Applying Years Removed from Undergrad - All Professional Recommendations Okay?

[QCass]

If I am applying to graduate school 10 or so years after finishing undergrad, and I have in the meantime been working in a related field, is it frowned upon to have all of my letters of recommendation be professional in nature (past bosses, supervisors)?

I unfortunately never got particularly close with any professors while an undergraduate, and I doubt any of them would have anything meaningful to say about me at this point.

This is in mathematics, if that helps at all.

[LaurenF]

Sorry that this is not a response to your question, but I was just about to post exactly--EXACTLY--the same question on here. Except in my case it was my MA that I finished 10 years ago, and I am applying for a PhD in Public Affairs.

My graduate school courses were large, so it was difficult to build relationships with professors. Even when I was enrolled, I doubt that they would have been able to write meaningful recommendations. I have considered contacting my professors, stating which of their classes I took, and including copies of graded papers that I handed in. However, I after extensively searching, I can't find any papers that I handed in, and without that, contacting them does not seem particulalry fruitful.

I can't imagine that other people don't have this problem. It seems silly to let this one thing keep me from applying, but I'm not sure what to do. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Thank you!

[TropicalCharlie]

I finished my undergrad ten years ago and got accepted to my top MS choice for this fall. The LOR requirements vary by school, so you may want to look into this first. Some programs require at least one academic LOR, while others don't really care if they are all academic or professional. If the programs you are applying to don't have specific requirements, I don't see anything wrong with having only professional LOR's. Your resume/cv will be self explanatory in terms of why you do not have any academic LOR's. In my case, I worked in my academic LOR writer's lab and took his class as an undergrad. I maintained contact with him throughout the years, so it was easy to get a letter. All of the programs I applied to required only one academic LOR, so it worked out since I don't have any other academic references.

Edited April 6, 2012 by TropicalCharlie

[unforth]

I have this problem too - graduated 8 years ago, was not particularly memorable to my undergrad professors. I've already visited a fewof the schools I'm interested in, and at one of them I asked the Director of Graduate Studies for my field (history) what she thought. She suggested that if I got one recommendation from a professor in my graduate program (work in a differen field) and had professional contacts who were relevant this would work. In my case, I want to be a history professor, and I work closely with a few history and folklore professors, so I'll be speaking with them. It sounded to me that it's important to have at least one academic recommendation. I'm pretty worried about it, but the suggestion I was given was - pick someone who liked you and gave you good grades. Send them a paper that they graded highly and write them a letter that reminds them of who you are and details that might remind them of your academics. Include a picture.

Don't yet know if this will work; I'm not planning to outreach to recommenders until the fall. Hope this helps!

[TheFez]

I hate to be doom and gloom - but not having LORs from academics is not good. Of course if you can't do anything about it - you have to do the best you can and hope your over application is strong enough.

Weak letters from academics can do more harm than good. Its not a matter of just getting a letter that says "I had this guy in class and he got an A"..

The process is designed to identify students who have not done real academic research before applying from those who have since the LOR is not about the students grades which are apparent from the transcript, but their work as a researcher, preparedness (and commitment) to do academic research, etc.

The sad reality is that few "real jobs" provide that kind of preparation, so the comments by "bosses" and "coworkers" are not very relevant.

Some returning students (myself included) take a semester or two to just do independent research with a professor to build that part of their CV.

[emmm]

I also took additional classes and had a short summer research internship before applying to graduate school after many years out of school. I don't think I would have gotten in without doing that.

[CageFree]

I had no trouble getting letters of rec from undergrad, and I graduated in 2000. I have been working in a related field for 8 years, so my third letter came from my boss. It did help that I did a thesis so I had a working relationship with those professors... they hadn't forgotten me. I was so nervous that they would have... you never know. Just drop them a line.

If you haven't had the opportunity to do a thesis or something like that, where you've developed a close rapport with a prof., it's definitely tougher. I was told that I had to get two academic letters at just about every program I applied to.

Edited June 8, 2012 by CageFree

[TakeruK]

Academic LORs (from research supervisors) are extremely important. But I do wonder for people who graduated a decade ago, is an academic LOR written today about the person they remembered 10 years ago really that much better than a generic letter "this student got an A in my class"?

I guess if it's a research-based LOR, it would be a good idea to try to get that LOR. It does sound like the best thing is to try to get back in touch with academia (i.e. volunteer/work for a prof doing independent research) because not only will that get you a relevant academic LOR, I think it would really show the graduate committees that you are serious about giving up your current job/career to get into research.

[amlobo]

I would look at the websites of the programs to which you are applying, and if they do not provide information on LORs, contact the program coordinator and ask. A lot of programs I'm looking at waive the academic LOR requirements completely for those 5+ years out of school. They allow you to substitute for faculty recommendations with work associates or anyone who can assess your suitability for graduate study. But, I'm applying in a social science program... so I'm not sure if math may differ. Don't be afraid to contact the program. I worried because one program asked for a writing sample within the discipline... and I didn't have one. But, I contacted the program coordinator and was assured that my writing sample would work, as well. So, you never know unless you ask

[Joe VL]

On 5/20/2012 at 4:36 PM, TheFez said:

I hate to be doom and gloom - but not having LORs from academics is not good. Of course if you can't do anything about it - you have to do the best you can and hope your over application is strong enough.

 

Weak letters from academics can do more harm than good. Its not a matter of just getting a letter that says "I had this guy in class and he got an A"..

 

The process is designed to identify students who have not done real academic research before applying from those who have since the LOR is not about the students grades which are apparent from the transcript, but their work as a researcher, preparedness (and commitment) to do academic research, etc.

 

The sad reality is that few "real jobs" provide that kind of preparation, so the comments by "bosses" and "coworkers" are not very relevant.

 

Some returning students (myself included) take a semester or two to just do independent research with a professor to build that part of their CV.

 

 

 

 

@TheFez do you think that if there´s a problem with your LOR´s (they are not academic, they are not good etc) you can compensate by taking a step back in your career? For instance: I had coursework based masters in a reasonably prestigious US university. Now I´ll try to do a masters again (this time with research focusing on following up with Phd) in Canada (as domestic student) in a less well ranked university. I will not be strong in my LOR´s. 

[Joe VL]

On 5/20/2012 at 4:42 PM, emmm said:

I also took additional classes and had a short summer research internship before applying to graduate school after many years out of school. I don't think I would have gotten in without doing that.

Were you going up the ladder with your graduate school (or taking a step back)?