Harvard or Michigan?

[flyinglion]

well, admitted into EdD program at HGSE and combined program in psych and edu at Michigan...but difficult to choose offers...

1. financial:

UM gives 5 years of full funding; H gives very minimal money..definitely need to re-apply for money every year and need to work a lot to support myself.

2. advisor:

both are very kind and nice persons, they make me feel comfortable talking with them.

UM one is a senior one;

3. mutual interest:

both are partially related...

well, my interest is kind of in the cross field of cognitive development and educational psych...

any advice?

Thank you so much!

[dramanda]

First off - congratulations. These are both excellent schools!

I'd say Michigan. I think the funding issue is pivotal, especially if you intend to go directly into a faculty/research position after graduation. Second, the fact that the Michigan program is jointly run by the School of Education and the Department of Psychology leaves more options open post-graduation IMO. You could apply for positions in both sorts of departments after graduation, which is a huge plus given the current academic job market. Also, although Harvard is obviously a well-recognized name, I have a problem with EdD degrees. Perhaps the "Harvard" bit will negate this, but EdD degrees do not seem to be as highly regarded as PhDs, even within the field of education. Again, if your ultimate goal is a faculty position, think carefully about this.

In any event, I'm sure you'll enjoy your time at either institution. Good luck!

[dirkduck]

Congratulations on the offers! Based on what you said, I would go for UM, primarially with the full funding. As long as you have been guaranteed the funding for the 5 years, as who knows how much more funding will be cut in Michigan (in particular) with the economic situation.

On a side note, I also applied to CPEP, but have still not heard anything. I've been under the assumption for the last couple months that this meant rejected. Did you hear anything about notifications when you were told of your acceptance?

[flyinglion]

thank you dramanda and dirkduck!

The harvard name just shocked me, but their funding, and that "EdD" pulled me back to earth... Thanks for advice!

and for dirkduck,

for UM, I received a phone interview with the potential advisor in Jan, and he kept me posted after the interview. Seems they already have the recruits to visit the campus, but I didnt come b/c I'm international student... I think u can check the status through their webpage? here's the link http://wolverineaccess.umich.edu/

[dirkduck]

Thanks for the info flyinglion. My decision status has been the standard UM " A decision has been made. Your program of application will inform you of the decision." for at least a couple of weeks now (and possibly a while before that), so I think they are just taking their time in getting rejections sent out!

[FloydMurray]

thank you dramanda and dirkduck!

The harvard name just shocked me, but their funding, and that "EdD" pulled me back to earth... Thanks for advice!

and for dirkduck,

for UM, I received a phone interview with the potential advisor in Jan, and he kept me posted after the interview. Seems they already have the recruits to visit the campus, but I didnt come b/c I'm international student... I think u can check the status through their webpage? here's the link http://wolverineaccess.umich.edu/

Congratulations Flyinglion!

Have you decided which school you're going to accept admission for?

[michigan girl]

Just for the record, a Harvard Ed.D is equivalent to a PhD at other education schools. Harvard has this institutional policy that only the Faculty of Arts and Sciences can grant Ph.D. degrees. There is nothing "inferior" about the Harvard Ed.D. However, as everyone stated, I think Michigan (promise of full funding and strong job placement) is the better choice.

[nu_wildcat]

Congrats on your acceptances!

I think I'd consider the opportunity costs of each school. Even though you would maybe have to take out loans at Harvard, look carefully at their job placements. Are they getting stellar jobs or similar positions to UM graduates? Your advisors could tell you where their past graduate students are working. One of my professors told me I should conisder what kinds of jobs the graduates are getting and if they are getting jobs at the top schools/research institutes (which means they are probably making more money than you would at other jobs). I'm sure the graduates of Harvard and Michigan are able to get jobs, but what kind of job do you hope to get? If you are considering industry jobs, like think tanks, as well as academia, you might want to ask if graduates have been hired at places like Mathematica or RAND.

You might even want to consider where you would rather live. It's 4-5 years of your life. Also, would you want to buy a car if you went to Michigan?

Is re-applying to funding at Harvard just a formality? I'd ask if people ever lose funding or if re-applying is just for administrative purposes. It might just be a minor hassle. Do students receive more funding as they progress in the program? Your advisor can probably answer those questions.

[ZeChocMoose]

This thread was started in March 2009. I doubt it is a concern for the OP anymore...

[wildviolet]

Perhaps the "Harvard" bit will negate this, but EdD degrees do not seem to be as highly regarded as PhDs, even within the field of education.

It depends. Linda Darling-Hammond, arguably one of the most distinguished scholars in education today, received her EdD in Urban Education from Temple University.

[wildviolet]

This thread was started in March 2009. I doubt it is a concern for the OP anymore...

LOL. Funny how old threads get picked up.

[Durrell]

Pick Michigan. Definitely. Harvard is ending the EdD and this year will be the last cohort. Once the PhD version of the program begins, which will be very different, the EdD cohorts will see the focus on their training and the value of their degree go way down.

[michigan girl]

Durrell, what is the source for your claim? I have never heard of Harvard ending its Ed.D program. Their Ed.D is the equivalent of a Ph.D (research-based) whereas the Ed.L.D. is the practice-based degree.

Edited March 22, 2012 by michigan girl

[Durrell]

It's common knowledge that Harvard is ending its EdD program:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/3/7/faculty-lovefest-meeting-education/

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/doctoral-response-to-the-announcement-of-the-new/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=button

[db2290]

as a current Ed.D student at HGSE, I can confirm that it is highly likely the Ed.D will be discontinued (although contrary to Durrell, there will be two more intakes before this happens). If anyone would like info about the program, feel free to PM me.

[FreedomInEducation]

It's common knowledge that Harvard is ending its EdD program:

http://www.thecrimso...ting-education/

http://www.ipetition...campaign=button

Thanks for the articles. The two paragraphs that I pulled out below should be a call to action for everyone who is attending grad school next year. Things need to change.

"Although he thought the proposal was “profoundly meditated and finely engineered,” Simpson suggested that sub-par educational quality in the United States may actually be a product of the rise of schools of education.

"“My question is a big, bold, blunt question,” he said. “How do we account for the fact that the institutes of education have been around for 40 years, precisely in conjunction with the decline in education [quality]?”"

[michigan girl]

"“My question is a big, bold, blunt question,” he said. “How do we account for the fact that the institutes of education have been around for 40 years, precisely in conjunction with the decline in education [quality]?”"

This statement is ridiculous. The emergence of education schools did not lead to a decline in educational quality. What caused the decline is a policy shift from an emphasis in access/achievement (in the 1960s and 1970s) to an emphasis in accountability and other controversial measures (since the 1980s) that continue to ignore three factors: poverty, institutional racism and structural inequality. As long as these so-called educators--ironically, many have little-to-no classroom experience--ignore these factors and continue their war against middle-class communities, little progress will occur in K-12 education.

I am an aspiring higher education professional, but even I can see the flaw in Simpson's statement.

[FreedomInEducation]

This statement is ridiculous. The emergence of education schools did not lead to a decline in educational quality. What caused the decline is a policy shift from an emphasis in access/achievement (in the 1960s and 1970s) to an emphasis in accountability and other controversial measures (since the 1980s) that continue to ignore three factors: poverty, institutional racism and structural inequality. As long as these so-called educators--ironically, many have little-to-no classroom experience--ignore these factors and continue their war against middle-class communities, little progress will occur in K-12 education.

I am an aspiring higher education professional, but even I can see the flaw in Simpson's statement.

I agree, it is ridiculous to blame ed schools for the failings of public education. He should have just pointed out that they did little to nothing to stem the decline.

Edited March 27, 2012 by FreedomInEducation

[Dizzi]

I agree, it is ridiculous to blame ed schools for the failings of public education. He should have just pointed out that they did little to nothing to stem the decline.

My colleague's wife was at that meeting. The HGSE Dean essentially told him he was an idiot. Also, he's an English professor, i.e. someone with no connection to the proposed program (or the GSE in general).

Durrell, what is the source for your claim? I have never heard of Harvard ending its Ed.D program. Their Ed.D is the equivalent of a Ph.D (research-based) whereas the Ed.L.D. is the practice-based degree.

The Ed.D. at Harvard is currently the equivalent of a Ph.D. program, since there's no other (research) doctoral degree in Education at Harvard. The new Ph.D. will be replacing the Ed.D., but it's highly unlikely that they're going to just give Ph.D.s to all current Ed.D. students if they happen to graduate after 2013-14.

[FreedomInEducation]

My colleague's wife was at that meeting. The HGSE Dean essentially told him he was an idiot. Also, he's an English professor, i.e. someone with no connection to the proposed program (or the GSE in general).

Well, if the HGSE Dean told him he was an idiot I guess that settles it, right? :-/

[Dizzi]

Well, if the HGSE Dean told him he was an idiot I guess that settles it, right? :-/

I guess so! Apparently the rest of the faculty stopped paying attention to the guy after that. (She didn't actually say that - just made it clear that the guy knew basically nothing about education history or even how to separate correlation from causation, I think.)