Lab Rotations and Funding

[sciencenerd123]

Little bit of background:

I am currently a first-year student in a Ph.D. program for biomedical sciences (on the West Coast). We are all being paid a stipend from the university until we find a permanent lab (no TA-ing necessary). We were told at the beginning of the semester that the university would pay for us in case there were funding issues (funding dropped in middle of degree, etc.), or they would somehow find a way to keep us funded.

Issue:

There are multiple departments in this program. My interests lie specifically in one department that I'm already temporarily under. However, there is a huge issue with funding in the labs of this department, and therefore only 2 or 3 labs can take students at all. There are 10+ students competing for these spots. When a student expressed concerns over the lack of funding, they were told to basically suck it up and find some other interests to do a Ph.D. in. We have offered to help with grants or do whatever else was necessary to get funding, but apparently that can't work in certain situations. Some professors are reluctant to even let students rotate in their labs.

The coursework for this department is rigorous, and only a handful of the 10+ people competing are actually taking the classes needed for this department (yet no preference is given to anyone already under it). Any advice from more experienced grad students? Should we suck it up and find something else to work on for the next 4+ years? Or should we try to fix this situation now so it won't happen to incoming students in the future?

[Eigen]

Just out of curiosity, how would you see yourself trying to fix the situation? I'm not seeing anything you could do that would "fix" things.

That said, I think at a lot of top programs, it's not unusual to have competition for "choice" labs. It's one of the reasons it's important to make contacts early with PIs, and make yourself as attractive as possible when it comes time for them to decide.

I'd also guess that since only a handful of you are actively pursuing the coursework, that might also come up when it's time for PIs to select students.

That brings up another question to me, though- why are only a handful of you doing coursework, if it's required? How are the others dodging out of it? Or are you just taking more than they are- maybe they got advised to pace themselves?

[sciencenerd123]

I'm not exactly sure how I would go about fixing things, I was just wondering if there was anything I could do (apply for some kind of fellowship myself or something). There are only 6 people headed under my specific department, so that's why some are taking the classes my department requires and some aren't. Some of the people competing for spots in my department are in a different department with their own curriculum. I think the main thing is just that we were told there were labs for us and our interests but the majority of us are probably going to get screwed over. If we had known we wouldn't be able to even rotate with people who interest us, I don't think a lot of us would've accepted.

[Eigen]

This is one of those things you *have* to ask when you visit the school.

Did they tell you specifically that you would be able to rotate with these PIs? Or did they just not tell you that you might not be able to?

Almost everyone I know in grad school had some lab that they weren't able to rotate in, due to competition. It's why I so strongly recommend to everyone applying that they have at least 3 labs they want to work in at a prospective institution.

From the size program you're talking about, the situation you're describing doesn't seem that far out of the norm to me. Some programs have been hit harder by funding cuts than others have.

And as for things you could do, I can't really think of any. There's next to nothing a first year grad student can do to help get grants or really anything else to get funding, other than to apply for external fellowships.

As for funding- you could certainly apply for an external fellowship- the NSF-GRFP leaps to mind, but the deadline has (I think) already passed for that this year.

That said, since the department can fund you to some degree, I'm wondering if the reason labs aren't taking students is not being able to afford the stipends, or that they don't have the space/funding for additional projects.

[sciencenerd123]

I don't think they realized the amount of people that would be interested in these labs, especially the amount of interest from people in other departments. We were just told to pick a few people we were interested in to interview with, there was no specific information on funding. From interviews to the beginning of the semester to now, a lot of funding situations have changed (mostly for the worst). A lot of the "available" professors are waiting to hear back from grants so we're all kind of walking on eggshells when it comes to rotations. We knew we could rotate with anyone, but the funding issue wasn't made know at the beginning. Of course, a program doesn't want to make departmental money issues known during interviews, but if there's not going to be room for everyone than something needs to be said. At least that's how I feel. I know what I'm passionate about and I know what I could care less about, I'm trying to be flexible but to them flexibility means leaving the department entirely and finding a new subject (for example, switching from micro to biophysics).

Also, it's not that they're the "top" labs to be in, they're the only labs that may have funding for the department. There are only 5 labs that might potentially even have funding for my department. Best case scenario, there are 3 or 4 spots. Worst case, there are 2.

[sciencenerd123]

Perhaps I should ask a direct question: would any of you be able to "suck it up" and work in a completely different department in which you have no experience in for the next 4+ years? It seems like an awfully long time to be doing something that doesn't make you happy. I know grad school isn't supposed to be the happiest experience of your life, but I would at least like to enjoy it (and not have to take another year full of courses just to catch myself up to speed on a completely new subject). This semester alone I'm taking close to 19 credits (including 4 classes, rotations, and other small courses required by the program); this courseload is specifically for my department. So if I don't get into this department, I've killed myself for these classes for absolutely nothing. I've done one rotation in a different department that I have some experience in (there's only two departments here in which I've had course or research experience), but ultimately I would like to do my Ph.D. in my current department. With the lack of funding for the majority of the labs in my department, it looks like the chances of getting into a lab in my department are slim (especially with additional people competing). I also understand it's supposed to be competitive, but when there's so little room in the department in general and I came in under the assumption that way more professors had funding, it's a little frustrating. Am I in the right for feeling this way, was the program in the wrong at all for accepting so many students for this department and then essentially screwing us over? Or should I just shut up and suck it up and deal with it?

Also, Eigen, you've given great feedback and advice, so thank you!

[Eigen]

I wouldn't say the department is completely blameless.

That said, my (brief) experience with BMS programs is that they don't view their departments as separately as traditional academic units might. So to them, accepting more for a department than they might be able to fund isn't that big of a deal, because there are adjacent departments that have room.

But also, I think this really highlights the importance of asking pointed questions during the visit, and specifically talking to each of the PIs you're interested in about availability of space.

We've had students have to completely switch areas before due to lack of spots, so it's not uncommon.

Personally, I think it would be worth waiting things out and seeing if you get into one of the labs. Talk to the PIs you're doing a rotation with, mention your concerns, see what they say.

If it comes down to it, and you really consider it worth leaving over, you might tactfully mention that you really want to work in X discipline, and that if you can't you'll probably be leaving to apply elsewhere.

It also may be that people from other departments are "competing", but they aren't really as competitive as you guys are for the spots, since you're actually in the department- but no one other than the PIs can answer that one.