Specific program with POI - how much does it matter?

[iowaguy]

If a POI is affiliated with several graduate programs at a University (for example, Ecology, Environmental Science, and Environmental Engineering), how much does the actual program matter that you apply to?

 

I applied to Program X.  My POI emailed me to suggest that I move my application to Program Y (he is affiliated with both) as he thinks he has a better chance of securing funding for me (and therefore sponsoring my admission) if I'm in Program Y.  I would be doing the same research either way, and basically the same coursework (I think there are a couple of required classes in each program but otherwise can take whatever courses are best suited for your dissertation research).

 

Thoughts?

[ttgrad]

Unless you have any personal or specific reason for wanting to do the exact program that you applied to then I'd say you should shift the application. For one, it seems that you are more certain about getting a funded offer that way. Also, from your description it seems that the programs basically differ in name only. I'd say go for it!

[fuzzylogician]

If you want a career in academia, what will matter more is your research. The department you're officially affiliated with is less important, especially if you end up taking pretty much the same courses. In that case you could make a convincing argument to the effect of being an X-scholar and being able to teach the same courses as you would if you had gone to the other program. If you want to go into industry as an X-specialist, you may have a harder time convincing employers that you are indeed an X-specialist despite graduating from a Y-program. I don't know how much of an issue this is, since you didn't specify the fields and it probably would also depend on other anecdotal issues that are hard to control for. I suppose the question you should ask your professor is how his students do on the job market once they graduate so you can learn if there are implications to being affiliated with Y rather than X. All things being equal, go where the funding is.

[Angua]

Your advisor and your research will almost certainly be more important than the label on your degree. If this POI is someone you would want to work with, do as he suggests! :-)

[juilletmercredi]

^What everyone else said!

[VBD]

How about a twist on the original prompt?

I emailed a POI asking about his research in program x. He responded back with enthusiasm and wanted to talk to me over the phone. In the same email, almost as an addendeum, he noted that it is competitive for program X since they only accept a small number of students per year. He indicated that he is affiliated with programs y and z and referred me to look at them. Programs y and Z would force me to take "core" grad courses in fields in which I am completely clueless. Furthermore, if this POI didn't work out (down the road), I would have no aligning interests with other faculty in programs y and z. He didn't mention funding, so I'm not sure if he had other reasons to refer other programs...So additional thoughts?

Edited January 13, 2013 by VBD

[iowaguy]

VBD - it seems like in our field (conservation/environmental stuff) there is quite a bit of overlap and general fuzziness of where one discipline starts and another begins.  Here is what my old MS advisor had to say about the dilemma of which program to choose when a given POI is affiliated with multiple programs:

 

"Unless the two programs have the same level of financial support, I always recommend that students go with the program that provides the best financial support.  Usually employers don’t care about the exact title of the degree – they look at what courses you took and the topic of your dissertation.  And your letter of application for a job will discuss the areas that you emphasized and relate them to the job description – so it’s not critical whether you choose x or y.  But it is critical that you get the best support that you can."

 

However, in your case where you would be taking some "core" classes outside your interest/expertise, I would personally start to get concerned.  You would, of course, be expected to do well on those courses and material from those courses would likely show up on your qualifying exams (since they're "core" classes).  And not having a backup POI could potentially be an issue.  Maybe you can feel out your POI during your phone conversation to see what the pros/cons are of choosing program x, y, or z (beyond the competitiveness of the application process)...

[VBD]

I was definitely similarly concerned about the classes and lack of a back-up POI. We do have a phone conversation/interview planned, and formal interview invites from the program can come in 2 weeks or so (so says the results survey) so I will have at least one (hopefully two) opportunity to "feel" out the pros/cons of the three different programs. I was not, however, sure how to personally tell him and decline his suggestion of changing programs. Thanks for the advice.

[lypiphera]

I actually have a different opinion on this matter than some of the other posters here.  I emailed a professor I wanted to work with who was in both the Psychology and Business schools.  He said he doesn't accept people through psychology (which is what I am going into), but that if I applied to him through the business school, I would be doing the same kind of social psychology work (but would get paid more in the future if I taught in business school).  Even if the coursework were the same as well (which I don't think it would be in this case), I knew that I wanted me degree to be in my area of interested, which is psychology.  I would not want a degree to list me as a business student, because even if the research overlaps, that's not what I identify with.  It might be a different story if the two areas were closer (e.g. sociology and social psychology), but I still don't think I would have done it.  If Program X is your passion and what you plan to continue in, I would think you'd want your degree to reflect that, even if Program Y offers more chance of funding.

[iowaguy]

Let me follow your logic here.  You don't want to be identified with the business school, even though you would be doing the same kind of social psychology work (and would even get paid more, which I would consider a bonus).  Furthermore, this would be the only way you could work with this particular professor, and the funding would be better.

 

Why does it matter what you "identify with", if the research is exactly the same?  How exactly does identifying with the Business School affect your future prospects differently than identifying with the Psychology School?

[lypiphera]

Let me follow your logic here.  You don't want to be identified with the business school, even though you would be doing the same kind of social psychology work (and would even get paid more, which I would consider a bonus).  Furthermore, this would be the only way you could work with this particular professor, and the funding would be better.

 

Why does it matter what you "identify with", if the research is exactly the same?  How exactly does identifying with the Business School affect your future prospects differently than identifying with the Psychology School?

 

Hi Iowaguy,

 

I could be wrong about this part, but since I plan to continue my career in psychology academia, I would think that the degree would affect my future prospects.  When I apply for professor jobs psychology departments, I would think they would be more likely to consider a person with a PhD in Social Psychology as opposed to a PhD in Management and Organization.  

 

In addition, the coursework is completely different. From the business department's website:  "Courses are designed for prospective general managers and specialists in these fields. Those seeking career opportunities in human resource/personnel departments in the private, public and not-for-profit sectors as well as in corporations, labor unions, consulting firms and the government will benefit from the educational courses that the Management and Organizations area can provide."   So while the research work may be very similar, the coursework (which may not be the focus of graduate school but certainly still matters) would be quite far form my area of expertise and not designed to help in my career path.

 

As for funding, I don't know if their graduate funding is any better than psychology (probably is), but the difference in pay would be if I ended up teaching at business school instead of in psychology.  Again, my main interest and passion is psychology, so that's not the path I want to take.  While it's a shame that I couldn't work with that professor, there are others I fit with housed in psychology departments.

 

I hope that helps explain my reasoning more.  I think it really depends on the situation - this is my personal experience but it may be a completely different situation for the OP, where it would make sense to go to program Y. 

[iowaguy]

OK, your logic makes sense.  In the OP, I was thinking of a scenario where the coursework would be pretty much the same (in some programs that I'm looking at, the coursework is exactly the same, chosen by me, and only the name of the program is different).

 

Your scenario sounds like 2 completely different programs, not just a difference in name only...