What Do We Think About Dating other Grad Students?

[WhaWhat]

I was curious about what others thought about dating in grad school, esp. other grad students.

I've heard that grad school is the last opportunity to meet a large group of intellectual and ambitious people at once. Since educated people tend to marry other educated people and meeting people once you're part of the workforce is difficult, is grad school a great place to meet a SO?

Or is dating other grad students a bad idea because of professional considerations? Should people just avoid dating grad students in their own program (ex. MPPs but not MPAs)? Does it matter by program level because of the potential for students to be your close colleagues? (terminal masters - may interact with some day vs. PhD very likely to see again)

From previous graduate experiences, I've seen:

1. Cautionary tales: the serial dater who makes her way through 1/3 of the student body and gets a bad reputation; the couple that dramatically breaks up RIGHT before finals and bombs; the guy that cheats on his wife with a fellow grad and gets divorced; the guy who employs predatory-like dating techniques and is labeled the village douche

2. Abstainers: I've also seen people so focused on their work or determined to always remain 'professional' that they won't date at all during grad school or vow not to date ppl in their program because the potential for future complications (see cautionary tales). Some were respected for it and some were negatively viewed as over intense and incapable of seeking fulfillment outside their studies.

3. Happy endings: I have also seen some people meet through grad school and marry or start a strong LTR

So is it off limits?

Is it more about the way you go about it?

Are the rules different for men and women? (whether fair or not)

How would you view someone who did or did not date? (assuming they were single of course!)

What are your thoughts??

[SeriousSillyPutty]

Oooh good question!

One problem I've had in dating after college is that, in the "real world", there aren't as many opportunities for you to get to know people and become emotionally invested in their personhood without dating. (As opposed to in college, where there were classes, homework cram sessions, dorm peeps, etc.)

So I'm hoping that, while busy and stressful, grad school will at least provide space for getting to know people around my age, and that dating would be a possibility. Now, in all reality, most of the students in my department are fellow females, so I don't anticipate finding Mr. Right any time soon.

At my undergrad there were grad students I worked with who dated, and I believe they met there at school. The ones I know of are still together (post grad school) and some are married. So, like you say, it can be done.

[WalterBenjamin]

graduate students do date. After all, you often end up in very close quarters and extremely busy most of the time. There are bound to be romances. Do be careful though. The quarters ARE small, so things are bound to get ugly if you break up before your comps.

[fuzzylogician]

I used to think I didn't want to date anyone I worked with. But realistically, grad school is where I spend most of my time and where I meet the most people. Blocking that option for dating has made my life very difficult in the past. I mean, random dating does work for some people, but it's much easier to find like-minded individuals among your fellow students.

Dating a fellow student lead to complications, just like any situation where you date someone who you work with. You have to take into account that things may not work out, and you'll still have to see each other every day until one of you graduates (or leaves). But if you and the person you are dating are reasonable and talk about this eventuality right from the get go, it can work and it can be wonderful. There are a number of couples in my department and there are also some former couples who broke up, but so far in all those cases, it seems to have worked out fine (including the ones who broke up). Our field also has a large proportion of linguists who are married to other linguists, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that is the case in other fields as well.

[ktel]

There's a married couple in my research group. Not sure if they met before or after.

I have always kept dating very separate. I have never dated anyone I worked with or had classes with. The only thing that came close was dating someone in engineering, but a different year and discipline. None of my serious relationships have ended amicably, so it's probably for the best that I do it this way.

[CarlieE]

I'm seriously dating within my department. My bf have 2 classes together as well. The relationship is going really well and we're moving together to where I got accepted into a Phd program... (we live together now already)

BUT, although our situation turned out really well, I could see that there could be problems with "in-dating". Being in the same dept, field and courses could result in a competitive atmosphere that COULD be really good or really bad. You might be competing for the same grants, fellowships etc. And then there's the issue of spending too much time together and not being able to get away. We've had arguments that have sprung up just because we've gotten frustrated with being around each other too much; but we recognize the problem and then deliberately spend time apart. Also, we do have a lot of mutual friends - but we also have maintained separate social circles as well so that we have people to hang out with WITHOUT each other.

There has to be a certain amount of trust; I have a lot of male friends and some of them are his friends as well, but my bf acknowledges and understands that I need to spend time with these friends without him around just like I did before we started dating. And vice versa.

Despite all this, I think that because we are in the same field and deal with the same issues, we can understand and relate to each other's problems. Before my current bf I dated a man that was not in school and even though he was understanding, he couldn't fully relate to my "work" problems or complaints.

I think "in-dating" is just like "out-dating" - endogamy or exogamy - it's still dating and either way comes with issues and benefits.

[ANDS!]

No different than "workplace romances", and carries the same caveats - most people do it, and if you're going to do it, be smart about it. For people moving to new cities, I'm surprised it isn't just accepted as fact that it will happen - you're most likely to see these people more than anyone else.

[WhaWhat]

One problem I've had in dating after college is that, in the "real world", there aren't as many opportunities for you to get to know people and become emotionally invested in their personhood without dating. (As opposed to in college, where there were classes, homework cram sessions, dorm peeps, etc.)

So I'm hoping that, while busy and stressful, grad school will at least provide space for getting to know people around my age, and that dating would be a possibility.

This is so very true! Undergrad def. has opportunities to socialize, but I think grad school is conducive to a stronger bond with more like-minded people. It's like the experience is demanding in such a way that you develop a survivor's bond with your peers. And even if there are mostly women in your program, I bet that widening your circle will lead to Mr. Right!

Our field also has a large proportion of linguists who are married to other linguists, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that is the case in other fields as well.

I have noticed that there are a good number of professionals and academics that are married to others in their field. I wonder how many met in grad school . . .

I have always kept dating very separate. I have never dated anyone I worked with or had classes with. The only thing that came close was dating someone in engineering, but a different year and discipline. None of my serious relationships have ended amicably, so it's probably for the best that I do it this way.

Lol. I am not usually friends with the ex's, either, so this is something to keep in mind. BUT Do you ever wonder if there was someone you ignored/rejected though who could have been a great potential partner??

I'm seriously dating within my department. My bf have 2 classes together as well. The relationship is going really well and we're moving together to where I got accepted into a Phd program... (we live together now already)

BUT, although our situation turned out really well, I could see that there could be problems with "in-dating". Being in the same dept, field and courses could result in a competitive atmosphere that COULD be really good or really bad. You might be competing for the same grants, fellowships etc. And then there's the issue of spending too much time together and not being able to get away. We've had arguments that have sprung up just because we've gotten frustrated with being around each other too much; but we recognize the problem and then deliberately spend time apart. Also, we do have a lot of mutual friends - but we also have maintained separate social circles as well so that we have people to hang out with WITHOUT each other.

There has to be a certain amount of trust; I have a lot of male friends and some of them are his friends as well, but my bf acknowledges and understands that I need to spend time with these friends without him around just like I did before we started dating. And vice versa.

Despite all this, I think that because we are in the same field and deal with the same issues, we can understand and relate to each other's problems. Before my current bf I dated a man that was not in school and even though he was understanding, he couldn't fully relate to my "work" problems or complaints.

I think "in-dating" is just like "out-dating" - endogamy or exogamy - it's still dating and either way comes with issues and benefits.

This gives me hope. I'm glad you pointed out the need for some separation, too. I don't know anything about endogamy or exogamy w/o referencing wikipedia, but you have a point about issues and benefits. I guess a big concern for me, and perhaps others, is that as a grad student, you're at the beginning stages of a career. You don't have the years of reputation or goodwill to insulate you from any mishaps, in fact you are laying the seeds for it at GS. So a screaming match with the SO in study group (I've seen it happen ) may be detrimental to more than your relationship. In reality, most of us have better control that this, but love makes you do dumb, dumb things . . . even us smart people

That being said, I'm have no desire to be single until I'm 45 just because I'm dedicated to my work and need to uphold a reputation!

[TakeruK]

Although I haven't seen any really crazy stuff (e.g. screaming matches) from couples who are dating each other in the same department, I don't think I would view these people differently if I did see one. I think I can differentiate someone's social and professional life, even if they mix up sometimes. For example, at conferences or other social activities, I see people sometimes overindulging perhaps. But that doesn't make me think "oh well, so-and-so likes to get drunk, his or her research must not be that great", or "wow this presenter looks like they are having a hangover, no need to listen then!". Sure it's not 100% professional, especially if you show signs of it while presenting, but I don't think it really strongly affects how I feel about a person.

The dangers to yourself I think are more important than your reputation, for dating in the same department, I think (e.g. how would you feel seeing them around all the time). I think outside of department is probably the same as dating a non-student, except with the benefit of them understanding grad school life.

What about people who date before entering grad school and are in the same field? I don't think anyone will purposely avoid applying to the same programs as their partners!

[OregonGal]

I was curious about what others thought about dating in grad school, esp. other grad students.

So is it off limits?

Is it more about the way you go about it?

Are the rules different for men and women? (whether fair or not)

How would you view someone who did or did not date? (assuming they were single of course!)

What are your thoughts??

I think it's not off-limits, and it is about the way you go about it. I plan on forming friendships and dating while in graduate school, in part because I haven't had a lot of opportunity to make social connections and date in the past few years due to a lot of hopping around the world. This will be the first time I will be in one place for two years interacting with the same 150+ people since undergrad. Now, I'm not going to be actively pursuing my local grad students, and I can see how someone who appears more focused on dating than on school might not come off too well in the eyes of their peers. I'm just saying that if the opportunity to date presents itself, I'm not going to say "nope, I'm focusing solely on school right now".

I think in general that in terms of "rules", the same biases apply as dating in the workplace. Women can sometimes be looked down on for dating within the workplace, more so than men, or are seen as less "serious" for dating because its assumed that they'll marry, have a family, and not continue working at the same pace as the men. This I think would especially be a concern for women in STEM fields or those pursuing tenure track positions.

I don't think that I'd look at someone differently if they were dating vs single. Now, the way that they were acting within their personal relationships might affect my view of them. Someone who dropped the ball on a group project because of relationship drama, for example, or who left a trail of broken hearts in their wake, or didn't really treat the other person well in the relationship, would not come off too well in my personal opinion of them based on how they treat people and responsibilities. So in that sense it's the way you go about personal relationships, the same as with anyone else you meet through any other circumstances.

[sam_1]

I would probably avoid dating someone in the same department, mostly because I need space - and what would we have left to talk about? :-)

That said, I would probably tend towards someone with very similar interests and goals: someone I can relate to and who knows enough about

academia in general and my field...

But life happens, and I don't think it makes sense to go into grad school with excessively strict rules, but rather to have an open mind and use

common sense. I think it also depends on the size of the department; for example, a larger one would provide a helpful buffer of

sorts should things get ugly.

[UnlikelyGrad]

I don't think it's wrong to date someone in the same department, assuming your department is reasonably-sized. But dating someone in the same research group would be terribly awkward. (It's happened in our department, and the people in question had to continue working together for years after they broke up. Ugh.)

Our department shares a building with another department, which a lot of grad students I know have used as a source of people to date.

As for me, I will date outside of school...only because I'm so much older than the other students. I am *not* going to be a cougar!!

[rose1]

I don't think there's anything wrong with dating someone in your program, if it naturally happens, but I also wouldn't treat grad school as a matchmaking service. I wouldn't want to miss out on all the things my grad school has to offer by being stuck in the mindset that this is my "last opportunity to meet a large group of intellectual and ambitious people at once." After all, grad school is WAY more expensive than eHarmony.

[tardisblue]

My parents met in graduate school, married right before they received their PhDs, and now teach at the same school (happy ending, essentially). Their advice to me was that grad school is a great place to meet people but that it can be seriously difficult to find jobs in the same city if you do end up together after graduation. Plenty of their friends have had to make major sacrifices (like being adjunct profs indefinitely) in order to maintain their relationships. This is particularly bad considering the current job market. Just something to consider when thinking about marrying a fellow grad student. There shouldn't be a lot of problems dating within the program, though. I guess it kind of depends on how large the program is and what the dynamics are like.

[StrangeLight]

i absolutely abstain from dating within my department. i've seen a lot of my friends do it and they end up living out their relationship in the grad lounge. even when things are going well, somehow everyone else is made a part of their drama. when things aren't going well, it gets awkward. couples decided they wanted to TA together, then broke up, but still had to work with each other. others can't be in the same room as each other. it turns a work environment into junior high. now, if the people in question could keep their relationship outside the department walls, then that would be fine, but in my experience, they haven't. it's sort of a pain in the ass for everyone else to not be able to go into their workplace without getting sucked into someone else's personal life. in my experience, all of the intra-departmental relationships i've seen have had one person straight out of undergrad who coupled up within a month of arriving at grad school. maybe if people were older/more mature/not so quick to jump into "serious" work romances, it would be different.

in general, i don't date grad students at all, even if they're in other fields or other schools. it's not a hard and fast rule (i did see someone who was a PhD student in a different field, but i wouldn't really call what we did "dating"), but i really value being in relationships with non-academics. i'm not from an ivy tower background and i really crave the ability to have deep, meaningful, intimate conversations and connections that aren't about work, books, papers, the stress of grad school, etc. i hate talking shop during my (rather fleeting) free time. i do enough of that when i'm actually working or hanging out with my grad school friends. right now i'm in an LTR with a non-academic and in addition to all the other awesome things about him, i like that he helps keep my world a little more broad and open. i know if i dated someone in my department that doing work or complaining about doing work would become my whole life.

[StrangeLight]

That being said, I'm have no desire to be single until I'm 45 just because I'm dedicated to my work and need to uphold a reputation!

you know it's possible to meet and date someone that isn't in your department, though, right? like... you can refuse to date within your department and not be alone forever. you act like it's all or nothing.

[3point14]

I'll be starting my program this fall at the same institution my boyfriend is attending (though we're in different fields). I guess it's a little different though since we'll have been dating for over 1.5 years by the time I start.

[WhaWhat]

you know it's possible to meet and date someone that isn't in your department, though, right? like... you can refuse to date within your department and not be alone forever. you act like it's all or nothing.

Hyperbole, dear . I don't think failing to date in grad school would preclude me from having a relationship for the next 20 years either! Like, I was trying to make the point that either extreme may be troublesome.

That being said, there are certain fields where you only see people in your program. So I don't know if dating outside your department is a realistic option for everyone . . . .

Edited May 8, 2012 by WhaWhat

[WhaWhat]

Although I haven't seen any really crazy stuff (e.g. screaming matches) from couples who are dating each other in the same department, I don't think I would view these people differently if I did see one. I think I can differentiate someone's social and professional life, even if they mix up sometimes. For example, at conferences or other social activities, I see people sometimes overindulging perhaps. But that doesn't make me think "oh well, so-and-so likes to get drunk, his or her research must not be that great", or "wow this presenter looks like they are having a hangover, no need to listen then!". Sure it's not 100% professional, especially if you show signs of it while presenting, but I don't think it really strongly affects how I feel about a person.

I commend you for this ability, but I think many people judge and judge hard. both on character and capability.

[WhaWhat]

I think in general that in terms of "rules", the same biases apply as dating in the workplace. Women can sometimes be looked down on for dating within the workplace, more so than men, or are seen as less "serious" for dating because its assumed that they'll marry, have a family, and not continue working at the same pace as the men. This I think would especially be a concern for women in STEM fields or those pursuing tenure track positions.

I don't think there's anything wrong with dating someone in your program, if it naturally happens, but I also wouldn't treat grad school as a matchmaking service. I wouldn't want to miss out on all the things my grad school has to offer by being stuck in the mindset that this is my "last opportunity to meet a large group of intellectual and ambitious people at once." After all, grad school is WAY more expensive than eHarmony.

Reading these made me wonder about how women may view other women who (aggressively) date in grad school. If you thought someone was "treat[ing] grad school as a matchmaking service," would you be resentful (or maybe just a bit annoyed) because they may seem to be perpetuating a stereotype (i.e. that women are all just looking for husbands)?

Edited May 8, 2012 by WhaWhat

[ktel]

That being said, there are certain fields where you only see people in your program. So I don't know if dating outside your department is a realistic option for everyone . . . .

I don't see how your life could be so insular that you don't have any relationships outside of your program. I've always tried to keep a somewhat diversified group of friends, albeit only because I play a sport. So I have school friends and rugby friends.

[Dal PhDer]

oh my goodness!! Where do I start!!! Ahh!

Ok- I think dating other grad students is okay...dating other grad students in your lab...uuugh.

I think people need to be careful about departmental/lab dating- especially if you are trying to 'hide it'. Don't. We all know. And you will become the butt of so many inside jokes. I also think that this has the opportunity to look bad on the students from the supervisor's point of view, and other lab mates.

I am single, and I often wonder if I were to date someone now, if it would be easier to date a fellow grad student verses non-student. On one side, a non-student offers a complete and utter break from the lifestyle and would give a different perspective, however, a fellow student understands the work/stress demands, the internal processes of defenses, comps, student/advisor relationships. I am not sure if it's about having 'more in common', as I would like to find a SO that I connect with on many levels outside of school/work, but I think it would be easier with a student, and they can understand the sacrifices and commitments that you have to make during this process.

[fuzzylogician]

Reading these made me wonder about how women may view other women who (aggressively) date in grad school. If you thought someone was "treat[ing] grad school as a matchmaking service," would you be resentful (or maybe just a bit annoyed) because they may seem to be perpetuating a stereotype (i.e. that women are all just looking for husbands)?

People who are the same [gender/skin color/nationality/religion/sexual orientation/height/eye color/other] as me always do stereotypical (or otherwise unwelcome) things that don't represent who I am. I don't worry about it.

[but there are MUCH easier ways to look for husbands than attend a top school for a 5-year PhD. Just sayin']

[rose1]

Reading these made me wonder about how women may view other women who (aggressively) date in grad school. If you thought someone was "treat[ing] grad school as a matchmaking service," would you be resentful (or maybe just a bit annoyed) because they may seem to be perpetuating a stereotype (i.e. that women are all just looking for husbands)?

Oh no! That's not what I meant at all! It wouldn't bother me if any woman (or any man for that matter - my post was gender neutral) was aggressively dating in grad school. I just know that actively seeking a relationship can be REALLY distracting for myself, personally, and that hunting for a boyfriend in grad school would almost certainly be a trade-off, where I wouldn't be as focused on my program. And if I was being so aggressive out of the fear that this was my LAST CHANCE for happiness, that would be too bad, because I think that would be a misconception that might make me miss out on some of the reasons I am going to grad school in the first place.

That's not to say I don't find dating a satisfying, stress-relieving activity, which is why I stated that I wouldn't be opposed to it if it happened naturally. This is theoretical for me anyway, as my boyfriend of a number of years will be relocating with me and our dog.

That being said, I can totally visualize a situation in which a person, male or female, who was insecure and constantly needing validation from a string of meaningless yet dramatic grad school flings, who was throwing off the group dynamic and constantly redirecting attention from the subject matter, could be super annoying in close quarters. However, I don't think that has anything to do with perpetuating a stereotype.

[Ennue]

This is a relevant subject to me! Coming into grad school last year I had only one rule... Don't date fellow grad students in the same program. And of course now I am dating a fellow student and I'm incredibly happy. I definitely wasn't hunting for a partner or looking for validation, but we have a lot in common and get along very well, and one thing led to another. In general I think we don't annoy the other students, apart from sometimes hanging out in each other's office with other students there trying to work, but in our program that happens all the time, not just with us two.

If you do find someone you really like in your program, I would recommend waiting a month or two and just get to know each other slowly, rather than jumping into 'dating' immediately. That should minimize the chances of 'meaningless yet dramatic grad school flings' But I'm glad I didn't stick to my rule of not dating a fellow student!