How Bad is an A-?

[DontHate]

I have a physical recommendation letter from a professor that was meant for a school that I ended up not applying to. So now I just have it, sitting here in my room. I stare at this envelope almost constantly, dreaming about what is inside. Does it say I am the smartest human being ever? Quite possibly.

I have made a little shrine for the letter, right next to my bookshelf. I visit this shrine at least twice a day: when I wake up and before I go to sleep. It strengthens me.

If I get into my dream school, I will immediately tear this letter open and read it. If I get rejected everywhere, I will burn it....

 

 

you crack me up and I love you

[bluecheese]

I don't know, the form rejection isn't going to hurt you. It just isn't going to help you much. I've been asked to write 6 recommendations for various things from teaching last semester (including two for graduate school). I can imagine how many instructors who teach multiple sections are asked to write. I'm sure some of them end up being form-ish by default, simply because of a lack of time. I didn't do that, but yeah... a couple of the students didn't give me much to go off of, so their recommendations ended up being rather generic stuff about their performance in class. I don't think that is going to hurt them.

[asleepawake]

I think it's different for a student applying to grad school, though. Presumably you teach comp and wrote letters for things like RA jobs and undergrad transfers, yes? I've written a number of these, even one for a student who came up to me after class with the letter form and said "Fill this out by thursday." I think these letters are less serious than letters for grad school, where the people on the adcom know that they or their collogues will be working very closely with you for a long time.

 

I'm always skeptical when people brag about their "amazing letters" because, uh, unless you read them, you really don't know what they say. I always prefer to err on the side of IDFK. I think these people like me but AHHHH what if they harbor secret reservations? 

 

Edit: 

 

including two for graduate school

 

 I fail at reading comprehension today. 

Edited January 13, 2013 by asleepawake

[DontHate]

I think letters can be called "amazing" based on WHO is writing them, and what kind of relationship you have with that person. If you're tight with a professor, you can be fairly sure what the tone of the letter will be.

[bluecheese]

I taught and upper-division creative writing course this past semester. The rec letters were for internships, scholarships, and grad school (MFA/Education MA).

[asleepawake]

I think letters can be called "amazing" based on WHO is writing them, and what kind of relationship you have with that person. If you're tight with a professor, you can be fairly sure what the tone of the letter will be.

 

I guess. Maybe I just don't get the bragging/boasting about one's work attitude at ALL,not just in LORs. When people say they have a "killer writing sample," for example, I immediately think: What makes you say that? You have no idea what other writing samples look like, so even if you know you turned in good work, it just seems arrogant/delusional/etc to declare anything ~~amazing~~ if it doesn't have a percentile attached. 

Edited January 13, 2013 by asleepawake

[DontHate]

I guess. Maybe I just don't get the bragging/boasting about one's work attitude at ALL,not just in LORs. When people say they have a "killer writing sample," for example, I immediately think: What makes you say that? You have no idea what other writing samples look like, so even if you know your turned in good work, it just seems arrogant/delusional/etc to declare anything ~~amazing~~ if it doesn't have a percentile attached. 

 

Well I don't disagree with you. I personally have no faith at all in my writing sample, I don't even know what that would feel like. Maybe if it had won an award or something, I'd feel like it was "killer." Short of that, getting an A on a paper seems pretty meaningless. I don't know what makes a sample good anyway.

[asleepawake]

I taught and upper-division creative writing course this past semester. The rec letters were for internships, scholarships, and grad school (MFA/Education MA).

Yeah, I see I missed some obvious reference to that in you last post.

I do think these letters hurt students, even if only by virtue of "not helping." Anything that doesn't help is a hinderance. However, you have to write a letter that you're comfortable writing, and it is on of students to figure out who can write their best letters. Coming out of undergrad, I probably only had one very strong letter and two that might have been more ~meh~. I wasn't that close to many professor, but aha! I managed.

[bluecheese]

Yeah, if you want someone to write a rec letter you should make an effort to meet with them once or twice over the semester you're taking a class with them. I mean, I think this is the minimum.

 

Also, in those cases where I didn't add much detail...  students didn't give me the appropriate documents requested for the letter (c.v., resume, statement of purpose, etc.) so it was hard to stretch their class performance out into a wider picture.

 

I don't think it will hurt them that bad. Often students come from universities that are primarily oriented toward large lecture courses where close contact with professors is limited. In these cases it is hard for students to get that intimate of rec letters... even if they are outstanding students.

 

Edit: I know that I have stellar recommendations. I'm actually pretty close with all of my recommenders, so I know that they're going to be good. The only problem being, two of them are from creative writers (the other is from a major scholar, and it is 3 pages long on interfolio and she kept emailing me questions while writing it).

 

That said, I feel very skeptical of my writing sample.

Edited January 13, 2013 by bluecheese

[MediaAmbition]

I know we've talked some about British grading on here, but how familiar do you think adcomms are with it? I saw one US school's conversion table say that 70+ was an A, 60-70 was a B, 50-60 was a C. To me this is way harsh (to use Clueless parlance). I would say 65-70 is an A-, 60-65 is a B/+, etc.

I guess I'm just worried how my graduate grades will translate. Urgh.

 

I think it also matters in the end what you got? And the scales seem different based on undergrad and grad level UK, I've only seen undergrad conversions. My UK uni, the MA program you could Fail, Pass, Pass with Merit, or Pass with Distinction. A Merit was 65+, a Distinction 70+, High Distinction 75+. I think as you said earlier, some higher up schools are tough graders so maybe it is better to get a Merit at a very good uni than a 4.0/Distinction at a so-so place. I saw with London School of Economics PhD programs, they said to only apply if you already have a Merit in the Masters. Curious to see how it all translates and matters in the end.

[Deadinthewater]

you crack me up and I love you

It's a shame we're not applying to any of the same places

[uromastyx]

3.5 is typically satisfactory, while 3.75 is the preferred number.

[pomoisdead]

I tend to believe numbers, at this level, mean next to nothing. Programs ask for them because they have to...at least to maintain a sense of credibility in our grading system. I double majored as an undergrad and, thus, my GPA was a terrible 3.16. My ENG degree GPA was like a 3.75 and my Poli Sci was around 3.0. But do they break that down on your transcripts? Do they give these explanation about how people grade, and scale numbers, etc? Nope...Numbers are numbers, mostly meant in a universal capacity.

 

And even, look at the credibility of GRE scores anymore. Something interesting to note is when people post their numbers on the results forum how, despite huge differences, there is no pattern. Not everyone with a 4.0 and 700+ GRE subject scores gets in...nor does a 5.5 or 6.0 on the writing portion much matter. I see people with 4 out of 6 on their writing portion and 3.5 GPA's getting in everywhere!

 

My 4.0 from my MFA is worthless...I'm also not discouraged with the 530 subject score because, oddly enough, I've been teaching literature for 4 years now at the collegiate level.

 

You're an investment...a walking dollar sign. Whether you get in or not is based, highly, on your potential. If you're a 4.0, 700+, 6 of 6 writing sample person, good for you! But these programs want personality. They want someone who is going to make their program thrive, not just exist.

 

Grades are meaningless...just don't get too many B's.

[lewisthesamteenth]

Great post, pomoisdead. There really is no conceptual graduate student for any given program; the fact that there are always exceptions to the rules indicates that the rules themselves don't really exist. Granted, it might be difficult to find your way into a top-10 if you have a 2.5 and 150s GREs, but if you're applying to these programs on more than just a whim, chances are that you have prepared sufficiently.

We should not understand rejections as a school's telling us, "You're not good enough," but rather that we do not quite make the right match. The porridge of the three bears is the same substance; Goldilocks simply chooses what she prefers, that which meets her standard of taste. Some of us are too hot, others too cold, but there are programs out there that will find us juuuuuuuust right!, and will satisfy themselves by swallowing us up in one great big gulp.

Bottom line: make your sacrifices to Zeus. He's got your back.

[Porridge]

I'm bumping this thread. My biggest fear is that, at graduate level, my GPA will be insufficient, I will unmasked as an imposter, and I will be dismissed from the program.

[Ategenos]

I'm bumping this thread. My biggest fear is that, at graduate level, my GPA will be insufficient, I will unmasked as an imposter, and I will be dismissed from the program.

 

 

From my experience thus far at the graduate level (Masters work), hard work, a spark of creativity, and a willingness to accept and adapt to criticism are all you need to do well. If your application convinced the department, then you're almost certainly good enough. The people I've seen start to flag at the graduate level are the ones who don't quite do enough work, who coasted to a degree during their undergrad, and who can't shake this trend as they move onwards and upwards... and the ones who are so enamoured of their own views that they refuse input and refute the notion of their fallibility.

 

Then there's the worst kind: the ones who combine both these flaws. Brrrr.

 

Luckily, imposter syndrome is usually seen in the sort of students who are neither of these types, so you're probably okay.

[asleepawake]

From my experience thus far at the graduate level (Masters work), hard work, a spark of creativity, and a willingness to accept and adapt to criticism are all you need to do well... and the ones who are so enamoured of their own views that they refuse input and refute the notion of their fallibility.

 

Yup. No joke. I know a number of perfectly capable people who struggle in part because they cannot or will not listen to criticism. They prefer to be given endless praise, and when that doesn't happen they really struggle. Don't do this. You've been let into grad school to learn. Do that and you'll be fine. It can't be possible that we're all impostors. Right...? 

[bluecheese]

We're definitely all impostors -- that's the only thing I feel sure of.

 

To complicate things a little, faculty will often have conflicting opinions about which way you should take your work -- there is the problem of who to take advice from.... but, yeah, being open to advice is important.

[asleepawake]

We're definitely all impostors -- that's the only thing I feel sure of.

 

To complicate things a little, faculty will often have conflicting opinions about which way you should take your work -- there is the problem of who to take advice from.... but, yeah, being open to advice is important.

 

Well, I guess I do feel better if I'm not the ONLY imposter.

 

That's certainly true about faculty opinions. I didn't mean to suggest you should yield to every piece of feedback from every reader, but you need to be ready to hear things other than "you're brilliant." This sounds obvious, but I don't think it always is. I've seen too many people just decide that a faculty member hates them than be willing to accept that their work isn't perfect (not that the former cannot happen, of course).

Edited February 22, 2013 by asleepawake