Columbia's MA in History and Literature

[thedig13]

Hello, all.

I've been doing research on prospective programs I might be interested in after my undergraduate degree. As a dual-major in History and Creative Writing, I'm especially interested in the intersection between History and Literature (i.e.: constructed historical "truth" and "self-conscious fiction"), and I thought this program offered through Columbia (but located in Paris) might be good for me.

http://www.historyandliterature.columbia.edu/

Unfortunately, I don't know much about this program, outside of what is stated on the program website, and nobody on TGC has really discussed it at all. I'm wondering if anybody's heard about this program, and if they can tell me what they know about it. I know a number of people have discussed the Dual-Master's program with Columbia/LSE, which is the other History MA option offered through Columbia.

Thanks, all.

[TMP]

It's cash cow. I don't expect this to be rigorous.

[thedig13]

It's cash cow. I don't expect this to be rigorous.

How is this different from the Columbia/LSE program, which has also been described as a "cash cow"?

Are both of these less-than-ideal for individuals who have a PhD in their long-term objectives?

[jogatoronto]

I was just accepted to the program this afternoon. I have a private source of funding already so that cash cow aspect isn't much of an issue.

Most of my friends in LSE's dual degree loved it and since I'm currently enrolled at LSE for my masters I thought that I could create my own dual degree.

I don't know if I'm going to go. This program offers fellowships by the way.

[thedig13]

I was just accepted to the program this afternoon. I have a private source of funding already so that cash cow aspect isn't much of an issue.

Most of my friends in LSE's dual degree loved it and since I'm currently enrolled at LSE for my masters I thought that I could create my own dual degree.

I don't know if I'm going to go. This program offers fellowships by the way.

Do you have any sort of information about the long-term success of the Columbia/LSE program's students in terms of getting into PhD programs in History and related fields?

[jogatoronto]

The Dual degree program is great. You get methodology and language training and you also get good (international) contacts. You literally have two years of an Ma/PhD program in history under your belt from two universities with a lot to offer, which, if used wisely, hopefully gives you a bit of an advantage when applying for PhD programs anywhere in the world. I know that students in this program have been successful in their applications to PhD's in history. I know of one student who was accepted by a few excellent departments.

[oseirus]

Do you have any sort of information about the long-term success of the Columbia/LSE program's students in terms of getting into PhD programs in History and related fields?

I really do wish I knew the success rate as well ... cash cow and all

[jogatoronto]

I really do wish I knew the success rate as well ... cash cow and all

It might be very difficult to gauge the success rate of the Dual Degree. I think that most of the students in the dual degree do not apply for PhD's and most of those that do apply take a gap year or two in between the Dual Degree and a PhD.

@thedig, The things that made the MA in History and Literature attractive to me were the location (I can improve my French in Paris and also gain some experience with the French archives), ENS (great partner institution that some of the scholars who have influenced my thinking have attended...Althusser, Fanon, Cesaire), and the funding situation (the Program is generous with its money if you apply early and submit a strong application and even if you apply on the last day you can still get some funding).

Edited May 27, 2012 by jogatoronto

[Safferz]

Do you have any sort of information about the long-term success of the Columbia/LSE program's students in terms of getting into PhD programs in History and related fields?

This is anecdotal evidence, but I met two students in that program during my campus visits earlier this year. One at Yale, and another at Columbia and Harvard.

That said, I also met undergraduates from lower tier institutions and schools I've never heard of, so it's not your program is what gets you into a PhD program, but your research accomplishments and promise. You don't need a designer MA for that, but like any masters program it can certainly help you refine your research interests, show an adcomm that you're capable of graduate level work and give you more time to get publications and conferences under your belt (all things that make you competitive for top PhD programs).

[virmundi]

I second what Safferz said -- at this level, it is less about the pedigree of your institution and degree and more about who you work with and what you do with your opportunities. A dual-degree from Columbia that offers the opportunities you've described sounds like it could be a great chance for you to demonstrate your ability to work at a very high level, but it certainly won't automatically position you more competitively than any number of other options.

[New England Nat]

What other's have said, but I think it's worth emphasizing the problem with the "cash cow" masters from places like Columbia and Chicago. I'm sure there are some people who have wonderful experiances from them, but I've heard a great many bitter stories from people who went through those programs. The usual story is that the professors are not particularly invested in the masters students and in the context of the shadow of a large PhD program a masters student can get lost.

I have a terminal masters, and I think it was quite valuable, but I got it from a program that does not grant PhDs. IMHO, you are thinking in a good way with this history/literature masters because a masters should do something a PhD program either can't or doesn't do. So a masters in public history before a phd in a more traditional program is a solid credential.

My masters is in a field that my PhD granting institution doesn't do. I have used it to grain a specialist credential.

[oseirus]

It might be very difficult to gauge the success rate of the Dual Degree. I think that most of the students in the dual degree do not apply for PhD's and most of those that do apply take a gap year or two in between the Dual Degree and a PhD.

It's that gap year thing that concerns me the most ... out of sight, out of mind

[TMP]

It's that gap year thing that concerns me the most ... out of sight, out of mind

If you want that PhD bad enough, it won't be out of your mind. I can promise you that. I have gone quite a few months forgetting about the PhD and doing totally different things in the last 2 years (and during a year abroad as an undergrad). But that "fire' always came back.

[jogatoronto]

Ok, here's the inside scoop on this program (just in case anyone is going to apply during this cycle).

1. I do not know of any students with full funding. 25% to 33.3% is the best I've heard of.

2. You take 2 required core courses and 3 elective courses at Reid Hall (Columbia's campus in Paris) BUT there are literally only 3 elective courses offered at Reid Hall. Simply put, at Reid Hall 'elective' means 'no choice.'

3. There are two levels of 'optional' French language courses offered at Reid Hall that you are implicitly expected to take. The French course is Pass/Fail for MA in History and Literature students and is graded for students in the MA in French Cultural Studies.

• Both Levels are generally 2 hours a week (Level 1 is 9 hours a week for the first month). Level 2 students do a lot more work throughout the year than Level 1 students. Oh btw, your level is determined by a surprise french placement test during the second day orientation. You can opt out of taking the placement test by placing yourself in Level 1.
  

4. Courses at ENS and EHESS start in November. You must take 3 elective courses at these schools but you can audit as many as you like. (This is easily the best part of the entire program). In the French universities 'Elective' actually implies having options to choose from!

5. The Associate Director of Studies for MA programs at Reid Hall will be your main point of contact. She's amazingly helpful, patient, and seems to know everyone in French academia.

6. The student's that applied to PhD's in the first cohort were accepted at every school they applied to, both in France and in the United States.

Good Luck!