BA or BSc. in psychology?

[xoblackout]

Hi,

I'm a high school student and I'm stuck between getting a BA and a BSc. in psychology.

University #1)

Psychology and business with COOP (Get an arts degree)

[i'd have to move 1 and a half hours away for this university, but they're giving me a big scholarship]

or

University #2)

Psychology (Bachelor of science).

My plan is to get into grad school for clinical psychology, but if that doesn't work out (because of how competitive it is!) then my "backup plan" is going straight into human resources (working in the business field). Either is an option and I'd be happy with both.

This is why Im confused - should I go into psychology and business with coop, so that i can get coop placements for both business (HR) and psychology? But then I'd be left with an arts degree and everyone tells me how "bad" that is.

Or should I go straight into psychology and get a science degree? I don't know exactly how well i'd do.

I just don't wanna regret any of these decisions. I don't want to miss the coop option, but that university is 2 hours from where I'd live so I'd have to move...and I don't want to waste money or make a mistake.

What do you think I should do?

[bdexicon]

I'm not in your field, but my general understanding is that a BSc. is usually a stronger degree than a BA. Take my words with some caution though, and maybe look into the curriculums and see which has a stronger clinical psychology program? You could even email a graduate school you're interested in and ask, I'm sure they wouldn't mind and would love to give advice.

[TakeruK]

Your profile says you live in Toronto and I think in Canada, there is definitely a two-tiered system in reputation of schools (I think there is basically UBC, U of Toronto, and McGill, then there is everyone else). Reputation is not everything, but it will be important for getting co-op placements -- many schools have co-op programs and employers will be looking at the school name. For grad schools, if you are looking at going to the US, it might help to have a more well-known school. But I think the school name will be important in getting co-op placements. In addition, the location of the school will matter as well -- it's MUCH easier to get a co-op placement in a big city since you can actually go to the in-person interviews and so on. So if University #1 is in a smaller town, it might not be as good!

I think co-op is one of the best things you can do during undergrad -- I did it with a BSc from UBC and the research experience I got out of my placements were super helpful in applying for fellowships and grad school. Are you sure there isn't a co-op program for the BSc in psychology program too? At UBC, getting into the science co-op program was a LOT easier than the arts co-op program because the arts program was a lot more competitive. The science co-op program basically took everything who met the requirements that applied but my friends in the arts had to go through rounds of interviews before getting accepted into the program (about half of them got in).

There is nothing "bad" about a BA. In Canada, I think it's about as useful as a BSc -- basically a bachelor's degree in anything is not going to let you do specialized work in your major. BA's and BSc's are hired for the skills they learned along the way -- critical thinking, analysis, writing, quantitative skills etc. and I think it's rare that someone with a bachelor's degree (except in fields such as engineering, computing or business) will be working in the same field as their major.

But in general, arts programs have more students and aren't as well funded as the sciences -- you just have to look at grad school funding packages to see that! Maybe science programs are sometimes seen as stronger because it's harder to get into a BSc program than a BA program at some places (and fewer high school course requirements for BAs too) but if you are a good student, you will end up with a strong skill set with either degree.

Then again, I think a BA in Psych is a very common degree while BSc in Psych is more rare (my wife was a psych major and she saw the difference in class sizes of the BA and BSc streams!). So maybe in your case, a BSc can help you stand out better.

Finally, another thing to consider is the opportunities you will have at either school (I don't know exactly what A and B are). If you know that you are for sure interested in research and grad school, I would strongly recommend choosing the school with the better research track record. I've heard some arguments against going to a big research institution because of large classes, profs that don't care about teaching because they rather do research, higher competition for grades etc. but if you are a good student and will work hard in classes, then you will benefit a LOT more from the exposure to research opportunities than well-taught classes. But this is only applicable if you know for sure you want to do research and grad school, and that's hard to know right now!

[lewin]

To clarify something: Psychology is a science that for quirky historical reasons is often situated in the faculty of arts. Some universities practice better labelling and put it in the faculty of science. So think of the two programs as the same degree with an abitrary distinction where one calls it a BA and the other calls it a BSc. The co-op aspect is a significant difference though, so I would decide which to attend based on whether you want to do co-op (and the extra year that it entails).

I know exactly which two programs you're referring to because I'm currently in grad school with two people who have the two degrees you listed (but not the co-op stream). They both got into the same graduate program just fine and the content of their undergrad degrees was basically the same.

[xoblackout]

To clarify something: Psychology is a science that for quirky historical reasons is often situated in the faculty of arts. Some universities practice better labelling and put it in the faculty of science. So think of the two programs as the same degree with an abitrary distinction where one calls it a BA and the other calls it a BSc. The co-op aspect is a significant difference though, so I would decide which to attend based on whether you want to do co-op (and the extra year that it entails).

I know exactly which two programs you're referring to because I'm currently in grad school with two people who have the two degrees you listed (but not the co-op stream). They both got into the same graduate program just fine and the content of their undergrad degrees was basically the same.

Coop is a great experience and it will help me decide if I want to go to grad school, or if I should go straight into human resources, because honestly, I'm not even sure right now. I'm just scared of making the wrong mistake of getting a BA (but then again it's a BA with business, and coop)

[xoblackout]

Your profile says you live in Toronto and I think in Canada, there is definitely a two-tiered system in reputation of schools (I think there is basically UBC, U of Toronto, and McGill, then there is everyone else). Reputation is not everything, but it will be important for getting co-op placements -- many schools have co-op programs and employers will be looking at the school name. For grad schools, if you are looking at going to the US, it might help to have a more well-known school. But I think the school name will be important in getting co-op placements. In addition, the location of the school will matter as well -- it's MUCH easier to get a co-op placement in a big city since you can actually go to the in-person interviews and so on. So if University #1 is in a smaller town, it might not be as good!

I think co-op is one of the best things you can do during undergrad -- I did it with a BSc from UBC and the research experience I got out of my placements were super helpful in applying for fellowships and grad school. Are you sure there isn't a co-op program for the BSc in psychology program too? At UBC, getting into the science co-op program was a LOT easier than the arts co-op program because the arts program was a lot more competitive. The science co-op program basically took everything who met the requirements that applied but my friends in the arts had to go through rounds of interviews before getting accepted into the program (about half of them got in).

There is nothing "bad" about a BA. In Canada, I think it's about as useful as a BSc -- basically a bachelor's degree in anything is not going to let you do specialized work in your major. BA's and BSc's are hired for the skills they learned along the way -- critical thinking, analysis, writing, quantitative skills etc. and I think it's rare that someone with a bachelor's degree (except in fields such as engineering, computing or business) will be working in the same field as their major.

But in general, arts programs have more students and aren't as well funded as the sciences -- you just have to look at grad school funding packages to see that! Maybe science programs are sometimes seen as stronger because it's harder to get into a BSc program than a BA program at some places (and fewer high school course requirements for BAs too) but if you are a good student, you will end up with a strong skill set with either degree.

Then again, I think a BA in Psych is a very common degree while BSc in Psych is more rare (my wife was a psych major and she saw the difference in class sizes of the BA and BSc streams!). So maybe in your case, a BSc can help you stand out better.

Finally, another thing to consider is the opportunities you will have at either school (I don't know exactly what A and B are). If you know that you are for sure interested in research and grad school, I would strongly recommend choosing the school with the better research track record. I've heard some arguments against going to a big research institution because of large classes, profs that don't care about teaching because they rather do research, higher competition for grades etc. but if you are a good student and will work hard in classes, then you will benefit a LOT more from the exposure to research opportunities than well-taught classes. But this is only applicable if you know for sure you want to do research and grad school, and that's hard to know right now!

The second university (with Bsc in psychology) is indeed University of Toronto. The thing is, I'm not very 'strong' in the sciences ... I was thinking if i go to university, I would try a lot harder to do well, but I'm not sure if that will play out well.

The first university with coop is Waterloo, which is a good university too, and their coop program is really good. I know UofT would be better for me if I'm going to grad school, but I'm not sure about that at all yet, which is why I'm so confused. which one of these programs do you think will get me a job straight out of university? Not a low-paying job.. but a good one.

[Green bean]

I think it ultimately boils down to the courses you actually take and not so much the designation of your degree.

I shall be graduating soon with a B.Sc in Psychology from the University of Toronto. A possible benefit for choosing a B.Sc over a B.A is that it may gave you easier access to other science and statistics courses - which may be of importance for a future in clinical research. I took neuroscience, genetics, and physiology courses that all aided my understanding and appreciation for the concepts I learned.

None of my colleagues have had any co-op experience. However, it wasn't too difficult for us to get internship positions and research experience.

[Green bean]

My apologies! I did not see your most current post. Waterloo would definitely be the wiser choice if you're interested in a good job immediately after your bachelors. Waterloo has a fantastic reputation with it comes to helping their students develop professionalism and garner real life experience.

Unfortunately, U of T is notorious for pumping out undergrads with little to no work experience. It's very difficult start a career with merely a B.Sc from U of T. The majority of our student body focuses on keeping good grades and aims for a future in either graduate studies or medical school.

[TakeruK]

Unfortunately, U of T is notorious for pumping out undergrads with little to no work experience. It's very difficult start a career with merely a B.Sc from U of T. The majority of our student body focuses on keeping good grades and aims for a future in either graduate studies or medical school.

I would agree with this statement too -- but mostly because I see U Waterloo as a very strong engineering school, and BASc are very useful in the workforce. U of T is good for doing BA and BSc, which are not very useful in the workforce, at least not in their major fields. But that's not to say that every student/program from Waterloo or Toronto will fall into these bins, just the general feeling that other Canadian academics may share too.

The original poster said that they wanted to get a good paying job right out of undergrad -- I'm sure it's possible but I don't think that is something you can guarantee at either school. Usually academia/research isn't going to pay well -- in the end, a starting prof can make as much as 80,000/year and eventually make a bit over 100,000 when they are fully tenured. But this is at age 40 or so -- there are much better ways to make money if that is your goal (you might start at lower than 80,000 but you will be working instead of spending 5 years in grad school, 4-6 years as a postdoc and then 5 years trying to get tenure, and that's not even considering the fact that jobs are hard to come by!)

Then again, I'm not sure what a BA or BSc in psychology can really get you, job-wise, after graduation (maybe someone in the field can comment?). My wife was originally considering a BA in psychology -- her original plan was to either go to grad school or go get a BEd afterwards and teach elementary or high school. Actually, out of all the people I kept in contact with from high school that went to University, the vast majority of them who got real jobs right after undergrad were in a business program. Everyone else is either in grad school or professional programs like teacher's college, law school, med school, etc.

[lewin]

Want a good paying job right after undergrad? Take a bachelor of nursing... RN's make $65k straight out. But seriously, if you're interested in HR then Waterloo also has a human resources management program. I don't know much about it, but it may be worth checking out. I don't recall what area of psych you mentioned, but at Waterloo social and clinical are particularly strong.

I also want to add that I have a BA but still took lots of physiological and neuroscience courses.

[xoblackout]

Thanks for the response, everyone! Grad school is definitely an option but it's just that the statistics courses really scare me..I'm not strong in maths. I'm hoping that'll change once I go to uni and put an effort in each and every one of my courses, moreso than I'm doing now in high school.

And it is hard to get a job with a BA in psyc, but the Waterloo program is Arts and Business with co-op, so it wont only be psychology, it'll be psychology and business. I was thinking of doing my coop placements in a company where I can see if I like working in human resources.

I'm just really confused as to which program and which university to go to. YORK university is also an option, but I just really dislike their reputation!

[xoblackout]

Want a good paying job right after undergrad? Take a bachelor of nursing... RN's make $65k straight out. But seriously, if you're interested in HR then Waterloo also has a human resources management program. I don't know much about it, but it may be worth checking out. I don't recall what area of psych you mentioned, but at Waterloo social and clinical are particularly strong.

I also want to add that I have a BA but still took lots of physiological and neuroscience courses.

Where did you get your BA? A university in Toronto?

[carlyhylton]

I think the deciding factor here is what you want to do after your undergrad.

What really EXCITES you? Clinical psych? or HR?

You may not have a good idea as you haven't taken undergraduate courses in psych yet, believe me, you'll have quite a different perspective when you do!

If you do the Psych/Business Co-op program at Waterloo and you want to do Clinical psych, I'd think that the program at Waterloo would hinder you to gain vital experiences required for applying to clinical psych programs.

However, if you want to go into HR, you can certainly find opportunities to gain experience in either HR/Industrial-Organizational Psych/Business/Social Psych OR clinically oriented research while in a BA/BSc program. Moreover, I think the typical route to an HR career is to do postgrad studies or a masters in HR, so you would do that anyways (at least thats what the people who I know in HR are doing/did).

Also, if you're not into York, check out Glendon : )

I go there because of the trilingual iBA/Cognitive Neuropsych specialization, which is allowing me to do a lot of clinical/neuropsych coursework, as well as a clinical practicuum (either research or practice/psychometrics etc).

However, if you're not into the trilingual/bilingual/iBA option, I'd go to U of T!

That's my two cents.