Fulbright (for Canadians!) 2013-2014

[1Q84]

Subtopic! Hurrah!

Is anyone from Canada applying for a Fulbright Traditional Award here? Just a couple things I was wondering about it... maybe we can all pool our knowledge:

- I saw the requirement of returning to Canada for 2 full years after the study period. What if I'm hoping to get the award for my MA and then want to go on and do my PhD right after? Would I still have to return to Canada?

- You have to submit letters of acceptance for the Fulbright application? How is this possible? If I'm applying for Fall 2013, how could I have acceptance letters for the Nov 15 deadline for next year's Fulbright?

- Is the GRE necessary? I saw that they take them "as necessary". Not sure what that means.

So many confusing bits...

[woodendress]

_{I'm not Canadian or applying for this award, but I looked at the website and saw that you come in on a J-1 visa. I know someone who came from Russia on a J-1 visa and the US government is very, very strict about J-1 visa holders going back to their countries. This woman I knew did not want to go back to Russia, and she was able to stay here for quite a long time. I'm not sure of all the details or how she managed to stay here for so long, but she eventually was forced to leave. Luckily, she married a Belgian, and she will become a Belgian citizen, but according to her, she can never become a US citizen/legal resident until she fulfills the 2 years in Russia, even if she gets Belgian citizenship. I think she can visit the US, however.}

Edited August 3, 2012 by woodendress

[1Q84]

Holy moly. That's intense. Thanks for the heads up!

If only it were as simple as marrying for me.... they unfortunately don't recognise same-sex marriages in California (much less for immigration purposes). Sigh.

[woodendress]

Holy moly. That's intense. Thanks for the heads up!

If only it were as simple as marrying for me.... they unfortunately don't recognise same-sex marriages in California (much less for immigration purposes). Sigh.

Marrying isn't that simple, either! I have also known people that came to the US after marrying a US citizen and the stories I've heard are intense!

I don't know how my friend was able to stay here so long on her visa, but she was also unable to leave the country, because she would be barred from returning. That is something else to think about. If you are able to stay and continue your studies, you won't be able to enter Canada and then come back to the US, from what I understand. This is only a problem if you want to visit family, for example, and then come back to continue your studies. I know my friend is really happy she was able to move to Belgium, because now she can visit her family in Russia.

Edited August 3, 2012 by woodendress

[1Q84]

This is giving me second thoughts about applying to this. Seems kind of like contractual prostitution to some degree! Not to totally dump on the organisation and the system, but being forced to go back to my home country for 2 years seems... wrong.

[woodendress]

There is a whole website about the J-1 Visa. I only know about my friend's experiences with it, so it may vary depending on where you are from. It does mention extensions on the website: http://j1visa.state.gov/

ETA: Just looked at the website and if you are on a program funded by your country or the US government, you have to go back for 2 years. I don't know how extensions figure into that. The J-1 Visa is supposed to be about cultural exchange, so I understand why the government has the 2 year requirement, but I know it was really frustrating for my friend who didn't want to go back to Russia.

Edited August 3, 2012 by woodendress

[1Q84]

Yeah I guess it makes sense as a cultural exchange. Buh.

It's unfortunate because the Fulbright is pretty much the only fellowship/scholarship large enough to cover nonresident tuition in the US. The other Canadian awards (the OAS) has the same stipulation about returning to Canada for 2 years.

[TakeruK]

Hi!

I applied for the same award last year (2012-2013 funding year), so good luck to you I didn't get an award though, but I at least made the first cut and got my application forwarded to the US! I just want to say that the 2-year home residency requirement is a J-1 visa thing, NOT a Fulbright thing!!

I will be attending a US school this year with a J-1 visa and be subject to the same 2-year home residency thing. Did you know that you can get your J-1 extended for your first post-doc? If you get a post-doc position in the US before your original J-1 expires (within 30 days of graduation, but you usually get these things before you graduate), then you can extend your J-1 for an additional 3 years for post-doc.

In addition, you only have to go back to Canada for 2 years before applying for a IMMIGRANT class visa (i.e. H1- . So this does NOT preclude you from applying for additional J-1 visas in the future. So this means you can do 2nd and 3rd post-docs in the US as well if you are on J class visas instead of H1-B class visas for these post-docs. You can also go anywhere else in the world -- you just can't go back to the US on an immigrant class visa until the 2 year home residency requirement is met (or you apply for a waiver). So, if you land a job in, e.g. France, after your PhD, you can move there forever -- no need to return to Canada!

The home residency requirement will be a big issue if you want to eventually immigrate permanently to the US. But maybe it wouldn't be so bad to do a 2 year post-doc in Canada

So, to answer your questions:

1. If you get the Fulbright for your MA, then you will attend the MA program as a J-1 status student. After your MA, you are free to apply for and attend PhD program as either a F-1 or J-1 status because both of these are non-immigrant class visas. To summarize the above, the only requirement is that you must be in Canada for 2 years before applying for an immigrant-class visa to the US, but you can visit and live in the US on any other non-immigrant class visa without returning to Canada!!

2. You only submit letters of acceptance once you get them. I just submitted my application by the November due date without any letters of acceptance. In late January, the first cut (by the Fulbright Canada office) is done and people who made it are notified and asked to submit an additional form where you rank your top 5 schools (and note if any have accepted you yet). You are then asked to continually update Fulbright Canada if any of this changes (i.e. as results roll in and your rankings change). Meanwhile, all of the short-listed candidates are evaluated by the Fulbright people in the US and final decisions announced in April!

3. GRE scores: they are not required for this award. I had the same questions because some documents do mention these scores (as well as a writing sample). Apparently some of these things were prepared for all Fulbright awards in general. A representative from Fulbright Canada told me that GRE scores and writing samples are not required for the FTA application. But it wouldn't hurt for you to check again in case things change -- they are very friendly and helpful with email replies

I'll be apply to answer any other questions about F-1/J-1 visas and the Fulbright FTA application process (remember that I failed to get one though!)

Edited August 5, 2012 by TakeruK

[1Q84]

Hi!

I applied for the same award last year (2012-2013 funding year), so good luck to you I didn't get an award though, but I at least made the first cut and got my application forwarded to the US! I just want to say that the 2-year home residency requirement is a J-1 visa thing, NOT a Fulbright thing!!

I will be attending a US school this year with a J-1 visa and be subject to the same 2-year home residency thing. Did you know that you can get your J-1 extended for your first post-doc? If you get a post-doc position in the US before your original J-1 expires (within 30 days of graduation, but you usually get these things before you graduate), then you can extend your J-1 for an additional 3 years for post-doc.

In addition, you only have to go back to Canada for 2 years before applying for a IMMIGRANT class visa (i.e. H1- . So this does NOT preclude you from applying for additional J-1 visas in the future. So this means you can do 2nd and 3rd post-docs in the US as well if you are on J class visas instead of H1-B class visas for these post-docs. You can also go anywhere else in the world -- you just can't go back to the US on an immigrant class visa until the 2 year home residency requirement is met (or you apply for a waiver). So, if you land a job in, e.g. France, after your PhD, you can move there forever -- no need to return to Canada!

The home residency requirement will be a big issue if you want to eventually immigrate permanently to the US. But maybe it wouldn't be so bad to do a 2 year post-doc in Canada

So, to answer your questions:

1. If you get the Fulbright for your MA, then you will attend the MA program as a J-1 status student. After your MA, you are free to apply for and attend PhD program as either a F-1 or J-1 status because both of these are non-immigrant class visas. To summarize the above, the only requirement is that you must be in Canada for 2 years before applying for an immigrant-class visa to the US, but you can visit and live in the US on any other non-immigrant class visa without returning to Canada!!

2. You only submit letters of acceptance once you get them. I just submitted my application by the November due date without any letters of acceptance. In late January, the first cut (by the Fulbright Canada office) is done and people who made it are notified and asked to submit an additional form where you rank your top 5 schools (and note if any have accepted you yet). You are then asked to continually update Fulbright Canada if any of this changes (i.e. as results roll in and your rankings change). Meanwhile, all of the short-listed candidates are evaluated by the Fulbright people in the US and final decisions announced in April!

3. GRE scores: they are not required for this award. I had the same questions because some documents do mention these scores (as well as a writing sample). Apparently some of these things were prepared for all Fulbright awards in general. A representative from Fulbright Canada told me that GRE scores and writing samples are not required for the FTA application. But it wouldn't hurt for you to check again in case things change -- they are very friendly and helpful with email replies

I'll be apply to answer any other questions about F-1/J-1 visas and the Fulbright FTA application process (remember that I failed to get one though!)

You are AMAZING! So much helpful information Thanks so much.

Very good to know about the J-1 details. I guess I can worry about returning to Canada (or leaving the US) in 8-10 years... hehe.

May I ask what research you were proposing for your Fulbright? And why you think you may not have gotten it? I have this sinking feeling that they don't take kindly to humanities projects (despite what they say on the website). All the past year's Fulbright recipients were science-related research students. Sigh.

[TakeruK]

I actually thought Fulbright was geared more towards the humanities since there is a separate Fulbright specifically for Science and Technology (missed that deadline since it's 16 months before your program even starts!). In addition, they say that public policy/international affairs type students are preferred. But looking at the recent winners, it sounds like you are right!

I was proposing an extension of work I've been involved with in the past. I was interested in building a better/more accurate/precise model of the orbits of Near Earth Asteroids using simulations by including several important factors not used in recent models. Many of these limitations are based on computing power but these simulations were designed almost a decade ago. With such great advances in computing power since then, we should be able to have much more powerful simulations resulting in more accurate and precise models!

I treated this application like a super-hard-to-get NSERC/SSHRC application, so I didn't try to propose a research topic that the Fulbright people would have been specifically interested in. However, I did propose a "real" PhD level project that I could actually work on -- I even contacted potential PhD supervisors and discussed my proposal with them. I really don't think the topic has anything to do with whether or not you get the award -- I would think that, like NSERC/SSHRC applications, they are more interested in your ability to communicate your research as well as how much background you've done. In addition, like NSERC/SSHRC, I wrote it on the assumption that I'm not bound to the research project and probably would do something else for my PhD -- it's just a potential project.

I think I didn't get it because it's a really really competitive program, only a dozen or so students from all fields in Canada get one. It's much much much harder than a NSERC/SSHRC, where hundreds of students are awarded one (and the latter awards pay more too!). If you want the rest of my stats, I have a ~88% average in undergrad, a 93% average in my masters, 5 publications (1 pending) at time of application, although none of them were first-author, and fairly strong letters of recommendation. I don't usually mention specific stats (and I'm not doing it to show off or anything) but I think it's necessary here to make my point. I sent basically the same application to NSERC and ended up with a CGS (which I turned down for a PGS so I can take it to the US), though, so I think that attests to how competitive the Fulbright is!

I would really recommend you apply to SSHRC as well! I was just going to say that you can take the "Tier 2" (i.e. PGS) awards abroad but decided to check this on the SSHRC website instead of assuming that NSERC and SSHRC works the same way! It turns out that there isn't a PGS level award for Masters with SSHRC, as far as I can tell. There is one for the Doctoral level though (called the SSHRC Doctoral Fellowship). So I guess that's out The award levels are basically the same with NSERC and SSHRC but just no second tier masters award, weird! The SSHRC Doctoral fellowship is allowed to be held aborad: http://www.sshrc-crsh.gc.ca/funding-financement/programs-programmes/fellowships/doctoral-doctorat-eng.aspx#a4 (scroll down to "Eligibility to Hold an Award") and you'll see the same paragraph that appears for NSERC holders

I'm just going to say this, but you might have already considered it / know about it -- in Canada, we all do our masters first, then our PhD. In the US, one generally applies to a PhD program directly and get the masters along the way (usually the requirement is completing courses and the comps/oral exams). People do MA programs mostly only if they are sure they want to end at the Masters level, or feel that they cannot get into a PhD program right away. But even if you're in the latter case, it would still be good to apply for PhD programs too. Anyways, just want to say that the norm, as far as I know, is to apply for PhD programs directly from undergrad. PhD programs are usually fully funded and you don't have to worry about paying nonresident tuition. Sorry if you already know this and I'm just repeating obvious things.

Of course, some things are different because I'm in the sciences, but most of this appears to be true from reading posts from humanities/social sciences students here. But if you are able to get a Fulbright award, you will be more than qualified to enter a fully funded PhD program in the US! By this, I mean the Fulbright is not a realistic way to earn money for US programs -- if you are able to get the FTA, you will be able to get a ton of other awards too. For example the NSERC and SSHRC Doctoral CGS are both valued at 35,000 CAD/year in Canada and the second tier awards (which you can take to the US and are payable in USD) are 21,000 CAD/year and 20,000 CAD/year, respectively. All of these awards are for 2-3 years -- much much more than the 15,000 USD for 9 months awarded by the FTA. The FTA is more like a bonus/top-up since anyone with a FTA surely has some other major fellowship as well.

Edited August 5, 2012 by TakeruK

[1Q84]

Oh wow what a bummer

Good to know all these things. I would totally apply straight for a Ph.D but I don't quite have the grades for it. I think the lowest tier direct PhD school in California is UC: Santa Cruz and I don't have the grades for it

And no worries, I didn't take you listing your stats as bragging. It's good to know what level I'm at in comparison with others.

It doesn't sound very likely that I'll get a Fulbright then. I only have a 3.3 GPA and such.

Thank you though!

ETA: Since I kinda messed stuff up in my 3rd and 4th years of undergrad, I was hoping to really boost my status in my MA, get an amazing GPA, make some good connections and relationships with profs and then get into the school of my dreams for a PhD. It seemed like a good plan at the time...

Edited August 5, 2012 by ponponpon

[TakeruK]

No problem! I'm not sure about your field, but a 3.3 GPA isn't too low for some PhD programs in my field. You could also consider a MA at a Canadian school maybe? Those are usually fully funded. I ended up doing a Masters in Canada before transferring to a PhD in the US and for my programs, it made no difference that I did my masters in Canada instead of the US. That is, none of my PhD programs will grant any substantial credit for having a Masters (Canada or US). The most credit I could have got was 3 courses waived (out of a school that required like 16 courses though).

Of course, things could be very different in English Lit, but just saying that if it doesn't make a difference where you do a masters, you might as well do it in Canada and get funding as well as not have to worry about visa/immigration for another 2 years.

[1Q84]

But I mean if you had an 88% average and didn't get one, then I don't know what chance I stand with a 75% or whatever 3.3 happens to be!

I applied twice to grad school in Canada and was rejected both times. I totally gave up after that... I feel like Canadian schools are much more stringent with the GPA requirements, especially since there's no GRE. Most schools I've seen have had 3.7 minimum requirements... even schools that aren't known for English like Guelph and Brock, which I thought was silly.

Also, might get laughed out of the room for this one, but I'm partially applying to grad schools in California to be with my partner. Another 2 years spent apart if I were to do an MA in Canada just wouldn't work (already been apart for 3 years!)

PS. I didn't say it in the post before but your research sounds amazingly interesting! I love science stuff even though I'm totally inept when it comes to studying it.

[TakeruK]

Sorry, I meant to say that it's not unheard of for students with a 3.3 GPA to get into PhD programs, but unfortunately, that GPA does seem low for the Fulbright awards I'd normally have the attitude of "let's try the application anyways!" but maybe that's not the best use of time and energy!

I also agree that Canada does seem to have stricter GPA requirements -- many Physics departments here will outright say "if you don't have a 80% average, don't bother applying", and many schools will also require an honours bachelors degree (with majors admitted under some conditions). However, in the sciences at least (but I heard not in humanities and social sciences), PhD students are generally "hired" by their advisor directly -- i.e. our admissions letter usually say that Profs X, Y, and Z are willing to fund you (and thus we have to pick which supervisor when we accept the offer). This means that you don't have to be as competitive to get in -- as long as you meet the school and department's baseline levels, you just have to convince a prof to "hire" you as a PhD student. So, you just have to beat out other students who are applying for the same supervisor and GPA isn't always the sole determining factor -- a strong research background can more than make up for a weaker GPA. But I guess if you already tried Canada twice, then it's definitely time to "move on", so to speak!

I don't think it's silly at all to apply to California to be with your partner. From the earlier posts here, I had assumed your partner is still in Canada with you. Although my wife isn't a student and decided that she would move wherever the best program was for me, we decided that we both needed to have an equal opinion in my school selection. So I made a list of schools that I thought were good and she got first veto rights to scratch off any places she would absolutely not want to live (while retaining the right to scratch more off the list after school visits). After I/we visited some of the schools, I removed schools that I thought didn't fit me as well and then we both made a decision. It turns out our rankings were exactly the same, so that was awesome.

When I made my ranking, I weighed the academic program and the quality of life we would have in that city/location (based on weather, culture, stipend, etc.) equally. We applied to a lot of California schools as well because we grew up on the west coast of Canada and we wanted to return to the west coast weather, culture, lifestyle etc. We're living in a small town in Ontario right now and we learned that we really don't like it at all, especially not the real Canadian winters! And living far away from a hub city airport (i.e. Toronto) has been very inconvenient as well, so that was also a factor in deciding on a school!

When I was visiting schools, I met many other prospective students who had to decide between a school they really liked academically vs. a school closer to their partner. Most of these students expressed some kind of shame (if that's the right word), or guilt for choosing schools based on personal reasons rather than professional/academic reasons. I guess everyone has different priorities. While there's no problem if one chooses to prioritize their career over personal desires, it's a bit depressing to think that academia has trained us to feel guilt when prioritizing (or even just factoring in) personal desires for career-related decisions!

PS. I'm glad to hear that my research sounds interesting Do you have a research project in mind? Your signature mentions "magic realism", what is that?

[1Q84]

From the attempts I made at Canadian grad schools, I got the impression that humanities professors don't ever really "adopt" a grad student. Otherwise I would've done a lot more schmoozing!

I think that's why I've significantly shifted my focus now. It wouldn't make sense for me to try and do an unfunded MA and it seems like I wouldn't qualify for private funding plus there are very few funded MAs that are on my lower-tier of applications.

I'm shooting for the stars! (Ph.D programs).

Glad to hear I'm not the only one making life-altering decisions based partially on my partner haha. I like this vetting system you and your wife have set up. I'll definitely have to try that out. I can't imagine living in a small town in Ontario is very fun (I'm almost there, Markham is just as bad). Nice to see you're going to Caltech! Definitely more your kinda place eh?

I'm hoping to bring modern gender studies perspectives into Paradise Lost. It's been done before but I'm sure there's a lot more!

Not sure if you've heard of Gabriel Garcia Marquez (100 Years of Solitude) and Haruki Murakami (Kafka on the Shore). I find they're the two big names everyone knows when it comes to magic realism. It's realist writing but with magical, surreal elements thrown in, almost casually.

Interesting perspective that my friend told me about recently is that in the West it's called magic realism but in many societies abroad, it's simply called realism. There's nothing "magical" about it and it's kind of presumptuous of Westerners to call their reality "magic". Thus, I put magic realism in quotation marks in the sig there. Hmm! Something to think about.

Thanks again for all the kind words

[TakeruK]

Hmm that sounds pretty cool -- but I can't say I've read those two works you mention (I have at least heard of 100 Years of Solitude though). We're in Kingston right now, which is an alright town, but it's just kind of homogeneous!

Pasadena is much more multi-cultural so I'm looking forward to that. Although I'm not sure how well I'll fit in at Caltech itself -- when everyone introduced themselves and their undergrad schools during the prospective student visit, my background was clearly one of the odd ones out (and not in a good way!) And the department head basically welcomed us with a message that we'll have to work all day every day to succeed at Caltech. But I have a good friend in the school already and everyone I've met so far is great. So, I guess I'll just keep a positive attitude and be optimistic that everything will work out

[obrera]

Hey guys, and fellow Kingstonian. Just a quick question: what is the timeline on Fulbright? When should we expect to hear back about cut-offs and the final decision?

[TakeruK]

Last year, my application deadline was Nov 15. I first heard back (email) on Dec 14 from Fulbright Canada stating that they had received my application and checked it for completeness. They also said that it was eligible for consideration by the Canadian Adjudication Committee and that I should hear back by mid-February.

Next, I got an email on Jan 26 stating that the Fulbright Canada Adjudication Committee has reviewed the applications and has recommended my application to the US. They then requested further information before forwarding my application to the US. They also asked that we update them as we hear results from the schools we've applied to. They said that this step is not a guarantee of funding because they recommend more people than awards available. Finally, the email said that final results will be sent out on or about April 15.

Finally, sometime in early April, I got a letter from Fulbright Canada in the mail. It said that in the end, I was not selected for an award. From the other Fulbright threads around here, Fulbright seems to send rejection letters in small white envelopes (since it's just a letter) while acceptances come in bigger envelopes with more detailed instructions (can't confirm this though). I noticed this with grad school applications too actually. However, with those, usually you hear by email way before anything in the postal system arrives.

Basically, the timeline was pretty much the same as the outline in the detailed application instructions -- even a bit ahead of schedule!

Good luck!

[obrera]

Last year, my application deadline was Nov 15. I first heard back (email) on Dec 14 from Fulbright Canada stating that they had received my application and checked it for completeness. They also said that it was eligible for consideration by the Canadian Adjudication Committee and that I should hear back by mid-February.

Next, I got an email on Jan 26 stating that the Fulbright Canada Adjudication Committee has reviewed the applications and has recommended my application to the US. They then requested further information before forwarding my application to the US. They also asked that we update them as we hear results from the schools we've applied to. They said that this step is not a guarantee of funding because they recommend more people than awards available. Finally, the email said that final results will be sent out on or about April 15.

Finally, sometime in early April, I got a letter from Fulbright Canada in the mail. It said that in the end, I was not selected for an award. From the other Fulbright threads around here, Fulbright seems to send rejection letters in small white envelopes (since it's just a letter) while acceptances come in bigger envelopes with more detailed instructions (can't confirm this though). I noticed this with grad school applications too actually. However, with those, usually you hear by email way before anything in the postal system arrives.

Basically, the timeline was pretty much the same as the outline in the detailed application instructions -- even a bit ahead of schedule!

Good luck!

Do you know how many applications are forwarded vs. how many awards are actually given out?

[TakeruK]

Do you know how many applications are forwarded vs. how many awards are actually given out?

From counting the names on this page: http://www.fulbright.ca/programs/canadian-students/2012-2013-canadian-fulbright-students.html, there were 15 awards finally given. The only information I got on number of applications forwarded is "the Committee recommends more candidates in any given competition than we can realistically fund".