Where can I go with my stats?

[EvanB]

Alright, to start with I graduated in December of 2011 with a degree in psychology from the University of Georgia. I have two and a half years of experience as an undergraduate research assistant and I spent most of that time researching the same topic that I would like to continue to research during the course of my PhD.

Basic Stats:

GPA: 3.41

GRE Verbal: 165 (96th)

GRE Quantitative: 155 (69th) (I didn't study appropriately for the gemoetry involved).

GRE Writing: 3.5 (I misclicked and ended one of the writing questions half way through).

I have continued my research through the lab at UGA since my graduation and am working on some publications involving disgust sensitivity and it's relationship in the decision making of liberals and conservatives. I have also worked on how mindfullness changes conservatism and how sensitivity to other emotions is different for liberals/conservatives.

I plan to continue my research for, at minimum, the next couple of semesters before applying to grad school and hopefully secure 1-3 publications during that time.

I am looking to work with someone who works on issues closely releated to the ones I have described above. I know that these topics are being researched at Cornell, NYU, and the University of Auckland (New Zealand) to name a few. Can anyone help me figure out my chances of getting in to one of these programs? Should I retake the GRE?

Thanks.

[Arcadian]

So your GRE was a disaster, your GPA is decent (by grad school standards), and you have solid research experience and clearly defined goals.

Definitely retake the GRE. It's less important than everything else, yet every committee looks at GRE scores and eliminates people based on that.

After you've done that, I think your chances are quite good, assuming you get helpful letters of recommendation, write a clear statement of purpose, and apply to the programs that best fit your particular research goals (and your people of interest are taking new grad students - contact them and find out).

Edited May 11, 2012 by Arcadian

[EvanB]

I thought that I would need to retake the GRE, skating by on my verbal score doesn't really seem possible. Could you give me an idea of the minimums that I should aim for to avoid being eliminated early in the process?

I have been working in the same lab for several years and have developed great relationships with the professor I work under and the grad students in the lab. I can definitely get good letters from the guys in the lab and from some other professors that I am still good friends with from some of my undergrad classes. Which brings me to another question: Would I be better off getting letters from PhD students in the lab who know me very well and share some of my interests or from professors who I am friendly with from classes? I definitely have a great one lined up from the professor that I have worked directly with but I don't know the other professors as well and they have not really seen me in a lab setting.

[lewin]

Would I be better off getting letters from PhD students in the lab who know me very well and share some of my interests or from professors who I am friendly with from classes?

Professors.

But here is a secret: Some profs have their grad students write the letter, then the prof edits/signs it. Works well for situations like you describe where the day-to-day is done by grad students. I'm not sure of a delicate way to bring this up, however.

[crazygirl2012]

Publications will help you a lot. Your research experience and your focus on one area are great. I'd echo everything Arcadian said. As far as a minimum GRE score, it really depends on where you want to go. Do some searching online and find the averages for the programs you're interested in. Sometimes these are difficult or impossible to find, but it's worth a try. Some programs (mostly the ones that are both large and highly ranked) have a GRE cutoff score. They won't publish that score. If you're below it, they'll automatically reject your application. I think the cutoff scores tend to be in the 1200-1300 range (by the old scoring system) but I could be wrong on that. Cornell and NYU probably have cutoff scores. I don't know about Auckland. Wikipedia has a conversion chart for old to new GRE scores. It's good to know where you stand on both, even though you already know your percentiles. Study a lot for the GRE before you take it again. Not only is it expensive, it starts to reflect badly on you if you take it more than twice. Congrats on your verbal score! Your math isn't half bad either, and it sounds like your writing score was just a fluke because of the misclick. You have the potential to do really well on the GRE. Your GPA is a little low, so your GRE and research experience should help you a lot.

Side note-- sounds like you're in social psych? My friend got rejected from the Ph.D. program at NYU, but they accepted her as a master's student even though she didn't apply for the master's program. She had already accepted another school's Ph.D. program offer, so she didn't take it. I don't think it was funded.

[svh]

Don't think about attaining a minimum. Just try to nail a perfect score. Just practice A LOT. And try not to take it more than two or three times.

[EvanB]

Luckily taking an additional year or more off will allow me to put a fair amount of time into preparing to take the GRE a second time. If I study a little every day over the next few months I think I can improve my scores. I can definitely improve my Quantitative since I was caught off guard by some of the geometry and I can easily remedy that situation. Also, I know everyone says the writing is not important but I worry that a score as low as mine will raise eyebrows, and it can be fixed easily as well since it is due primarily to a misclick.

Is there anything else I should be focusing on to improve my chances? Like I said I am staying involved in research during my time off and continuing to learn more about SPSS. What else can I do to make my application more competitive?

[Arcadian]

[...]skating by on my verbal score doesn't really seem possible.

But your verbal score was also really low, right? You said it was 165 on a scale of 800.

[lucere]

Luckily taking an additional year or more off will allow me to put a fair amount of time into preparing to take the GRE a second time. If I study a little every day over the next few months I think I can improve my scores. I can definitely improve my Quantitative since I was caught off guard by some of the geometry and I can easily remedy that situation. Also, I know everyone says the writing is not important but I worry that a score as low as mine will raise eyebrows, and it can be fixed easily as well since it is due primarily to a misclick.

Is there anything else I should be focusing on to improve my chances? Like I said I am staying involved in research during my time off and continuing to learn more about SPSS. What else can I do to make my application more competitive?

The GPA is going to be a problem for schools that employ a ranking of applicants by a combo score of GPA/GRE. They won't even look at your application if you don't pass an initial hurdle, unfortunately. You can attempt to save yourself from this trap by emailing POIs and asking if they are taking students -- getting yourself on their radar could be critical if you fail to pass an unspecified criterion. Can you take additional courses somewhere and demonstrate that you are capable of getting As? My thought is that for the most competitive schools, your GPA might be prohibitively low (esp. depending on the other applicants). One way of getting around this is to get a masters and demonstrate smarts in that program. (Then nobody cares about undergrad.)

[lucere]

But your verbal score was also really low, right? You said it was 165 on a scale of 800.

I assumed that was the new scoring system, which is why what looks like a ridiculously low 165 is actually in the mid-90s percentile.

[EvanB]

Yes it is the new scoring system which is 130-170. My Verbal is 165 my Quantitative is 155 both out of 170. Is getting myself on their radar the best thing I can do? Would any type of specific volunteer work help?

[lucere]

Yes it is the new scoring system which is 130-170. My Verbal is 165 my Quantitative is 155 both out of 170. Is getting myself on their radar the best thing I can do? Would any type of specific volunteer work help?

Assuming you are going for a pHD, research experience in the topic of interest with someone who is actively publishing in the field (and thus will be able to write you a good rec letter) will be most helpful. It will help you clarify your interests and provide support for your statement of purpose -- "I'm interested in ... To that end, I have been working with..." The type of volunteer work (because I assume social psych labs don't have the budget to pay for lab managers, which is a common route in my field of cognitive neuro psych) would depend on what would be most akin to what you actually want to do in grad school. Most likely, this means you'll want to try to get experience working with participants and running experiments. Ideally you'd aim to get a publication (really strengthens apps), but that's unlikely given your time frame, so even just a poster presentation would be a helpful demonstration of your ability to get things done.

Also, with contacting POIs, I'd hold off until closer to the next application cycle just because I don't like coming across like a pest...also, come application season, you'd be a distant memory.

[Arcadian]

I assumed that was the new scoring system, which is why what looks like a ridiculously low 165 is actually in the mid-90s percentile.

LOL! I totally forgot there was a new GRE. Well...then I revoke my previous statement. Good job on that GRE!

Edited May 14, 2012 by Arcadian

[EvanB]

Assuming you are going for a pHD, research experience in the topic of interest with someone who is actively publishing in the field (and thus will be able to write you a good rec letter) will be most helpful. It will help you clarify your interests and provide support for your statement of purpose -- "I'm interested in ... To that end, I have been working with..." The type of volunteer work (because I assume social psych labs don't have the budget to pay for lab managers, which is a common route in my field of cognitive neuro psych) would depend on what would be most akin to what you actually want to do in grad school. Most likely, this means you'll want to try to get experience working with participants and running experiments. Ideally you'd aim to get a publication (really strengthens apps), but that's unlikely given your time frame, so even just a poster presentation would be a helpful demonstration of your ability to get things done.

Also, with contacting POIs, I'd hold off until closer to the next application cycle just because I don't like coming across like a pest...also, come application season, you'd be a distant memory.

So I should basically keep doing what I am doing? Right now I am still working in the psych lab at UGA (even though I am no longer a student, I graduated this past December) and continuing to work within my specific area of interest (emotional decision making- lib/con). I have worked with the same professor for several years and he and I are going to send a paper out by the end of the month on mindfulness and disgust (still don't know that it will make it through the process in time). He is going to allow me to continue working on these topics so that I can remain involved with research in the time before grad school.

I don't know if there is time to start looking for a way to present a poster, but I done quite a bit of research over the last couple of years on several topics so I think I have more than enough material to make a poster or two. Any advice would be appreciated, as would any reccomendations for other things I can be doing to distinguish myself.

[lucere]

So I should basically keep doing what I am doing? Right now I am still working in the psych lab at UGA (even though I am no longer a student, I graduated this past December) and continuing to work within my specific area of interest (emotional decision making- lib/con). I have worked with the same professor for several years and he and I are going to send a paper out by the end of the month on mindfulness and disgust (still don't know that it will make it through the process in time). He is going to allow me to continue working on these topics so that I can remain involved with research in the time before grad school.

I don't know if there is time to start looking for a way to present a poster, but I done quite a bit of research over the last couple of years on several topics so I think I have more than enough material to make a poster or two. Any advice would be appreciated, as would any reccomendations for other things I can be doing to distinguish myself.

It sounds like you're on a good path. I'm not sure what the major conferences are for your field, but your current advisor would know. It costs $ to register and travel, but you could try seeing which ones exist and submit an abstract. These are usually sent in six months before the actual meeting, but at least it could go on your resume/pubs section as something you submitted & have upcoming. It'll make you look like an active member of the research community (because you are!). Also, you can include the paper you're sending out whereever applicable on apps listed as "(submitted)". They will understand that turnaround is slow, and even tenured profs have "submitted" papers on their CVs. It demonstrates that you've completed serious work. If it has a publication date, even better, but that's out of your power.

I'm not sure what your statistics is like, but you could try taking a class as an extension student or at a community college, not for a degree, but to show that you're continuing to grow your skill set.

[EvanB]

My statistics is pretty good; I am experienced in the use of SPSS.

I am definitely going to go ahead and start trying to register to present at conferences, after talking to my professor he thinks that we have enough data to make several undergraduate level presentations. How do submitted entries rank next to presented entries? I was thinking that if I don't have an impressive enough CV by the December cutoff for applications that I might be able to wait another year and use the time padding my stats. Would there be a downside to my applying this year and then reapplying again next year if I don't get in this round? How do schools feel about multiple applications from the same person?