to say. I have an MA in a related discipline (but from a nothing graduate school). 3.97, published, 2 undergrad degrees both with an 3.5+, and am a high school teacher. I haven't heard a thing from the programs I applied to. I am geographically anchored, and , so I applied to local options only. In my case, I am wondering if my age and possibly my quantitative GRE is a factor.}

Edited February 17, 2012 by Midlyfechrysalis

[insanityensues]

to the OP... did you reach higher this time around? Since you had the MA going into it this time, did you apply to much harder programs than the last time you applied? Was it not large enough of a net cast?

I actually reached lower since I had so many top-tier applications (read: rejections) last time. Two of my schools' POIs wanted me in their labs, but the funding wasn't there and senior faculty were getting graduate students over junior faculty. I wound up applying to MA programs as back-ups last year, and decided it was better to get the MA than to wait around for a year at a crappy customer service job in the meantime. As soon as I was accepted, I got a scholarship outside of my department and have worked as a mentor/TA/lab supervisor/tutor, etc. (any job that needed volunteers) for the last year. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that was enough. The only good part is it seems like I'll be able to get a job in my field with my MA. I'm working on that now.

I wasn't able to cast as wide of a net this time due to financial reasons. Try as I might, I could't find a way to get my applications paid for, and I have unusual circumstances that make my applications more expensive than most (I have transcripts from 4 schools instead of 1-2). I just don't want to waste the money next year if no one has funding for students, since I'm trying to pay a mortgage/survive in a terrible economy.

[stereopticons]

I wasn't able to cast as wide of a net this time due to financial reasons. Try as I might, I could't find a way to get my applications paid for, and I have unusual circumstances that make my applications more expensive than most (I have transcripts from 4 schools instead of 1-2). I just don't want to waste the money next year if no one has funding for students, since I'm trying to pay a mortgage/survive in a terrible economy.

You probably did, but I thought I'd ask anyway...did you email POIs before hand to check and make sure they were able to take students?Funding is a huge problem and makes applications so difficult and frustrating. I got a couple of application fee waivers for some of the places I applied--try searching for fee waiver programs, or emailing the graduate admissions office to see if they have any need-based fee waivers. Some do, some don't, but it's always worth asking.

[insanityensues]

You probably did, but I thought I'd ask anyway...did you email POIs before hand to check and make sure they were able to take students?Funding is a huge problem and makes applications so difficult and frustrating. I got a couple of application fee waivers for some of the places I applied--try searching for fee waiver programs, or emailing the graduate admissions office to see if they have any need-based fee waivers. Some do, some don't, but it's always worth asking.

I was already volunteering in the lab for one of my POI's, had fairly frequent contact, and had been in communication with another. They were both pretty encouraging that I would have a good chance at a place, but I got last-minute correspondence from them that said otherwise. Thanks for the advice on the fee waivers, though. I know I won't have that much money to drop on this again next year!

Edited February 17, 2012 by insanityensues

[Benzene]

To chime in, for me personally I'm sure my MA helped me. My undergrad GPA was low-ish (3.3) and dotted with Cs, Ds, and Fs (I retook a couple classes) due to a combination of screwing around and then later, family issues. I had only one research project under my belt, and I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. Doing the MA showed my capability to succeed in graduate level classes, lead to multiple posters at large conferences, narrow down my interests, and gain better LORs. I also had a great advisor at my master's institution who introduced me to professors in the field and really, really helped me navigate the whole application process, what was looked for, etc. which I was absolutely *clueless* about coming out of undergrad.

Granted, I didn't apply to PhD programs as an undergrad, but I'm certain that with my GPA, lack of experience, and really, lack of knowledge as to what I wanted to do, I wouldn't have had a shot.

I did notice, as someone else pointed out, that at my interview weekend it seemed a lot of other applicants had also either finished or were about to finish a master's. I think for someone with strong qualifications and a good idea of their interests, it might be less helpful to go for a master's, but for my situation it was invaluable.

[quick1]

I had a few professors and mentors in the field point out that "in some cases having a Masters degree hinders your chances of gaining admission to a PhD program." I asked why and the response was "Well while this isn't the best thing to do, many schools want fresh and out of undergraduate students that they can shape and mold to their specifications based on the school's orientation, research, professors, and clinical work."

I researched this theory a bit online and found multiple articles and forums discussing this very thing. Sure a student with a Masters is possibly more dedicated, more mature, and proven capable of handling graduate work. But they also have more experience, might know more, and might be resistant to just doing what their research professor says because they have been "tainted" by other orientations. If you are fresh out of undergrad you haven't really shaped your research orientation or your clinical orientation and if you have you're already looking at schools that match that. Also online there is a sense that Masters programs in psychology are "easy" since anything more than one C+ or lower on your transcript is automatic dismissal. So there's a sense that Bs and even As are passed out more freely even if it isn't true. With a Masters you might also "be tainted" with real world experience.

It sounds insane but more and more realistic as I'm 8 rejections in this season with clinical experience, my own research based thesis, and a good masters GPA. Like others I screwed around a bit in undergrad and even when taking extra courses to get a background in psych. I too thought a dedicated Masters student would look good and show dedication and ability to work at the graduate level successfully but now I'm doubting that a lot.

[quick1]

^{Hard to say. I have an MA in a related discipline (but from a nothing graduate school). 3.97, published, 2 undergrad degrees both with an 3.5+, and am a high school teacher. I haven't heard a thing from the programs I applied to. I am geographically anchored, and , so I applied to local options only. In my case, I am wondering if my age and possibly my quantitative GRE is a factor.}

I feel the same way sometimes and I had a lower undergrad GPA than you! I def think schools put way too much focus on Quant. scores as if it's some magical number that says "I'm going to be awesome at whatever you're doing in your lab." It's like the LSATs, I knew someone who had no background in law or politics and took the LSATs on a whim, she got a perfect score and within a month had schools contacting her to apply and offering her free rides to law school!! It's a number people, people do game these tests and they aren't the best predictor of success.