Could a MSc turn into a bad idea?

[magusvulgaris]

Hello all. I live in Israel and study toward a BA in Psychology. I would like to get into a PhD in Quantitative Psychology or I-O Psychology in USA or Canada. My GPA is assumed to be 3.7-3.9. Is there is a way to know the correlation between GPA and the chances of admission? Anyway, in case of rejection, there is a possibility to study toward a MSc in Israel, and then to try again afterwards. But I've heard that there is a preference for BA/BSc students over MA/MSc students (is related to the fact that most of the programs are direct-PhD programs?). Another thing that I heard, is that MA/MSc students who get admitted can't make there PhD track significantly shorter by transferring all or most of their credit from the masters program. Are those rumors have a valid base?

Thank you in advance.

[Usmivka]

Totally different field for me, but there may be similarlities:

1. GPA is more of a threshold--you need a minimum value to be considered, but beyond that it won't make a difference unless it is very high or just borderline. Many programs actually post this information on their websites. The admissions site will often have a link to a spreadsheet with the GPA, GRE, TOEFL and other scores of applicants and those actually accepted. If not online, you can likely request this info.

2. There can be a preference for BS students, yes. This varies PI to PI though. Mostly it has to do with an advisor who takes you on will prefer someone who they can train and will work for them for more years as opposed to fewer. Remember it costs them money to host you, even when you are paying some tuition. Students who already have an MS might be expected to be in a hurry to leave.

3. True. Many programs do not allow credit transfers. This is both for the reason above, and because they teach with certain expectations and goals in mind, and want every graduate to reflect them to a certain standard.

Hopefully someone with more insight in your specific field can provide more info. Good luck.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Usmivka

[carlyhylton]

When applying to Canadian programs, having a Master's will not hold you back when applying to PhD programs.

Canadian school's generally follow a bachelors-masters-doctorate system, or the Bologna Process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_process)- although not officially. Israel follows the Bologna Process unofficially as well (again see wikipedia article, it explains the politics behind this).

If any other Canadians could corroborate the info above that would be great. I'd like this forum to know how Canadian schools work!!!

[MaxiJaz]

Eh! I'm a Canadian. carlyhylton is right, most PhD programs require a previous masters in a relevant field, with courses in a relevant area. Some schools/programs have direct-PhD programs, and it is these programs that put a bigger emphasis on you having a very impressive GPA in order to be considered.

As for the shortened Masters to PhD...in my program, and in a lot of programs in the sciences over here, you have the possibility of being accepted and moved on to a PhD stream after the first year of a masters. That isn't a given though, apart from the usual high grades, you need to get a few faculty members to sign off on it, including your supervisor and come up with a valid and accepted thesis proposal along with any other requirements from the program. Though daunting, a lot of people I know have done this and gone into a PhD program this way.

You should look into how funding works for your prospective schools in North America. I can't speak for the States, but in Canada, there aren't many external funding agencies or grants catered towards international students, so unless your program can pay you a stipend, that should factor into your decision.

[Zencarrot]

Eh! I'm a Canadian. carlyhylton is right, most PhD programs require a previous masters in a relevant field, with courses in a relevant area. Some schools/programs have direct-PhD programs, and it is these programs that put a bigger emphasis on you having a very impressive GPA in order to be considered.

As for the shortened Masters to PhD...in my program, and in a lot of programs in the sciences over here, you have the possibility of being accepted and moved on to a PhD stream after the first year of a masters. That isn't a given though, apart from the usual high grades, you need to get a few faculty members to sign off on it, including your supervisor and come up with a valid and accepted thesis proposal along with any other requirements from the program. Though daunting, a lot of people I know have done this and gone into a PhD program this way.

You should look into how funding works for your prospective schools in North America. I can't speak for the States, but in Canada, there aren't many external funding agencies or grants catered towards international students, so unless your program can pay you a stipend, that should factor into your decision.

Just to add a caveat to what MaxiJaz has mentioned regarding the accelerated Masters-PhD stream: If you are planning on going into academia after you graduate, this can actually be very disadvantageous to you when you are looking for a job later on. The second year that you "skip" in your Master's prevents you from getting as many conference presentations and, more importantly, publications as your competition will have. As the job market is tightening and will continue to tighten (thankfully I/O psychology has not experienced this quite as much because we have more choice about where to go after graduation), it is essential to ensure that you come out of a graduate program as the most competitive candidate you can possibly be; this means maximizing publications, and in some cases, teaching experience (I know that some business schools here in Canada place a high premium on candidates who have teaching experience).

[lewin]

...most PhD programs require a previous masters in a relevant field...

I want to caution against generalizations that can be extremely field-specific. When I applied to social psychology programs half of the Canadian ones were combined PhD programs.

But of the psych subdisciplines, I/O is probably the most likely to split their MA/PhD components because many people get a master's then head for industry jobs. Would you agree, Zencarrot?

[Zencarrot]

I want to caution against generalizations that can be extremely field-specific. When I applied to social psychology programs half of the Canadian ones were combined PhD programs.

But of the psych subdisciplines, I/O is probably the most likely to split their MA/PhD components because many people get a master's then head for industry jobs. Would you agree, Zencarrot?

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. I've found that it is mostly business schools that require a master's degree in order to be admitted to their PhD programs. They often only admit MBA and M.Sc. graduates with backgrounds in business or economics. This requirement is in place likely because business schools only offer terminal masters programs which are largely separated from the PhD side of things.

Most I/O programs actually have more in common with other disciplines of psychology: they are typically offered as joint MA/MSc.-PhD programs. However, it is definitely not uncommon for students to stop their studies after completing their master's and leave to get a job in industry somewhere. Faculty in I/O programs know this and they are (typically) more tolerant of accepting students who do not wish to stay for the long haul.

[Zencarrot]

After looking over the thread I realized I haven't even attempted to offer a response to OP:

No a master's program is not a bad idea. Given the rate of educational inflation present in our society (particularly in North America, but I know it is happening in other parts of the world as well), having a specialized degree in a field that you are interested in will either a) give you a better chance of landing a job after you graduate, or help you in your studies once you decide to pursue a PhD - and it is not uncommon for schools to acknowledge full credit for your master's degree. Much of the salary census data (at least in North America) supports the former statement - your return on investment starts to decrease after you have a PhD (PhD salaries are not much higher than master's salaries given the time it takes to acquire one).

That being said, if you plan on applying to PhD programs in North America afterwards (I don't want to make this assumption, but I want to mention this just in case), be certain to check the transferability of your degree to other countries if you plan on getting it outside of North America - this applies to both working and studying.

[tocs1]

So it's a choice between either doing a master's in Israel, or not doing anything at all. This is assuming you're waiting for the next admission round because you haven't been admitted in the first one. Doing a master's may make you a stronger applicant, not doing anything (barring improving GREs, which are not that important beyond a certain threshhold) will not. The potential benefits of that other degree outweigh the chance that it might make you less competetive in the eyes of some potential advisors.

Any other existential issues I may help you solve today? ברצינות.

Edited May 30, 2012 by tocs1

[Michaliskh]

Hey guys. I have a question about the gre's. If I do a masters in general psychology in the UK where they are for only one year, will it be a good idea in order to apply for a ph.d in clinical later on?

I am planning to go to the states for a ph.d but if things dont go well i am planning to do a masters for a year in the UK and then reapply again. therefore i will have more chances to get accepted if my GRE scores are not high. But there is a downfall in this idea. Because I would like to go for a fullbright, if I do a masters abroad i wont be eligible for a fulbright scholarship. I hope the assistantships will be somehow enough to cover the tuition.

Is it a good idea to do a masters and then reapply for a ph.d in clinical?