Article - 1 of 2 grads jobless or underemployed

[mandarin.orange]

Read this article today and it made me think of a few current themes I've seen around here (Slate article thread, for example) lately.

I just keep thinking that the economic climate for college grads is so different from when I finished undergrad over a decade ago. No wonder grad school appeals to an ever-increasing body of applicants, either as a way to avoid menial jobs/unemployment, or gain further experience and knowledge just to compete for jobs. I know my own dept had an increase in this year's application cycle of about 15%, compared to last year.

Thoughts?

[Spore]

Indeed, the lack of jobs for bachelors degrees is upsetting.

Honestly, I don't believe a graduate degree is necessarily going to hand a job to people. Evidence: out of work lawyers, people with degrees in education who cannot work as teachers, people with PhDs who would like to be professors but there are 400 people competing for one slot....

What graduate school is guarenteed to do for most folks is put them more in debt.

Consider: Spending 6 years getting a PhD while fully funded. This is followed by years of postdoctoral work. And then not being able to find a professorship. Sure, you have not spent money on the degree....but you could have been establishing yourself in a different field and rising through the ranks (and an increased salary).

When I graduated from college in 1998, the world was wide-open. Everything was grand. I could do anything! I could be anything!

Somehow, it just does not seem to be the case anymore.

[ArtHistoryandMuseum]

I am definitely in the boat of having to earn further degrees to get the job. Recently, I read a salary survey for my profession in my region of the US, which stated many senior-level curators have only BAs. For some lowly paid curatorial fellowships these days, for top museums, often you need ABD or PhD in Art History.

[lydibird]

I do think part of the problem is that a lot of college students think that they deserve a degree merely by finishing their program. It seems like everyone just expected the economy to fix itself while they were in school and didn't prepare for reality. Instead of spending time looking for opportunities to get real life experience while in school (lab jobs, teaching/TA/UTF, internships, etc) they play video games for 14 hours a week. Even half that time spent working on some sort of tangible project would have helped their job search tremendously. Theoretical knowledge isn't enough to land a job; it hasn't been for a long while and students should go into their degree program knowing that.

I graduated a year ago. Out of those looking for work, everyone I know who got involved with their education more deeply than simply doing their assignments and passing exams has found employment relevent to their degree.

Maybe my friends and I have been extremely lucky, and I'm not saying that the job market isn't bleak and depressing right now. Obviously the number of jobs available would remain the same even if everyone in college were making the most of their education. That said, there are tons of ways to "get experience" while still in school. If more students took advantage of them then maybe more of the nation's recent graduates would be able to compete in the job market.

[mandarin.orange]

lydibird - thanks for the insight with recent grads, and good points. My initial reaction to their interviewees was a bit similar, but I didn't want to assume right off the bat, and entertained the possibility that this was an artifact of the journalist's viewpoint. But the quote from the Bio major suggested that degree = job (no mention of internships, research, networking, good or poor grades, etc.), and the Creative Writing major seemed rather out-of-touch with what skills are needed or marketable.

Sure, you have not spent money on the degree....but you could have been establishing yourself in a different field and rising through the ranks (and an increased salary).

I would say that this isn't a guarantee, either. Many career trajectories are becoming, at best, very uncertain, and at worst, obsolete. Incrementally increasing salaries aren't necessarily the norm; pay freezes, furloughs, cutting bonuses, etc. have grown more commonplace.

Edited April 25, 2012 by mandarin.orange

[Pauli]

Consider: Spending 6 years getting a PhD while fully funded. This is followed by years of postdoctoral work. And then not being able to find a professorship. Sure, you have not spent money on the degree....but you could have been establishing yourself in a different field and rising through the ranks (and an increased salary).

Not all PhDs just want to be professors. A decent number in engineering and science want to go off and work at national or industry research labs, where they often require graduate degrees. There's always a need for them.

When I graduated from college in 1998, the world was wide-open. Everything was grand. I could do anything! I could be anything!

Somehow, it just does not seem to be the case anymore.

The world doesn't always need more, say, archaeologists.

[hbeels]

Pauli is right--not all PhDs go on to--or even want to go on to--work at universities. There are many opportunities for PhDs outside academia... I would suggest trying not to limit yourself to a single, exclusive career path. Keep your options open! You'll be more likely to find something in your area of interest, and you will probably be happier in job X, even if job Y was your first choice.

[Spore]

Not all PhDs just want to be professors. A decent number in engineering and science want to go off and work at national or industry research labs, where they often require graduate degrees. There's always a need for them.

While, this is in theory true, in reality it is not so easy to get a professor job OR an industry job following PhD graduation. When I finished my PhD in Molecular Genetics and Microbiology in 2008, I was told by professors and people in industry (pharma) that I MUST complete a multiyear postdoc in industry or the university in order to be competitive for many positions such as Research Scientist at big pharma company Z.

It used to be you were considered a "sell-out" if you did not remain in academia and instead opted for a more cushier existence in industry. I found it was impossible for me to get hired into industry and instead submitted to becoming a postdoctoral fellow.

Very rarely did I ever discuss with my PhD cohort what was to become of us once we graduated. Only 3 are left in postdoc land and 2 of those want out. Many are teaching at the community college level. Our PIs could only advise us on how to become a PI and even that information and advice was dated. There is limited career services available for PhDs.

For those that are humanities based, the options out of the academy are slimmer. In general, you are being trained to be an academic. A teacher of some sort.

Making light of the situation does not make the truth go away. It is difficult to find a hot shiny job post PhD.

I went to a fine program, had an excellent PI, had great recommendations and papers.

I left science and am currently being retrained in a different field.

[Dal PhDer]

Out of those looking for work, everyone I know who got involved with their education more deeply than simply doing their assignments and passing exams has found employment relevent to their degree.

This is so true!

I am sure it's very field dependent, but if you get involved with TA and RA work, you would be surprised as to what opportunities can open up for you and the networks you build. I think this is also a crucial part of your PhD process- getting experience in applying your skills, working with data, presenting/writing, working with interdisciplinary teams, etc...These are the skills that employers want to see, and once you graduate if you have a full toolbox, you'll be an attractive candidate. It is hard though because you have to balance the ability to take on more work (lots of programs and advisors are against it)..but I think this is where students need to fight a bit and think of the bigger picture. You can just do your degree and pave yourself for one road (say academics), you need to really dive head first into all opportunities and say "would this experience help me in the future?"

I think a lot of students don't consider jobs outside of academics. I am always trolling work site for government, private, academic, etc. jobs. It also doesn't hurt to apply and get the feedback. If you apply and get a rejection right away, it's worth while contacting them and asking what type of skills/qualifications outside of what they stated they are looking for and what you could do to make yourself a successful application. Also, if you get an interview it's worthwhile to go for the experience!

I think the job market is poor for everyone...but I also think that if you look at every opportunity as a door leading to many great things, you'll be more successful. Students who box themselves into one little niche will have a difficult time getting work over someone who has a variety of experience and skills.

[ANDS!]

The 23-year-old graduated in 2010 with a creative writing degree.

Sorry, but this tells me all I need to know. If you are not networking while pursuing a non-quantitative degree like this, you are setting yourself up for failure.

[CarlieE]

Really interesting thread! Here's an article I read in the CHE about graduates, career counseling and jobs outside of academia of anyone's interested.

http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-Schools-Need-to/131595/

[mandarin.orange]

Our PIs could only advise us on how to become a PI and even that information and advice was dated.

I could not have articulated this better. Indeed, this has been my cohort's (rather bewildered) observation. We had a core class where a each week, a different prof from the dept led the seminar...many saw it is an opportunity to discuss, advise, or (in one case) lay into us about what we needed to do NOW to prep for the TT job market. One finally revealed that the university tracks how many grads in each dept head off to TT jobs, and this is a big factor (if not THE biggest) in resources the dept gets from the college.