Another grad student with unsupportive relatives

[koolherc]

^Super duper excellent post.

[Ville]

I can share the feelings of rejection from my unsupportive dad. I'm currently an MA male student (Chinese heritage) in my late 20s from Southeast Asia and upon knowing that I plan to continue pursuing a PhD in communication here in the US, my dad's typical comments were: "Think about the lost opportunity for the next five years! You could be back home with a well-paying job, a car and a house. It's not like you're going to find a cure for cancer. What you study is so abstract! How can you make money from that? When you come back with a PhD, be prepared to be disappointed that you have wasted five of your most productive years, only to find out you're in no better position than someone with a masters degree. You should only consider doing a doctoral degree if you can also find some work and make money while you study, blah blah blah" He just can't process that the TA or RA I'll be doing during my PhD will in fact be my job. Even during my MA study now, he will make ridiculous comments like "you should find time to attend real classes that train you to be entrepreneurs or learn about the stock market so you can invest. It always come down to money instead of personal happiness or the pursuit of knowledge. Sigh.

In a way, I understand that doing a PhD here is a selfish decision. Both of my parents are in their 60s, unemployed and have to rely on me and my brothers for their living expenses. I contributed to my family a lot when I was living with them. And by being here, I put more burden on my brothers. It doesn't help that whenever my parents have a gathering with their siblings (and we Chinese have many of those gatherings through traditional festivals, ancestor worshiping, etc.), people will approach them and ask things like "How much are your sons making now? When will he come back? Oh look, my son has never been overseas but he makes way more money than yours now." Don't you love it when most of your own family and relatives are so materialistic and only define success with money? My mom is really the only one who encourages me to do what I need to do for myself.

I think my approach to address the negativity is to educate my dad and the skeptics of the values of my field of study, how a PhD is a huge investment of time and resources, but it can open more options in my life, how it is something I have carefully considered, and not just going for it in a wimp just so I can be in the US. It all really comes down to cultures and as Sibaga mentions "long standing conventions, practices and beliefs." My dad and his siblings are byproducts of a generation where their parents just migrated from China due to wars and famine. Education was not highly valued and wealth was created through hard labor and strong determination. Being a small business owner who later expands it into a large enterprise is the biggest accomplishment that you can strive for. Doing a PhD just doesn't fit that framing of "success". I'm not saying my conversations have changed my dad's worldviews, but it hopefully sinks in that the journey I'm about to embark is equally arduous, and can be as rewarding, at least for me. Of course, my end goal is to secure a good paying position, or even open a social enterprise with similar-minded friends. It will just take longer and hopefully my parents can maintain a good health to see what I can accomplish down the road.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Ville

[NoseInABook]

FWIW, when I told my dad that I'd been accepted to grad school, his response was, "Anybody can get into grad school." And when I listed several, intelligent friends who hadn't found a program, he responded with, "Well, all of MY kids can get into grad school." Also untrue, but at that point, it was time to walk away.

[Jasmineflower]

Hey Ville, thanks for sharing your story. I really appreciate the way you're able to empathize with your dad, understand his perspective, appreciate his accomplishments, and respect him, even while continuing to pursue your own path. I had to both laugh and shudder when I read the part about people asking your parents, "So, how much is your son making now?" (!!!)

The funny thing about my family is that, on the one hand, they look down on me for having less money, but, on the other hand, they truly see engineering not only as more profitable than other ways of earning a living (which it largely is), but also as somehow nobler and more virtuous. So, for example, an engineer deserves more respect than another educated professional -- a teacher, for example -- who makes less money, BUT the engineer ALSO deserves more respect than someone like a store owner whose business makes him rich. (Though the store owner clearly does get much more respect than the teacher.) Engineers are just smarter, more upstanding, and generally BETTER than non-engineers. In fact, according to my relatives, if you don't have an engineering degree, you're basically an uneducated person. Hence, I am an uneducated person. Getting a PhD in a social science field is "just a hobby." As an uneducated person, I'm an embarrassment and a disgrace to them. And I didn't even have the sense to at least MARRY an engineer! (Or at least a wealthy shopkeeper!)

I should be more like you, Ville, and not let their scorn and derision get to me. You seem to be doing a great job of maintaining your sanity! I don't know why I can't just get over it and ignore the negativity. I guess I should seek professional counseling!

[Ville]

Hey Jasmineflower,

I think I'm lucky in the sense that I have a supportive mom to counteract the negative energy from my dad. In a way, it comes down to maintaining "face". To boost his social standing among his friends and relatives, my dad wants to paint me in a certain light (wealthy businessman rather than a poor educator/researcher in a random social science field). I guess he's disappointed I am not choosing to do what he thinks is best for my life. Well, he and his relatives need to remember it's my life and not theirs. And to be honest, I don't really give a flying ##@@ about what they think. I don't owe them anything so why let them dictate how I should pursue my life?

Having said this, do I ever question the choices I have made to pursue a PhD in communication? Of course! I have friends who opt for Bachelor or Masters Degrees in financial engineering, MBA, computer science or IT. They are now making over $100k a year. You can't help but think I should have just gone for one of those degrees during my college days instead. However, I have also met a lot of successful people in my life with advanced degrees in political science, public policy, public health, anthropology & communication. They are doing more inspiring work to combat poverty, diseases and political conflicts in the United Nations, health agencies and related social enterprises. Some of them make significant income and also a huge dent in the universe. I think it's sadder to choose a 'safe' path in engineering just to make money, even though you have no passion for it.

I think you need to ask yourself why those snarky comments are starting to interfere with your well-being. Do they say those things because of their limited worldviews? Is it justified to be rude to impose their values on you because they think it's helpful for you or rather it's to reaffirm their beliefs that they have made better choices in their life? You can see that I tolerate my dad because....well he's my dad. But you can be sure that I won't tolerate it if it's from his relatives. Damn respect the elder culture. Someone should definitely step in to defend you if people have the audacity to berate you in front of your own child. I will encourage you to remove yourself from such toxic environment to keep your sanity. I assume that it's mostly your immediate parents or siblings who you have a hard time with. I encourage you, if you have not done it already, to have an honest discussion with them that what they are doing are straining your relationships with them. Acknowledge that your career path may be unconventional from their perspectives, and thanks for the criticism because deep down they care. However, if they are going to keep on harping about your education and career choices or go as far as to not want you in a wedding because they view you as lesser of a human being, it demonstrates the ugly nature of who they are. I mean come on. It's not like you're sitting around doing nothing. Doing a PhD is one of the hardest anyone can do in their life.

Speaking from my own experience as someone who was raised in a traditional Chinese family in which relationship dynamics among immediate family members and other relatives are based largely on "face", wealth and other traditional values. I have chosen to really put efforts in maintaining relationships with my parents and two brothers. For other distant relatives with narrow views, it's more about putting on a mask when you absolutely have to meet them. I can choose to stay away, and it's more enjoyable to surround yourself with people who accept you for what you are.

Good luck! I hope my post helps. Juggling with school life and family relationships can be hard, but I hope you can find a way to cope with your situation.

[dmacfour]

Hey Ville, thanks for sharing your story. I really appreciate the way you're able to empathize with your dad, understand his perspective, appreciate his accomplishments, and respect him, even while continuing to pursue your own path. I had to both laugh and shudder when I read the part about people asking your parents, "So, how much is your son making now?" (!!!)

The funny thing about my family is that, on the one hand, they look down on me for having less money, but, on the other hand, they truly see engineering not only as more profitable than other ways of earning a living (which it largely is), but also as somehow nobler and more virtuous. So, for example, an engineer deserves more respect than another educated professional -- a teacher, for example -- who makes less money, BUT the engineer ALSO deserves more respect than someone like a store owner whose business makes him rich. (Though the store owner clearly does get much more respect than the teacher.) Engineers are just smarter, more upstanding, and generally BETTER than non-engineers. In fact, according to my relatives, if you don't have an engineering degree, you're basically an uneducated person. Hence, I am an uneducated person. Getting a PhD in a social science field is "just a hobby." As an uneducated person, I'm an embarrassment and a disgrace to them. And I didn't even have the sense to at least MARRY an engineer! (Or at least a wealthy shopkeeper!)

I should be more like you, Ville, and not let their scorn and derision get to me. You seem to be doing a great job of maintaining your sanity! I don't know why I can't just get over it and ignore the negativity. I guess I should seek professional counseling!

At least I'm not the only one who gets that attitude from engineers. It's as if they are god's gift to science an reality. It pisses me off because they act as if they have the authority to inform me that psychology is not science. They don't even take research methods classes as undergrads.

Edited March 15, 2012 by dmacfour

[Hillary Emick]

I come from really old school rural New England farm families on both sides, where hard work has traditionally been held up as a value a lot more than higher education. My mom was a first generation college student, and I am a first generation graduate student. There are people in my family who are really proud of me and think it will be cool to have a Dr in the family. I know my grandma would have been very proud. She was a very smart woman who just didn't have these kinds of opportunities in her day and was always very proud of my mom and I for going to college.

There are also naysayers in my family circle who poo-poo all over the idea and think I am crazy and/or a bad parent for giving up a salaried professional job and going off to live on the other side of the country on a grad student stipend. Frankly, I could care less. I learned many years to let other people's opinions, particularly the jealous or jaded ones, roll right off of me. There are about a dozen people in this world whose opinions actually matter to me. They all support me 100%.