Oxford vs UC Davis?

[PieMonster]

Hello all,

I am a Master's student in Ottoman history at an English-speaking University in Turkey. I am applying to a few History PhD programs in the US and UK. My doctoral study will be funded by the university where I am currently working as Research Assistant.

I definetely want to work with a Professor at UC Davis. I met him in Istanbul, he is versed, helpful, well-known and thus has a large network. Athough he is just at his 40's, he wrote 3 path-breaking books, as well as many articles, so far. Plus, his research interests are really similar to mine. However, Davis has only 3 historians of the Middle East, and thus its library seems to have a weak collection of the Middle Eastern history.

UC Davis was my top choice until I received a positive reply to my e-mail from an Oxford Professor saying that he was impressed with my preparedness for doctoral study at Oxford. Considering UK schools tend to accept students with their own funding due to scarcity of their funding sources, it seems that I may have a chance in getting into there. This Professor is a historian of the Arab world whose work coincides with Ottoman history, rather than a typical Ottomanist. Oxford has a great collection of the Middle Eastern history and is home to more than 20 researchers in a sub-field of the Middle east studies.

Here is the question that makes me confused. Oxford has a big name, ranked 3rd globally, whereas UC Davis is as yet little known. Does that mean an Oxford PhD will help more than a Davis one in job market? What is the long run pros and cons of choosing UC Davis?

Does anyone know something about the PhD program at Davis?

Thanks for any advice and comment in advance.

[CageFree]

I'm at UC Davis. Feel free to PM me for specifics

[Safferz]

Here is the question that makes me confused. Oxford has a big name, ranked 3rd globally, whereas UC Davis is as yet little known. Does that mean an Oxford PhD will help more than a Davis one in job market?

Yes. There's really no comparison here.

[PieMonster]

Thanks, Safferz, I do not know know why but I was expecting for an opposite answer emphasizing the insignificancy of the school name

CageFree, I sent you a message, thanks for your help.

[virmundi]

You need to be more specific about which job market you are talking about. In the U.S. job market, a degree from U.C. Davis is not necessarily a weakness compared to a degree from Oxford. I was specifically and directly warned by many scholars in my field about the risks of trying to get a job in the U.S. right out of a U.K. Ph.D. program. It can be done -- but it is by no means a slam-dunk because U.K. degrees do not easily map onto U.S. degrees (and teaching experience matters a lot more in the U.S.) and your letters of recommendation play a very important role as well. A scholar from U.C. Davis who is well known and well-regarded here in the States would get you much further than an Oxford professor whose work is less familiar and who hasn't been traveling the same conference circuit for years on end.

With that said, you also need to consider which scholar and institution will ultimately best further *your* research. Having 20 scholars of the Middle East means very little if they are all doing things that are different enough from you that they might as well be working on 19th century U.S. history. Having the *right three scholars* at U.C. Davis would be more valuable than having 20 at Oxford who are only a mediocre fit.

Obviously, if you are aiming for the job market in Turkey, than Oxford is the bigger name. Of course, it will still come down to the quality of your work. Sounds like the U.C. Davis professor might well be a great fit for you as an advisor, whereas the Oxford prof. isn't as sure of a thing. Can the Oxford professor and the other professors out there be good enough guides to match the expertise and level of in-born interest that the individual at Davis will bring to the table?

These are all important considerations. Obviously, Oxford is, on the face of it, a stronger contender than U.C. Davis, but I would suggest that you think very carefully about this before you make a commitment.

[PieMonster]

Virmundi, thanks, you helped a lot! After finishing my PhD degree, I will actually have to work for my current institution in Turkey for 6 to 8 years. This is to pay what they spent for me. However, since it is a school where I don't plan to spend all my career, I will be looking for a better one, probably again in Turkey. Given that, yes, Oxford is definetely the bigger name having even a magical name here. It is an object of jokes regarding education, like "did not we study there while Oxford was here?"

And yes, the UC Davis Professor is a great fit as an advisor. But the Oxford Professor is also a popular name among the historians of the Middle East. He is an American with a Harvard PhD, not-great-but-ok fit. The reason I am leaning into Davis is I am just sure about helpfullness and personality of the UC Davis Prof. as I have met him before. I care advisor-advisee relationship too much since I have a bad experience of it at the school where I am finishing my Master's. In this regard, I think that I should try to develop a further communication with the Oxford Professor too.

As a result, I will apply to both and decide after results were announced.

Thanks for your comment.

Edited December 4, 2012 by PieMonster

[virmundi]

Virmundi, thanks, you helped a lot! After finishing my PhD degree, I will actually have to work for my current institution in Turkey for 6 to 8 years. This is to pay what they spent for me. However, since it is a school where I don't plan to spend all my career, I will be looking for a better one, probably again in Turkey. Given that, yes, Oxford is definetely the bigger name having even a magical name here. It is an object of jokes regarding education, like "did not we study there while Oxford was here?"

And yes, the UC Davis Professor is a great fit as an advisor. But the Oxford Professor is also a popular name among the historians of the Middle East. He is an American with a Harvard PhD, not-great-but-ok fit. The reason I am leaning into Davis is I am just sure about helpfullness and personality of the UC Davis Prof. as I have met him before. I care advisor-advisee relationship too much since I have a bad experience of it at the school where I am finishing my Master's. In this regard, I think that I should try to develop a further communication with the Oxford Professor too.

As a result, I will apply to both and decide after results were announced.

Thanks for your comment.

You are most welcome. Applying to both is a wonderful idea. If you get into one and not the other, the decision is an easy one. It's getting into both that is a "problem" -- but what a wonderful problem that would be to have, right? I suppose that in some regard, if you are guaranteed to have a position for 6-8 years after your completion, it makes sense for you to go with whichever institution will offer you the best overall experience and the best boost to your research agenda...! It is also certainly not out of the question for you to go to Oxford and try to see if you can have the professor from Davis as a reader on your dissertation. That is quite common here in the U.S., although I'm not sure how common that is in the U.K.

In any case, best of luck with this process!