Graduate School... What to study?

[mollyac11]

Hello everyone! This is my first time joining a forum community, so please bear with me!

Since the reason I found this site was because I was doing endless (and seemingly hopeless) google searches on tips for deciding what I should pursue in graduate school, I thought I would enter the community by asking some of the things that have been plaguing me. I've looked around the threads, but I don't see any threads about deciding what to study in graduate school.

I know by the time most people are thinking of graduate school they know what they want. I don't. I have ideas, but I'm lost. Very lost. Within the next year I'll be getting a BS in Social Work and a BA in Psychology. I love them both, but over this last year (since I've finished my senior-level 400 hours of field study) I have had more immersion in psychology and have begun to wonder which is the better fit for me in graduate school. I have two years between undergraduate and graduate school to play with and do some soul-searching. However, it doesn't help that I have no idea how to even choose the right school in general - let alone with two fields of study drawing me in. Two fields that don't quite fit together when I think about applicability. If I pursue psychology, I wish to pursue behavioral neuroscience (or, biopsychology, depending on which term a given school uses).

If I were to pursue a MSW, I want something unique. I can't see myself in a community/organizational track. If any track, I like clinical. But there's something holding me back when I consider it. I don't want to just do clinical, I think I need something more specific. For example, I really like the Four Corners Program offered by University of Denver where I would be able to immerse myself in Native People's culture and do my fieldwork with this population. Or, I like the idea of a dual-doctoral - such as the one at University of Michigan. I don't want to walk out of graduate school and be unsure of what I want to do with my MSW though, and I fear that may happen. Without a program that allows me specialization while studying, I fear I'll wander in a zombie-like trance into my first job out of graduate school and I don't want that. I need something unique, something that will help me know I picked the right thing. I don't know that clinical in general will give me that feeling of having chosen the right direction.

If I pursue psychology, I want something of the neurological track. I am absorbed instantly by anything I read about in psychology, any kind of psychology. What makes me concerned about social work is that this is not the case. I am much more selective about reading interest within the social work literature. I could spend days reading about the biological components that make people tick and drive us forward. What scares me is that I have this voice in my head that I would never be able to do a PhD. If I went the psychology track, that would be necessary, but would not be the case in pursuing social work graduate school. I do want a PhD, as I know the voice in my head is my inner fears. I *like* to think I'm capable, so I don't understand this inner self-esteem issue... or why this negative little voice is so persistent.

So, my question is whether those of you who have done graduate work in social work, psychology, or both think I have a shot (in either, or both)? Here's some of my undergraduate achievements:

GPA (as of today): 3.97 (3.78 in social work; 4.00 in psychology)

1 4-month internship in a behavioral health partial care.

1 10-month internship in a school-based youth service program.

1 independent study - data collection using a computerized experiment (hemispheric differences)

1 research experience - participant recruitment, participant training, administration of pre- and post-test measurement instruments, data coding, went to conference (cognition, brain training)

4 honor societies (Phi Theta Kappa, Phi Alpha, Golden Key, Psi Chi)

Pending volunteer work at a runaway and homeless youth shelter

I've done well in both programs, which hasn't helped me decide which I may be better suited for.

I'm not even sure what to ask, but I would love any feedback! My confusion is so great that I'm not even at the point that I feel like I can formulate relevant questions... so if anyone who reads this has anything, anything at all to say that they think will help me - I would love, love, love to hear it!!

[Sparky]

Well, what do you want to do with your degree? Grad school (any program) is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. Do you want to do lab-based neuroscience research? Teach? Be a social worker? Think about what you want to DO, how you want to spend the days of your life--then worry about how to get there. You "want a PhD". What for? What doors will the degree open for you that you are dying to walk through?

[mollyac11]

Well, what do you want to do with your degree? Grad school (any program) is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. Do you want to do lab-based neuroscience research? Teach? Be a social worker? Think about what you want to DO, how you want to spend the days of your life--then worry about how to get there. You "want a PhD". What for? What doors will the degree open for you that you are dying to walk through?

That's the problem, I can see myself on either path. Both endpoints excite me. However, I'm very particular about the social work. I know that I would burn-out faster if I was under-stimulated intellectually before I would burn-out from low-pay and long-hours. That's why I have the concern over my necessity of entering a "unique" social work program. I feel as though if I can work with a distinct population (such as adolescents, Native Peoples, etc...), or become certified in a certain type of therapy (such as pet therapy or play therapy), then it would be a rewarding path for me. But, I don't see myself in other social work roles like advocacy (unless it's for a reproductive rights organization) or writing grants and keeping an agency afloat. So I worry about a life course in social work. I don't see myself as a life-long case worker, and I know many social workers end up there. When my senior seminar brought in our past graduates to inspire us, I was left questioning my future. They were all in casework, none of them seemed excited. Most of their eyes were blood-shot and they spoke in these monotone voices. And these were the ones who were passionate about social work, knew it was what they wanted. It made me wonder how I would fare, being I've always allowed a thick line between myself and the potential social worker inside.

If I could become well-versed in behavioral neuroscience (let's shorten this to BNS) through a rigorous PhD program, I think I would love to remain in academia - teaching, researching, or both. I dedicated this last summer to hands-on research testing cognitive changes through computerized game play. I loved it! I'm addicted to higher education. I would love the opportunity to take my musings about human behavior and have a forum to test out theories and ideas. I would love the access to literature to answer my own questions if they've already been covered. Since I am uninterested in counseling (LPC-type work), I feel that a PhD is must. If I want counseling, I would most definitely pursue LCSW credentials through an MSW. I believe that the PhD would open the doors to knowledge, and I know that sounds very whimsical and naive, but I feel as though having such knowledge about human behavior, development and so forth would allow for opportunities both in academia and in the field working with patients/clients who have had traumatic brain injury. But, what holds me back is my questioning if I have it in me to pursue BNS and then if I do, will I even find work?

What I wish I could do is find some way to synthesize the two fields, ha, that would make life easier. But even my adviser said that social work remains one of the few areas that have not yet merged with neuroscience on a meaningful level. We also talked about the possibility of being a social worker who works with traumatic brain injury patients/clients, and I immediately told him I would never be able to do that. I don't think I could do the social work end of that type of work when I'm so interested in the work others would be doing around me with this population. I would rather help diagnose, discover which part of the brain has been injured, how it affects their functioning, and help them work towards rehabilitation. Based on my knowledge, if I took the social work route, I would help empower them to take charge of their new life changes and be a liaison between them and their families as well as government agencies and health professionals. I would not want that role in this case.

It says you're in a PhD, what are you hoping for in getting your PhD? I don't have much knowledge on why I should do this. Neither of my parents possess a college degree, so neither of them has much advice for me besides supportive remarks saying I should do it if it will make me happy. My step-father has a PhD in History, but he was unable to use it practically and went back and got a Masters in Library Science and now works in the library system of Michigan State University. So, his experience with it doesn't give me much of an idea either because of what he ended up doing in the end. Was it hard to decide to pursue History(-ish)? Did you have any reservations?

[Sparky]

Actually, my MA is in (historical) theology! It became very apparent VERY quickly (in the first semester, even) that I am a historian, rather than a theologian. It's just how I think, how I interact with the sources. I have from time to time thought I could find a place in a more religious studies-oriented dept, but my particular school is very classic (and hardcore, and wonderful) Theology with a capital T, so I really wouldn't fit. I did not go to grad school until I was certain that I want to teach. For me, teaching private high school or teaching college are equally desirable. There is absolutely NO guarantee that I will be able to find sustainable employment in either, even with PhD in hand. There is also absolutely no guarantee that I will make it that far.

A PhD is, essentially, a leap of faith. Yes, you know where you want to end up, but there is absolutely no guarantee that you will get there (among other things, only something like 50% of entering students will actually end up going all the way to the PhD!). EVERYONE has what's called "impostor syndrome," that is, an entrenched belief that we are not good enough, our work sucks, everyone else is better, clearly they are deluded in thinking we could possibly be part of their number and when they find out the truth they'll never talk to us again. It goes with the territory.

The only reservations I have had, ever, are this year as I read for exams. My dept is very, very old school in their approach to doctoral exams, and it is hell. It is pointless, time devouring, mind numbing, energy sapping, and INSANELY terrifying because what if I fail. There is a certain edge (in my mind) of "it would be better to quit so they don't have a chance to fail me" that is hard to shake. YMMV; not everyone has test anxiety as badly as I do, and most programs have comps setups that contain at least a *shred* of sanity.

You didn't ask about this, but just something you mentioned--pet therapy. You know, this is something you can get involved with as a volunteer, as long as you have a suitable animal. No, it's not a career, but if your dog has the temperment and you've got the time and patience for training, it could still be a good way to brush up against social work-ish stuff in your private life.

[mollyac11]

Wow! That does sound intense... but you seem like you really enjoy it, and that's really what counts isn't it? Your studies actually remind me of my boyfriend - he's wrapping up his undergraduate just like me, but he's doing a double-major in philosophy and education. However, he wants to teach history at the end of it all (high-school and then hopefully in higher education later on). That "imposter syndrome" is dead-on for me, but at least now I can label it and I guess I'm not alone. I consistently feel as though my A's in my classes are a fluke and that I'm really not that good at anything and that obviously everyone else has got a better handle on the material... And I've even had the thought about dropping out before they get to fail me as well!! What are the graduate school exams like? A few of my classmates who have graduated and have gone on to Master's programs in social work (mostly at Rutger's) haven't mentioned exams at all - just papers, papers, and more papers.

I hope you find work that is meaningful and what you want! That's what scares me as well. And knowing that my step-father went all the way to his PhD and found himself working in the sewage tanks of a hospital after completion is a little nerve-wracking. I feel like it could happen to anyone who gets their PhD... especially since so many PhD programs are not really well-suited for everyday work outside of higher education... Which is where social work becomes promising since we have a wide range of job opportunities.

As for doing volunteer work with pet-therapy, I don't have a dog. And with the personalities my cats possess, they would probably leave people in worse mental condition. They're very vengeful and spiteful cats that don't like being held or pet too long (I love them anyway! But, they wouldn't be very therapeutic to anyone besides me...). Although, I am in the process of getting involved in some volunteer work at a Transitional Living Program for runaway and homeless youth. I've also done two social work internships (one that I loved, and one that I loathed every second of...). But, that's what these next two years are going to be about... finding direction, getting ready for the "leap of faith" in either direction because if I don't pursue a PhD, the MSW is really necessary for work as a social worker if you want to make a half-decent living - it allows for greater licensing and therefor more opportunities as well as specialization. It's going to take a lot of soul searching... I've always been interested in different fields though. When I started college I wanted to be a park ranger then a corrections officer then a fuel manager (because of the crappy part time job I had as a gas attendant, I thought maybe it was all I could amount to at the time, lol). Now I'm questioning social work versus behavioral neuroscience! I love research, but not social work research. Honestly, I complicate my own life far too much.

So how far into the program are you? Research interests? Did you have to switch fully over to history, or do you still get to incorporate theology...? I'm intrigued - I really don't know anyone who pursuing a PhD nor do I have any resources besides my stepfather.

[Vader Was Framed]

Molly - I suggest you read Getting What You Came For: The Smart Student's Guide to Earning an M.A. or a Ph.D, by Peters.

It is a comprehensive resource while in graduate school, but the first few chapters cover the decision of even entertaining the idea of attending, admissions, jobs, etc. It has helped me greatly as I still decide whether to apply for PhD programs next season.

[mollyac11]

Awesome, I'll check that out - thank you! Any resource would be helpful! I was also thinking of ordering Graduate Study in Psychology by APA, maybe I can get them both from amazon.

I went to a wonderful "Graduate Study Panel" this evening, which was pretty enlightening. A couple of my school's psychology professors fielded questions from the group of students, it was quite enlightening. I also finally got a chance to talk to my social work advisor briefly, and I'll be speaking with a neutral party in the general academic advising office tomorrow. One of the professors recommended I write down all of the occupations I would be interested in on flash cards and then research how to get into each job and add them to the back, which I thought was a pretty neat idea.

[MoJingly]

From my experience, it's really hard to get a good handle on what you want to do before you try something out. You can read and read and research and ask and read and read and ponder, but you have to wear the shoes before you know if they fit right.

I tried to know exactly what I wanted before I got into graduate school, but that is not easy. Remember what it was like when you were in high school trying to digest the college experience? You'd look up to the ledge and imagine what your experience will be and how you will go about it, but nothing is really clear until you get up there and look around.

Things get clearer as you move forward. I'm not sure if this will work for you, but try to find someplace with strong psychology and social work programs. Use the fact that you love both and make a unique calling for yourself. Chances are, you will find out that one is a better "fit" than the other.

I chose my grad program because it was really flexible in allowing me to explore my options before I made a decision. I ended up in a different direction than I predicted, and I am really happy! You're doing good research, so keep at it. And keep us posted! Best of luck to you.

[mollyac11]

That's a good point.. I had no idea what to expect when I started college. I went through that twice actually, because I did two years of community college and then transferred to a four year school. They're two different worlds. Trying a school with both is definitely not a bad idea. Do schools generally allow you to switch programs once you're accepted? If I did that, I would definitely start with the psychology first, since I already have a taste of social work. It would be easier for me to switch if I wanted counseling psychology, hopefully I could still switch from a biopsych. track to social work.

The whole thing is absolutely terrifying. There really is no way of knowing what to expect, no matter how many professors you talk to! What did you originally want to do, and what is that you ended up doing??

I will most definitely keep everyone posted! I've already made some steps in finding out more... It looks like I'll be heading back to community college after graduation to do some anatomy and physiology courses and chemistry so if I choose the biospsych path I'll have a more scientific background.

[Mandalpaca]

I am a Registered Nurse and have worked in public health with social workers. They love their job but will tell you the pay is horrible and the job emotionally draining. My suggestion is to actually speak with people already working in the 2 fields you are interested in. I am a strong believer that you must love what you do but it also has to pay the bills. Just reading your posts -it seems you are more passionate about the psychology path. Good luck - you'll make the right decision.

[SocialWorkerMatt]

Hi, mollyac11---

 

This was something I struggled with for a long time. I had worked in legal publishing, and for a year, I toyed with the idea of going to law school. I had developed a deep appreciation for the law and complexities of our legal system, and an application to law school seemed like a logical next step. So I did a ton of research. I found that, 1---I would, indeed, love to study the law, and 2---I would probably hate being a lawyer. I interviewed friends, friends of the family, and people online, and I only found a few people who actually *enjoyed* being lawyers. A few people loved it (I found one constitutional lawyer who was very passionate about what she did), but most people hated the stress of the occupation---and after some rumination, I figured I would probably feel the same way.

 

My advice would be to ask around---much like you're doing here. If I hadn't done the legwork and given it some serious thought, I'd have made an expensive decision that would have been burdensome to me. Gather as much info as you can, and figure out what will make you happiest (haha---and also consider that income is correlated to happiness!).

 

As for me, I got my masters in social work (hence the handle), and I'm pretty confident I made the right choice. The field is stressful in ways that are a little different than a lawyer would face, but I feel like I'm in the right place (even though the pay is... not great). At the end of the day, I feel like I've contributed to the community, even if it is only in very small ways. If you want to read more about the different fields of social work, I've put together a guide that might help.

 

Good luck, mollyac11! I'm sure most of the people on this forum were once wading through the same decisions you're making now.

[nugget]

I was in a similar situation to yourself for close to two years. I
went back and forth between becoming an educational/career counsellor
and a social worker. I found that volunteer work and internships gave
me more insight into which career would be more suitable for me. I
also researched the job market and job prospects for graduates of each
of these programs and made my decision based on all of these factors.
(Since I did an undergrad degree in a field with a weak job market, I
believe that fit means nothing if the job market is weak and it is not
likely one will find work in a given field).

I ended up applying to programs in both areas to increase my number of
opportunities to attend grad school and to keep both options open in
case I changed my mind somewhere along the way.

During the application process, I wrote so many letters of interest
which required a lot of soul searching about my career goals and
interests. In the end, writing my letters of interest helped me to see
which of the two options I preferred the most.

I strongly recommend considering cost and length of programs vs.
salary potential given that some programs in the US are quite costly.
But based on what you are written so far, it seems to me that
psychology most closely fits your interests.

[nugget]

Weird. I'm not sure why my post had such narrow margins??